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Union strike in a dual union school

  • 17-01-2020 02:57PM
    #1
    dory
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,637 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Anyone know what protocol is here? We have 60+ teachers. Only one jumped ship back when ASTI members were being penalised and had their increment delayed.

    And now TUI are on strike and that person will have to strike alone. :rolleyes:

    What do the rest of us do? It's during the Pre exams, would be a disaster if we had to postpone them for one teacher. Would have been so much better and effective if they had gone on strike the same time as ASTI!


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Comments

  • #2
    RealJohn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    It would be awful to delay the mocks to show solidarity with our lesser paid colleagues, alright.
    If they’re picketing, which they should be, you don’t pass the picket.


  • #3
    Sabella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭Sabella


    Is this strike not planned the same day as the JCT cluster day or is that school specific, do teachers attend that CPD?


  • #4
    km79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,429 ✭✭✭✭km79


    RealJohn wrote: »
    It would be awful to delay the mocks to show solidarity with our lesser paid colleagues, alright.
    If they’re picketing, which they should be, you don’t pass the picket.

    Our lesser paid colleagues left the ASTI, joined the TUI,crossed the picket and left us out in the cold for them
    The vast majority then returned with no penalty

    There may still be one or two remaining in TUI
    My guess is they just won’t picket
    Sure who would know anyway.........
    Maybe they will picket with the TUI school down the road but I wouldn’t count on it
    They didn’t want to lose a days pay before so why would they now


  • #5
    Random sample
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭Random sample


    Will the asti tell members not to cross the picket line in a mixed school?

    I am hoping they will give us guidance rather than leaving us to figure out for ourselves not to do so.

    When asti were on strike, out principal closed the school, so tui members and non union members did not have to make a choice.


  • #6
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    The TUI member is required to picket at their own workplace only and cannot join another school's picket. The local branch officers travel around to each school to check the picket so it will be known if they don't picket. I doubt this school will close if there's only one person picketing.


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  • #7
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Random sample wrote: »
    Will the asti tell members not to cross the picket line in a mixed school?

    I am hoping they will give us guidance rather than leaving us to figure out for ourselves not to do so.

    When asti were on strike, out principal closed the school, so tui members and non union members did not have to make a choice.

    If the school opens ASTI cannot legally tell their members not to cross the TUI picket. But ASTI members cannot cover for TUI teachers. If members choose not to cross then they won't be paid and could face disciplinary action. But the ASTI will support any member who decides not to pass the picket and who faces disciplinary action. That's the standard agreed procedures for strike action by only one union.


  • #8
    dory
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,637 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    RealJohn wrote: »
    It would be awful to delay the mocks to show solidarity with our lesser paid colleagues, alright.
    If they’re picketing, which they should be, you don’t pass the picket.


    I am one of those lesser paid colleagues, and an ASTI rep and go to the annual ASTI conference. All for a good strike, and hope this has the desired effect.
    I just want to be prepared. As ASTI steward I'm going to be asked questions on Monday and hence me being here asking.

    Thanks for those who answered. I presume we won't close, but I certainly don't want to cross a picket.


  • #9
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Lillianna Purple Ref wrote: »
    The TUI member is required to picket at their own workplace only and cannot join another school's picket. The local branch officers travel around to each school to check the picket so it will be known if they don't picket. I doubt this school will close if there's only one person picketing.

    They could support their colleagues at another location by assisting them ie bring refreshments, without mounting a picket on their own.


  • #10
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Sabella wrote: »
    Is this strike not planned the same day as the JCT cluster day or is that school specific, do teachers attend that CPD?

    JCT cluster days occur on different dates across the country. If you are down for a cluster day then as TUI member you don't attend, whereas Asti members still would be expected. However as some of those who would be working for the JCT are also TUI members it may mean the cluster days would be rescheduled.


  • #11
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    joebloggs32 wrote: »
    They could support their colleagues at another location by assisting them ie bring refreshments, without mounting a picket on their own.

    Yes bringing refreshments for colleagues at another school's picket would be ok. But I'm not sure whether having no picket at all on a school is acceptable. I have never seen that situation arise or read any guidelines on it, so I just don't know. It would definitely be a tough situation for the individual if they have to picket and that may be taken into consideration, though if they are someone who abandoned ASTI then I have limited sympathy tbh.


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  • #12
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Lillianna Purple Ref wrote: »
    Yes bringing refreshments for colleagues at another school's picket would be ok. But I'm not sure whether having no picket at all on a school is acceptable. I have never seen that situation arise or read any guidelines on it, so I just don't know. It would definitely be a tough situation for the individual if they have to picket and that may be taken into consideration, though if they are someone who abandoned ASTI then I have limited sympathy tbh.

    Yeah I'd agree with you there about those who jumped ship.
    I do however know a good few people who have moved school and retained their TUI membership over the years so they now find themselves in this very situation.


  • #13
    Sabella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭Sabella


    joebloggs32 wrote: »
    JCT cluster days occur on different dates across the country. If you are down for a cluster day then as TUI member you don't attend, whereas Asti members still would be expected. However as some of those who would be working for the JCT are also TUI members it may mean the cluster days would be rescheduled.

    Okay thanks for the advice, appreciate it.


  • #14
    Millem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    Dual union school here. In the past the non striking staff had to sign a piece of paper to say they were available to work and were told to not come in.
    Basically a paid day off.


  • #15
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Millem wrote: »
    Dual union school here. In the past the non striking staff had to sign a piece of paper to say they were available to work and were told to not come in.
    Basically a paid day off.

    Swings and roundabouts.

    It will be 1/14 of gross pay so after tax it becomes quite a small price to pay


  • #16
    km79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,429 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Millem wrote: »
    Dual union school here. In the past the non striking staff had to sign a piece of paper to say they were available to work and were told to not come in.
    Basically a paid day off.

    What defines a dual union school though
    Say there are approx 80 asti
    And maybe 1 or 2 who failed to return after jumping ship to TUI to avoid losing a days pay to stand up for their own working conditions last time around .........
    Does the school close ?
    Interesting to see what guidance comes from up on high !


  • #17
    Millem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    joebloggs32 wrote: »
    Swings and roundabouts.

    It will be 1/14 of gross pay so after tax it becomes quite a small price to pay

    Oh listen I hear you I only lose around €60 net per unpaid day. My childcare costs more!


  • #18
    solerina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,438 ✭✭✭solerina


    If there is a strike....all the lesser paid teachers in my school are in no union(all ASTI otherwise) so we will be on strike for them...while they get a day off !!! This actually annoys me....they should be there to show they are fighting too...


  • #19
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,410 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    dory wrote: »
    Anyone know what protocol is here? We have 60+ teachers. Only one jumped ship back when ASTI members were being penalised and had their increment delayed.

    And now TUI are on strike and that person will have to strike alone. :rolleyes:

    What do the rest of us do? It's during the Pre exams, would be a disaster if we had to postpone them for one teacher. Would have been so much better and effective if they had gone on strike the same time as ASTI!

    Why? They are only mocks. Presumably like a lot of schools they run up to the midterm in your school. So all that needs to happen if your schools is closed is to shift the mocks back one day and there would be a day off inbetween. Hardly a disaster. If there was a snow day what would happen???

    Strikes are never about convenience. Mocks are an inhouse exam effectively.


  • #20
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,410 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Sabella wrote: »
    Is this strike not planned the same day as the JCT cluster day or is that school specific, do teachers attend that CPD?

    Don't know if it's on all over the country, but I'm based in the north west and that is the date for my cluster day. My school is about 80% TUI so we will be on strike that day. You can't attend CPD if you're on strike. On strike means you are not attending work. If the cluster day wasn't on, you would be teaching, so it amounts to the same thing.


  • #21
    Behind the Fence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 ✭Behind the Fence


    solerina wrote: »
    If there is a strike....all the lesser paid teachers in my school are in no union(all ASTI otherwise) so we will be on strike for them...while they get a day off !!! This actually annoys me....they should be there to show they are fighting too...

    What might be annoying to them however is that they have suffered up to 9 years of reduced pay for the same work and that it has taken 9 years for those who voted for them to take a pay cut to decide to strike for them.
    Isn't it about time we did something for them? To try and convince them to join a union


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  • #22
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,410 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Lillianna Purple Ref wrote: »
    Yes bringing refreshments for colleagues at another school's picket would be ok. But I'm not sure whether having no picket at all on a school is acceptable. I have never seen that situation arise or read any guidelines on it, so I just don't know. It would definitely be a tough situation for the individual if they have to picket and that may be taken into consideration, though if they are someone who abandoned ASTI then I have limited sympathy tbh.

    I vaguely remember a thread about this a couple of years ago and I think someone said on it that if a school had only one teacher representing a striking union that the teacher was not expected to picket alone on health and safety grounds.


  • #23
    Upforthematch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭Upforthematch


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    I vaguely remember a thread about this a couple of years ago and I think someone said on it that if a school had only one teacher representing a striking union that the teacher was not expected to picket alone on health and safety grounds.

    What would the health and safety grounds be?


  • #24
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,410 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Upforthematch wrote: »
    What would the health and safety grounds be?

    I think it was more to do with being on the picket on their own. I don't remember the details.


  • #25
    km79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,429 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Upforthematch wrote: »
    What would the health and safety grounds be?

    Not being able to take a break I would guess ?


  • #26
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Well there are safety issues with standing outside the premises in certain areas. In my former school it was a significant problem that had to be considered. You would have scramblers encircle the people picketing, stone throwing etc. Cars would be damaged and so people would have to park miles away and get a bus. It's the type of place where a security company has to be hired in order to hold sports day in school grounds as it attracts every undesirable in the area. Striking is the same. Being out there on your own would be risky.


  • #27
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Will be interesting to see if FEMPI is applied.


  • #28
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Will be interesting to see if FEMPI is applied.

    It will be interesting to see if the TUI go on strike.


  • #29
    Icsics
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Icsics


    SligoBrewer wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see if the TUI go on strike.

    Yes, you’d imagine ‘talks’ will postpone it. But the timing is bad


  • #30
    Sabella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭Sabella


    I am a member of the TUI and as unions go they seem reactive rather than being pro active, very disappointing overall considering the money they are pulling in fortnightly. Especially when you compare them to the bus and rail unions.


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  • #31
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    Icsics wrote: »
    Yes, you’d imagine ‘talks’ will postpone it. But the timing is bad

    The last 9 years have been bad for the TUI.


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