Union strike in a dual union school

km79

2011abc wrote: »

ASTI balloting for strike on two tier pay. Hope there's a govt in power for us to protest against when the go ahead is given by the membership .

Balloting for strike ONLY in conjunction with at least one of TUI/INTO
Smart move
I predict turn out will be low but it will get over the line just

I guess all the non union LPTs should probably join now........cos you know the rest of us who voted for and picketed last time did that for our own benefit.......and will do the same again!

Millem

km79 wrote: »

Balloting for strike ONLY in conjunction with at least one of TUI/INTO
Smart move
I predict turn out will be low but it will get over the line just

I guess all the non union LPTs should probably join now........cos you know the rest of us who voted for and picketed last time did that for our own benefit.......and will do the same again!

It won’t be on the same strike day as tui though. Here’s hoping INTO will follow!
The primary school teachers hold all the power.

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

It won’t be on the same strike day as tui though. Here’s hoping INTO will follow!
The primary school teachers hold all the power.

...and never go on strike

Millem

rainbowtrout wrote: »

...and never go on strike

I know! I reckon by day 3 the government would crumble!!!

km79

Millem wrote: »

It won’t be on the same strike day as tui though. Here’s hoping INTO will follow!
The primary school teachers hold all the power.

My reading of it is.....
We would vote for strike action together with the other unions on an agreed date in the future. In addition/seperate to TUI one at start of Feb

Millem

km79 wrote: »

My reading of it is.....
We would vote for strike action together with the other unions on an agreed date in the future. In addition/seperate to TUI one at start of Feb

It’s a much better idea to join forces....power in numbers!

I wonder what happens if you are due to be on parental leave on a strike day? It does not apply to me on 4th feb but may apply for future strike! I got sent a faq from tui re strike but no mention of parental leave.

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

It’s a much better idea to join forces....power in numbers!

I wonder what happens if you are due to be on parental leave on a strike day? It does not apply to me on 4th feb but may apply for future strike! I got sent a faq from tui re strike but no mention of parental leave.

Is this unpaid parental leave?

acequion

As another poster said,all the bickering and bad blood is a dream for the Govt.

The INTO really should get their act together now but I wouldn't be holding my breath. Still, if both second level unions dig their heels in this time and neither blink, then I think real progress can be made at last.

The two tier pay structure will probably come to an end as firstly, it's plain wrong and secondly, with Ireland having the fastest growing economy in the EU for the last four years, no new Govt have a legitimate excuse to continue it [Brexit fears aside].

However, post 2011 pensions really are dire and presumably here to stay!

joebloggs32

acequion wrote: »

As another poster said,all the bickering and bad blood is a dream for the Govt.

The INTO really should get their act together now but I wouldn't be holding my breath. Still, if both second level unions dig their heels in this time and neither blink, then I think real progress can be made at last.

The two tier pay structure will probably come to an end as firstly, it's plain wrong and secondly, with Ireland having the fastest growing economy in the EU for the last four years, no new Govt have a legitimate excuse to continue it [Brexit fears aside].

However, post 2011 pensions really are dire and presumably here to stay!

Yes, I think this is the final battle of this long campaign to end pay inequality, bit the next war which all public servants should engage in is pension inequality.

Millem

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Is this unpaid parental leave?

Yes.

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

Yes.

My interpretation is that you are not supposed to be working and are unpaid so you wouldn't have to strike. You're not getting paid either way.

expectationlost

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No, because you'd have to know every teacher's union affiliation if any.

have students been told either way yet?

rainbowtrout

expectationlost wrote: »

have students been told either way yet?

You're asking like all schools act as one entity. Some schools are entirely ASTI and won't be affected. Some are entirely TUI and will be shut. Some are a combination of both so will probably be shut. It's more than a week away yet.

Random sample

Millem wrote: »

It’s a much better idea to join forces....power in numbers!

I wonder what happens if you are due to be on parental leave on a strike day? It does not apply to me on 4th feb but may apply for future strike! I got sent a faq from tui re strike but no mention of parental leave.

If you are on another type of leave during the strike, you remain on that type of leave, whether it is paid or unpaid. I was on paid leave for a strike day and I didn’t have the option to switch to strike and back.

expectationlost

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You're asking like all schools act as one entity.

no I am not.

thegreatescape

What is the procedure for non union members ahead of next week's strike?

joebloggs32

thegreatescape wrote: »

What is the procedure for non union members ahead of next week's strike?

Inform school management you are available to work as usual. It's up to them after that if they are opening or closing the school.

km79

thegreatescape wrote: »

What is the procedure for non union members ahead of next week's strike?

From your previous posts it seems you are an LPT
Would you not consider joining the union and joining your colleagues on the picket line who are fighting for your pay equalization ?

thegreatescape

km79 wrote: »

From your previous posts it seems you are an LPT
Would you not consider joining the union and joining your colleagues on the picket line who are fighting for your pay equalization ?

I didn't say I wasn't in a union and wouldn't be picketing but thanks for your obvious logic. :rolleyes:

doc_17

thegreatescape wrote: »

What is the procedure for non union members ahead of next week's strike?

Join the Union.

cmssjone

We recently had an ASTI meeting where it was explained to us that the directive from the union was that we were to make ourselves available for work but not carry out any of the duties that our TUI colleagues should be doing eg substitution etc. Naturally the TUI members will be forming a picket and manning it throughout the day.

The school has multiple entrances and only the main one will be picketed. We have been told to make ourselves available and can do so by bypassing the main entrance and using one of the others. I, and others, find this highly divisive. I do not want to cross a picket line but the ASTI directive indicates that I should. I consider circumventing the picket line by taking another entrance as crossing the picket by proxy ie we are not supporting the industrial action of my colleagues and friends. I feel that this is going to have huge ramifications in the relationships between staff members going forward.

My union rep made it very clear that this was the stance of the union and that if one was to make themselves unavailable for work ie conscientious objector, then they would not be backed by the union under the legislation and it would be seen as local industrial action. Naturally supporting the strike would lead to a loss of wage for the day.

Are there any thoughts on the above? Is going into the school via another entrance crossing the picket?

History Queen

cmssjone wrote: »

We recently had an ASTI meeting where it was explained to us that the directive from the union was that we were to make ourselves available for work but not carry out any of the duties that our TUI colleagues should be doing eg substitution etc. Naturally the TUI members will be forming a picket and manning it throughout the day.

The school has multiple entrances and only the main one will be picketed. We have been told to make ourselves available and can do so by bypassing the main entrance and using one of the others. I, and others, find this highly divisive. I do not want to cross a picket line but the ASTI directive indicates that I should. I consider circumventing the picket line by taking another entrance as crossing the picket by proxy ie we are not supporting the industrial action of my colleagues and friends. I feel that this is going to have huge ramifications in the relationships between staff members going forward.

My union rep made it very clear that this was the stance of the union and that if one was to make themselves unavailable for work ie conscientious objector, then they would not be backed by the union under the legislation and it would be seen as local industrial action. Naturally supporting the strike would lead to a loss of wage for the day.

Are there any thoughts on the above? Is going into the school via another entrance crossing the picket?

I'm not in the ASTI( I'm TUI) so I'm not sure but that sounds like a misunderstanding of a directive? Have you seen the directive yourself in writing? I find it hard to believe that any union would condone crossing a picket! Albeit that TUI/ASTI relationships are at an all time low.

rainbowtrout

I would agree, I would take a picket to be a picket of the place of employment, not just one door to the workplace. Might as well disband the unions now if ASTI did mean for staff to go in the backdoor to work.

Benicetomonty

That is the asti directive as I see it. As per 1990 industrial relations documentation, people who refuse to pass a picket will be seen to be engaging in unauthorised industrial action or an unofficial strike.
If the school is closing, management should make available to non tui staff a form you can sign stating you are available to work. If it isnt, your best move is to agree as a staff that under no circumstances is anybody to pass a picket, no matter how small or big it is. The dept cant crucify all of you.
Legally, the wrong thing to do. Culturally the only thing to do.

History Queen

I just checked and TUI issued similar guidance to its members during the ASTI strikes of 2016 BUT it included the proviso that it would back/defend members who faced a disciplinary as a result of not crossing the picket. I think you need to look at the ASTI directive itself to get clarity. Perhaps ask your rep for a copy? I've attached the TUI guidance from 2016 just as reference

cmssjone

History Queen wrote: »

I just checked and TUI issued similar guidance to its members during the ASTI strikes of 2016 BUT it included the proviso that it would back/defend members who faced a disciplinary as a result of not crossing the picket. I think you need to look at the ASTI directive itself to get clarity. Perhaps ask your rep for a copy? I've attached the TUI guidance from 2016 just as reference

Apologies, I think the same guidance is being given regarding crossing the picket as the TUI received ie disciplinary action could ensue but that ASTI would back any teacher that was threatened with this.

Benicetomonty

cmssjone wrote: »

Apologies, I think the same guidance is being given regarding crossing the picket as the TUI received ie disciplinary action could ensue but that ASTI would back any teacher that was threatened with this.

This is correct.

Sabella

Ah infighting between the unions, the senior civil servants and the minister really must be giggling and high fiving at this ��

History Queen

Sabella wrote: »

Ah infighting between the unions, the senior civil servants and the minister really must be giggling and high fiving at this ��

I don't think this is infighting? It seems to be standard action during a dispute (since 1990) unless I've misunderstood?

Sabella

Competing unions within one profession really