Union strike in a dual union school

dory

Anyone know what protocol is here? We have 60+ teachers. Only one jumped ship back when ASTI members were being penalised and had their increment delayed.

And now TUI are on strike and that person will have to strike alone. :rolleyes:

What do the rest of us do? It's during the Pre exams, would be a disaster if we had to postpone them for one teacher. Would have been so much better and effective if they had gone on strike the same time as ASTI!

RealJohn

It would be awful to delay the mocks to show solidarity with our lesser paid colleagues, alright.
If they’re picketing, which they should be, you don’t pass the picket.

Sabella

Is this strike not planned the same day as the JCT cluster day or is that school specific, do teachers attend that CPD?

km79

RealJohn wrote: »

It would be awful to delay the mocks to show solidarity with our lesser paid colleagues, alright.
If they’re picketing, which they should be, you don’t pass the picket.

Our lesser paid colleagues left the ASTI, joined the TUI,crossed the picket and left us out in the cold for them
The vast majority then returned with no penalty

There may still be one or two remaining in TUI
My guess is they just won’t picket
Sure who would know anyway.........
Maybe they will picket with the TUI school down the road but I wouldn’t count on it
They didn’t want to lose a days pay before so why would they now

Random sample

Will the asti tell members not to cross the picket line in a mixed school?

I am hoping they will give us guidance rather than leaving us to figure out for ourselves not to do so.

When asti were on strike, out principal closed the school, so tui members and non union members did not have to make a choice.

r93kaey5p2izun

The TUI member is required to picket at their own workplace only and cannot join another school's picket. The local branch officers travel around to each school to check the picket so it will be known if they don't picket. I doubt this school will close if there's only one person picketing.

r93kaey5p2izun

Random sample wrote: »

Will the asti tell members not to cross the picket line in a mixed school?

I am hoping they will give us guidance rather than leaving us to figure out for ourselves not to do so.

When asti were on strike, out principal closed the school, so tui members and non union members did not have to make a choice.

If the school opens ASTI cannot legally tell their members not to cross the TUI picket. But ASTI members cannot cover for TUI teachers. If members choose not to cross then they won't be paid and could face disciplinary action. But the ASTI will support any member who decides not to pass the picket and who faces disciplinary action. That's the standard agreed procedures for strike action by only one union.

dory

RealJohn wrote: »

It would be awful to delay the mocks to show solidarity with our lesser paid colleagues, alright.
If they’re picketing, which they should be, you don’t pass the picket.

I am one of those lesser paid colleagues, and an ASTI rep and go to the annual ASTI conference. All for a good strike, and hope this has the desired effect.
I just want to be prepared. As ASTI steward I'm going to be asked questions on Monday and hence me being here asking.

Thanks for those who answered. I presume we won't close, but I certainly don't want to cross a picket.

joebloggs32

Lillianna Purple Ref wrote: »

The TUI member is required to picket at their own workplace only and cannot join another school's picket. The local branch officers travel around to each school to check the picket so it will be known if they don't picket. I doubt this school will close if there's only one person picketing.

They could support their colleagues at another location by assisting them ie bring refreshments, without mounting a picket on their own.

joebloggs32

Sabella wrote: »

Is this strike not planned the same day as the JCT cluster day or is that school specific, do teachers attend that CPD?

JCT cluster days occur on different dates across the country. If you are down for a cluster day then as TUI member you don't attend, whereas Asti members still would be expected. However as some of those who would be working for the JCT are also TUI members it may mean the cluster days would be rescheduled.

r93kaey5p2izun

joebloggs32 wrote: »

They could support their colleagues at another location by assisting them ie bring refreshments, without mounting a picket on their own.

Yes bringing refreshments for colleagues at another school's picket would be ok. But I'm not sure whether having no picket at all on a school is acceptable. I have never seen that situation arise or read any guidelines on it, so I just don't know. It would definitely be a tough situation for the individual if they have to picket and that may be taken into consideration, though if they are someone who abandoned ASTI then I have limited sympathy tbh.

joebloggs32

Lillianna Purple Ref wrote: »

Yes bringing refreshments for colleagues at another school's picket would be ok. But I'm not sure whether having no picket at all on a school is acceptable. I have never seen that situation arise or read any guidelines on it, so I just don't know. It would definitely be a tough situation for the individual if they have to picket and that may be taken into consideration, though if they are someone who abandoned ASTI then I have limited sympathy tbh.

Yeah I'd agree with you there about those who jumped ship.
I do however know a good few people who have moved school and retained their TUI membership over the years so they now find themselves in this very situation.

Sabella

joebloggs32 wrote: »

JCT cluster days occur on different dates across the country. If you are down for a cluster day then as TUI member you don't attend, whereas Asti members still would be expected. However as some of those who would be working for the JCT are also TUI members it may mean the cluster days would be rescheduled.

Okay thanks for the advice, appreciate it.

Millem

Dual union school here. In the past the non striking staff had to sign a piece of paper to say they were available to work and were told to not come in.
Basically a paid day off.

joebloggs32

Millem wrote: »

Dual union school here. In the past the non striking staff had to sign a piece of paper to say they were available to work and were told to not come in.
Basically a paid day off.

Swings and roundabouts.

It will be 1/14 of gross pay so after tax it becomes quite a small price to pay

km79

Millem wrote: »

Dual union school here. In the past the non striking staff had to sign a piece of paper to say they were available to work and were told to not come in.
Basically a paid day off.

What defines a dual union school though
Say there are approx 80 asti
And maybe 1 or 2 who failed to return after jumping ship to TUI to avoid losing a days pay to stand up for their own working conditions last time around .........
Does the school close ?
Interesting to see what guidance comes from up on high !

Millem

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts.

It will be 1/14 of gross pay so after tax it becomes quite a small price to pay

Oh listen I hear you I only lose around €60 net per unpaid day. My childcare costs more!

solerina

If there is a strike....all the lesser paid teachers in my school are in no union(all ASTI otherwise) so we will be on strike for them...while they get a day off !!! This actually annoys me....they should be there to show they are fighting too...

rainbowtrout

dory wrote: »

Anyone know what protocol is here? We have 60+ teachers. Only one jumped ship back when ASTI members were being penalised and had their increment delayed.

And now TUI are on strike and that person will have to strike alone. :rolleyes:

What do the rest of us do? It's during the Pre exams, would be a disaster if we had to postpone them for one teacher. Would have been so much better and effective if they had gone on strike the same time as ASTI!

Why? They are only mocks. Presumably like a lot of schools they run up to the midterm in your school. So all that needs to happen if your schools is closed is to shift the mocks back one day and there would be a day off inbetween. Hardly a disaster. If there was a snow day what would happen???

Strikes are never about convenience. Mocks are an inhouse exam effectively.

rainbowtrout

Sabella wrote: »

Is this strike not planned the same day as the JCT cluster day or is that school specific, do teachers attend that CPD?

Don't know if it's on all over the country, but I'm based in the north west and that is the date for my cluster day. My school is about 80% TUI so we will be on strike that day. You can't attend CPD if you're on strike. On strike means you are not attending work. If the cluster day wasn't on, you would be teaching, so it amounts to the same thing.

Behind the Fence

solerina wrote: »

If there is a strike....all the lesser paid teachers in my school are in no union(all ASTI otherwise) so we will be on strike for them...while they get a day off !!! This actually annoys me....they should be there to show they are fighting too...

What might be annoying to them however is that they have suffered up to 9 years of reduced pay for the same work and that it has taken 9 years for those who voted for them to take a pay cut to decide to strike for them.
Isn't it about time we did something for them? To try and convince them to join a union

rainbowtrout

Lillianna Purple Ref wrote: »

Yes bringing refreshments for colleagues at another school's picket would be ok. But I'm not sure whether having no picket at all on a school is acceptable. I have never seen that situation arise or read any guidelines on it, so I just don't know. It would definitely be a tough situation for the individual if they have to picket and that may be taken into consideration, though if they are someone who abandoned ASTI then I have limited sympathy tbh.

I vaguely remember a thread about this a couple of years ago and I think someone said on it that if a school had only one teacher representing a striking union that the teacher was not expected to picket alone on health and safety grounds.

Upforthematch

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I vaguely remember a thread about this a couple of years ago and I think someone said on it that if a school had only one teacher representing a striking union that the teacher was not expected to picket alone on health and safety grounds.

What would the health and safety grounds be?

rainbowtrout

Upforthematch wrote: »

What would the health and safety grounds be?

I think it was more to do with being on the picket on their own. I don't remember the details.

km79

Upforthematch wrote: »

What would the health and safety grounds be?

Not being able to take a break I would guess ?

r93kaey5p2izun

Well there are safety issues with standing outside the premises in certain areas. In my former school it was a significant problem that had to be considered. You would have scramblers encircle the people picketing, stone throwing etc. Cars would be damaged and so people would have to park miles away and get a bus. It's the type of place where a security company has to be hired in order to hold sports day in school grounds as it attracts every undesirable in the area. Striking is the same. Being out there on your own would be risky.

Mardy Bum

Will be interesting to see if FEMPI is applied.

SligoBrewer

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Will be interesting to see if FEMPI is applied.

It will be interesting to see if the TUI go on strike.

Icsics

SligoBrewer wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if the TUI go on strike.

Yes, you’d imagine ‘talks’ will postpone it. But the timing is bad

Sabella

I am a member of the TUI and as unions go they seem reactive rather than being pro active, very disappointing overall considering the money they are pulling in fortnightly. Especially when you compare them to the bus and rail unions.

SligoBrewer

Icsics wrote: »

Yes, you’d imagine ‘talks’ will postpone it. But the timing is bad

The last 9 years have been bad for the TUI.

Random sample

Who can they talk to in the week of an election?

SligoBrewer

Random sample wrote: »

Who can they talk to in the week of an election?

They can appease their membership that they're doing something with their one day strike.

Sir123

I have said this before but all 3 unions need to strike together. I know us ASTI were left on our own with no backing 3 years ago, but if a co-ordinated strike could somehow take place that would be ideal and cause some headache.

INTO need to get off their backside and stand up for their members. I hear John Boyle is optimistic that new pay talks could start after Easter and he hopes that pay equality can be achieved once and for all during these talks. A bit of dèja vu here. Crumbs will be handed again without some sort of strike.

I consider myself rationale and not very militant but us teachers need to be militant in order to stop being bullied. We have been bullied for nearly a decade.

I fully support the TUI and their strike and I hope it works. Pity it isn't all 3 together. I would love a good strike in order to clear the air.

Treppen

One things for certain, there won't be any talks going on before an election, or months after the election when all the horse trading is done.

They'd have to talk to all parties and get written assurances.

Here's what a written assurance from a politician looks like BTW;

TheValeyard

Treppen wrote: »

One things for certain, there won't be any talks going on before an election, or months after the election when all the horse trading is done.

They'd have to talk to all parties and get written assurances.

Here's what a written assurance from a politician looks like BTW;

What an absolute donkey he was. (not really fair on Donkeys though)

Terrible Minster of Education who made a complete balls of everything and the new JC.

Talked about equality and fairness, where is he now? - on the board of Nord Anglia International school. A school whose fees are up to E24000 a year!!!!! He is a complete hypocrite and utter ball bag.

doc_17

km79 wrote: »

Our lesser paid colleagues left the ASTI, joined the TUI,crossed the picket and left us out in the cold for them
The vast majority then returned with no penalty

There may still be one or two remaining in TUI
My guess is they just won’t picket
Sure who would know anyway.........
Maybe they will picket with the TUI school down the road but I wouldn’t count on it
They didn’t want to lose a days pay before so why would they now

To say they crossed the picket would be wrong. What picket did they cross?

km79

doc_17 wrote: »

To say they crossed the picket would wrong. What picket did they cross?

The one at the front of the school !
It’s not wrong
I’m not saying anymore on here about the specifics of our school so you will just have to take my word about to
I am sure our situation was not unique either

It will live a long long time in my memory

doc_17

km79 wrote: »

The one at the front of the school !
It’s not wrong
I’m not saying anymore on here about the specifics of our school so you will just have to take my word about to
I am sure our situation was not unique either

It will live a long long time in my memory

With all due respect I cannot accept that. What year? When did an ASTI strike happen and TUI crossed the picket?

Benicetomonty

doc_17 wrote: »

With all due respect I cannot accept that. What year? When did an ASTI strike happen and TUI crossed the picket?

Id argue that signing that document that was made available for TUI and non Union when the ASTI went on strike (or the lock out, whichever it was) the last time was essentially crossing a picket. That management agreed to facilitate it was the real sickener of course.
Will be very interested to see if the same option will be made available to ASTI members Tuesday 2 weeks, given that so many Ps and DPs joined the TUI at the time.

If it is, Id imagine that there would be a very high take up and solidarity be damned. Only way I see the ASTI rowing in behind the TUI this time is if the department threaten to impose FEMPI, which of course they should and, equally of course, they wont. But Ive been wrong before

doc_17

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Id argue that signing that document that was made available for TUI and non Union when the ASTI went on strike (or the lock out, whichever it was) the last time was essentially crossing a picket. That management agreed to facilitate it was the real sickener of course.
Will be very interested to see if the same option will be made available to ASTI members Tuesday 2 weeks, given that so many Ps and DPs joined the TUI at the time.

If it is, Id imagine that there would be a very high take up and solidarity be damned. Only way I see the ASTI rowing in behind the TUI this time is if the department threaten to impose FEMPI, which of course they should and, equally of course, they wont. But Ive been wrong before

That’s not crossing a picket. You can argue it all you want but it just isn’t. Walking past striking Union members is passing the picket. The other conduct isn’t on the same planet as that.

But as you say, I know a few Ps and DPs that switched Unions so if they stayed with TUI then it will be very interesting indeed.

Sir123

https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/tui-dispute-action/

Interesting statement from ASTI this afternoon incase ye haven't seen it.

Random sample

Sir123 wrote: »

https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/tui-dispute-action/

Interesting statement from ASTI this afternoon incase ye haven't seen it.

Thanks. I hadn’t seen that. Is it a bit unnecessarily long winded? I don’t really like the tone of it.

rainbowtrout

Very odd and a little unnecessary. It’s main purpose seems to be to have a dig at TUI which doesn’t really help. The advice on dual union schools is almost tacked on as an aside and doesn’t actually give any new info

Treppen

Maybe if TUI members are in the school's minority they could leave and join the ASTI instead. 😂

Sabella

A dream scenario for the government, three teachers unions, each feathering their own nest and not communicating with each other. The TUI need to be more militant or else all three unions sit down and actually work together for the actual people paying their subscriptions.

wingnut

Sabella wrote: »

A dream scenario for the government, three teachers unions, each feathering their own nest and not communicating with each other. The TUI need to be more militant or else all three unions sit down and actually work together for the actual people paying their subscriptions.

Hard to see that happening after the TUI facilitated wholesale movement of teachers during the last dispute. We went from being a majority ASTI school to having only a small handful of ASTI members. The threat to the increments lead to most staff switching as fast as they could.

Sabella

wingnut wrote: »

Hard to see that happening after the TUI facilitated wholesale movement of teachers during the last dispute. We went from being a majority ASTI school to having only a small handful of ASTI members. The threat to the increments lead to most staff switching as fast as they could.

Yeah ideal for the government, in reality they all need to sit down, see where each union are in negotiations and start working towards a common goal. One teacher should be treated the same as another. If they coordinated their talks the government would be back into proper negotiations.

Im not a strong trade unionist but again my salary never fails to deduct the contribution to the union, I would like to see them do more and like one poster mentioned earlier I would be surprised if this goes ahead or they actually achieve anything at all with it being so close to the election.

Millem

We picked our slots for picketing today. Our school is dual union and will close under health and safety grounds.

Benicetomonty

Hilarious lack of enthusiasm amongst the very small number of TUI members in our place, all bar one of whom jumped ship during the ASTI dispute. P and DP both members and neither have any interest in picketing. Haven't heard as much yet, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if JMB are advising managers of dual union schools to leave the TUI (as well as telling them to gently encourage their staff members to do likewise) so schools can remain open.

Means they'll be non-union for a period of course since they can't join the ASTI, but I doubt that'll bother them too much. Shambles :pac:

Treppen

Your be forgiven for thinking the JMB is a Union now.