House with no driveway, on-street parking - what to do?

JCDUB · 14-01-2020 10:37am #1

I currently drive a hybrid and would like to go full EV. It suits my commute and I could live with using the charging network to make irregular longer journeys.

However, I live in a terraced house with no driveway, just on-street parking directly outside my door. I have a couple of concerns. One is that parking is not allocated, and I'm not always guaranteed to get a spot outside my house, although this seldom happens, so I'm not majorly worried.

Another one is that I'd have to run a cable across the pavement, even though it is only about 4 feet wide. I've thought about the possibility of a clearly marked little "ramp" that covers and protects a cable but have a feeling this may attract attention and leave it open to vandalism, or worse, Ireland's despicable compo culture.

Another (minor) issue is where do I position the charger? Does it have to go on the inside of the front wall of my house? I presume it does. Don't think I could put it outside as it's a pavement/pedestrian traffic etc?

Has anybody done anything similar previously? Is there a way around these issues? Are Dublin City Council helpful I wonder? I'd appreciate input of anybody in a similar situation.

FYI, AFAIK there are no EVs in the area charging in this manner, I've never witnessed one anyhow.

Thanks for reading.

drunkmonkey · 14-01-2020 11:21am

I'd say you'd be liable if someone trips over the cable which they will, you'd probably also need permission off the management company or council. You could wire it in a way that people walk under the cable rather than over it(think clothesline).
Charge at work if it's parked there all day.

Mickeroo · 14-01-2020 12:00pm

You'd have to get the charger on a pedestal by the parking space. It's doable but expensive. Look Nigel M Daly on facebook and they will have photos of examples on their page (you will pay through the nose if you go with them though but might not have a choice in this kind of set up).

I don't think you will qualify for the charger grant either.

unkel · 14-01-2020 12:02pm

You can't install a charger as you don't own the parking space. Sorry for the bad news. Unless you have work charging, I would not recommend an EV until public charging gets much better like in the Netherlands

Gumbo · 14-01-2020 12:17pm

JCDUB wrote: »

I currently drive a hybrid and would like to go full EV. It suits my commute and I could live with using the charging network to make irregular longer journeys.

However, I live in a terraced house with no driveway, just on-street parking directly outside my door. I have a couple of concerns. One is that parking is not allocated, and I'm not always guaranteed to get a spot outside my house, although this seldom happens, so I'm not majorly worried.

Another one is that I'd have to run a cable across the pavement, even though it is only about 4 feet wide. I've thought about the possibility of a clearly marked little "ramp" that covers and protects a cable but have a feeling this may attract attention and leave it open to vandalism, or worse, Ireland's despicable compo culture.

Another (minor) issue is where do I position the charger? Does it have to go on the inside of the front wall of my house? I presume it does. Don't think I could put it outside as it's a pavement/pedestrian traffic etc?

Has anybody done anything similar previously? Is there a way around these issues? Are Dublin City Council helpful I wonder? I'd appreciate input of anybody in a similar situation.

FYI, AFAIK there are no EVs in the area charging in this manner, I've never witnessed one anyhow.

Thanks for reading.

Is this a public path and public road or a management company estate?

If public, I agree with Unkel, no charger on the pavement possible.

JCDUB · 14-01-2020 12:54pm

unkel wrote: »

You can't install a charger as you don't own the parking space. Sorry for the bad news. Unless you have work charging, I would not recommend an EV until public charging gets much better like in the Netherlands

Yep, it's a public path so, as I suspected, I can't really do much at the moment. It's a pity, but I'm not moving house just to own an EV.

Hopefully DCC will show some innovation and come up with a solution as I'd imagine the uptake in my area (plenty of young hipster types with an environmental conscience and short commutes) would be pretty high.

Also, I work for a government department and there is no chargers at work, and they've never been mentioned. I could bring it up but I'd imagine it'd be expensive and come out of our own budget, not the department's, so that'd be a no.

Thanks all for replies so far.

AndrewJRenko · 14-01-2020 1:40pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

You'd have to get the charger on a pedestal by the parking space. It's doable but expensive. Look Nigel M Daly on facebook and they will have photos of examples on their page (you will pay through the nose if you go with them though but might not have a choice in this kind of set up).

I don't think you will qualify for the charger grant either.

I heard a mention on Morning Ireland this morning that Dun Laoghaire Rathdown have installed some chargers on the street lighting poles, which would remove the need for the cable running across the path, if you happened to have such a pole nearby.

McGiver · 15-01-2020 1:51am

JCDUB wrote:

Also, I work for a government department and there is no chargers at work, and they've never been mentioned. I could bring it up but I'd imagine it'd be expensive and come out of our own budget, not the department's, so that'd be a no.

For starters they can do a lockable, external, IP67 rated 3pin 10-13A 240V socket. Costs 150 quid including labour and the socket at most. The most cheapest and easiest solution for workplace charging.

Can't believe gov department can't spend!
All gov buildings should have had chargers by now... It's a shame they don't.

Lumen · 15-01-2020 6:57am

https://www.theramppeople.ie/cable-protectors

NIMAN · 15-01-2020 8:40am

Its an issue that will have to be addressed sometime.

An awful lot of people live in terraced houses, apartment blocks etc, and have no driveways.
That shouldn't exclude them from being EV owners.

Mickeroo · 15-01-2020 9:46am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I heard a mention on Morning Ireland this morning that Dun Laoghaire Rathdown have installed some chargers on the street lighting poles, which would remove the need for the cable running across the path, if you happened to have such a pole nearby.

I think I heard Fingal were piloting something similar, it makes a lot of sense.

liamog · 15-01-2020 10:25am

By the sound of it you live in a Dublin City Council area. How much mileage are you doing during weekly commutes and at the weekend.

There is currently a tender out across the 4 city councils for an e-mobilty project. No doubt as soon as a public consultation starts it will be posted here. You are exactly the type of person they should be engaging with. In my opinion we need a number of Dundee style charging hubs to address situations like yours.

JCDUB · 15-01-2020 1:09pm

liamog wrote: »

By the sound of it you live in a Dublin City Council area. How much mileage are you doing during weekly commutes and at the weekend.

There is currently a tender out across the 4 city councils for an e-mobilty project. No doubt as soon as a public consultation starts it will be posted here. You are exactly the type of person they should be engaging with. In my opinion we need a number of Dundee style charging hubs to address situations like yours.

Thanks liamog, that's invaluable information. I live in D.7 and drive to Donabate 5 days a week for work, a 30 mile round trip.

As an aside there is a charging point quite near me, just off Prussia At, but it's not practical for me to park there and walk home and then go back and collect car later.

The earlier mentioned idea of charge points in lamp posts is simple and effective, I love it.

JCDUB · 15-01-2020 1:14pm

McGiver wrote: »

For starters they can do a lockable, external, IP67 rated 3pin 10-13A 240V socket. Costs 150 quid including labour and the socket at most. The most cheapest and easiest solution for workplace charging.

Can't believe gov department can't spend!
All gov buildings should have had chargers by now... It's a shame they don't.

Sorry, I should clarify, I'm a teacher and have summers off etc, so while this solution may work while I'm in work, there are periods I wouldn't have access to it unfortunately.

slave1 · 15-01-2020 1:21pm

Charging points on street posts are absolutely the way to go but this does not get around the trailing charging cable in a public place which are a trip hazard (especially in the dark evenings/night) and a compensation claim in waiting.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 15-01-2020 1:23pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Its an issue that will have to be addressed sometime.

An awful lot of people live in terraced houses, apartment blocks etc, and have no driveways.
That shouldn't exclude them from being EV owners.

Well it should really. It's called tough titties.

15-01-2020 1:30pm

slave1 wrote: »

Charging points on street posts are absolutely the way to go but this does not get around the trailing charging cable in a public place which are a trip hazard (especially in the dark evenings/night) and a compensation claim in waiting.

With the subsidies and the rest of the money being thrown around the cost of burying a single cable under a footpath is small change and there's no reason funding shouldn't be available for it.

zg3409 · 15-01-2020 6:18pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I heard a mention on Morning Ireland this morning that Dun Laoghaire Rathdown have installed some chargers on the street lighting poles, which would remove the need for the cable running across the path, if you happened to have such a pole nearby.

They have installed quantity 1. It needed a special pole, and special supply, so not exactly straight forward. I believe there are a couple of issues, the supply to typical street lights does not have 7kw spare. Also I believe an earth rod is needed. Finally the charger is a water proof unit, not retrofittable to old poles. It contains a phone sim card and needs to be enabled through a website but is currently free. There is another one in swords chapel lane and one or two in blanch. See plugshare app for photos and details.

In terms of OP there is no realistic solution if you do not have a dedicated parking space. If you had a dedicated space you would need council permission to dig footpath, so would need approved contractor. Your round trip commute is not that large so there may be no real cost savings on switching to EV

loopymum · 15-01-2020 11:07pm

McGiver wrote: »

For starters they can do a lockable, external, IP67 rated 3pin 10-13A 240V socket. Costs 150 quid including labour and the socket at most. The most cheapest and easiest solution for workplace charging.

Could you link to this please? I want to get one for work charging ourselves

zg3409 · 16-01-2020 12:08am

loopymum wrote: »

Could you link to this please? I want to get one for work charging ourselves

This might do:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07RGVYCVP/ref=sspa_mw_detail_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1

adunis · 17-01-2020 11:08am

Stick a tethered charger up at the eaves/8 foot mark with a swing out boom to drop the cable to the car ?

sidekick · 18-01-2020 11:14am

Have you seen one of these solutions? That would be ideal for me too, although a space right outside the house isn’t always guaranteed.

Grab All Association · 18-01-2020 11:26am

It's not worth the hassle of the many issues that'll arise here. If I were you I'd stick with your hybrid. Between idiots vandalising, faking injuries, possible planning issues etc. Those Harris Fowler adverts on Sky TV make Irish people wet and aroused and they go looking for ways to injure their brittle poreclin necks. You could try raise it with the council asking would they supply chargers nearby, but it's highly unlikely they would.

amadangomor · 18-01-2020 11:31am

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Well it should really. It's called tough titties.

12,000+ posts and this is the standard you have achieved :rolleyes:

McGiver · 18-01-2020 2:14pm

Grab All Association wrote:

It's not worth the hassle of the many issues that'll arise here. If I were you I'd stick with your hybrid. Between idiots vandalising, faking injuries, possible planning issues etc. Those Harris Fowler adverts on Sky TV make Irish people wet and aroused and they go looking for ways to injure their brittle poreclin necks. You could try raise it with the council asking would they supply chargers nearby, but it's highly unlikely they would.

Elaborate on why not worth exactly please.

Lumen · 18-01-2020 3:05pm

I still haven't read any objections to using an anti-trip cable protection ramp. This is exactly what they're designed for.

Calahonda52 · 18-01-2020 3:22pm

amadangomor wrote: »

12,000+ posts and this is the standard you have achieved :rolleyes:

This is his breakdown of most of the 12k

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liamog · 18-01-2020 4:19pm

Mod Note: As always, discuss the post not the posters!

JCDUB · 18-01-2020 5:36pm

Lumen wrote: »

I still haven't read any objections to using an anti-trip cable protection ramp. This is exactly what they're designed for.

Absolutely. I agree and think that using one of these is plenty warning etc.

However our judiciary tend to disagree, for whatever reason, and I'm not willing to take that chance I'm afraid.

pablo128 · 18-01-2020 5:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

With the subsidies and the rest of the money being thrown around the cost of burying a single cable under a footpath is small change and there's no reason funding shouldn't be available for it.

Not that I'm in a hurry to buy an electric car, but there's a green area between my house and the main road where I have to park. There are marked parking spaces, but because there's pedestrian traffic lights directly in front, I have to park at least 3 houses up. Probably 150 feet away from my house. There's 3 parking spots around the back but they are usually taken.

Electric cars are not for me even if I wanted one.

Del2005 · 18-01-2020 7:38pm

Lumen wrote: »

I still haven't read any objections to using an anti-trip cable protection ramp. This is exactly what they're designed for.

Because a cable will still be visible in public and our public like to fall/trip over these things. With our laws I can sue you if I trip over your charging cable in your driveway, sticking it on a public road is asking for a claim. I'm surprised there hasn't been a rack of claims already from people "tripping" on cables at charge points.

namloc1980 · 19-01-2020 11:35am

In the same boat. Terraced house with no off street parking so ev impossible for me. There better be a solution for the many people who live in terraced houses/apartments before new ice cars are banned in 2030.

Del2005 · 19-01-2020 1:02pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

In the same boat. Terraced house with no off street parking so ev impossible for me. There better be a solution for the many people who live in terraced houses/apartments before new ice cars are banned in 2030.

It's only pure ICE that's bring banned, hybrid and PHEV will still be available.

You'd hope that in 10 years they'd have figured out a better way to charge cars, at least let people with no way to install a charger at home pay the same as people who can, or if they ever get self driving working we won't need to own a car so charging won't be an issue.

Grab All Association · 19-01-2020 1:56pm

If they mounted them to the curb you’d literally have people limboing under your wheels to injure themselves over it.

The whole culture of frivolous, exaggerated and fraudulent claims would have to be tackled before anyone should think of doing something like this.

It’s not fair but that’s the way the government, solicitors, barrister and the claimants and sometimes the insurance companies* like it (*unsolicited texts after an accident reported to insurance is documented in the UK by firms who are also operating in Ireland )
Unfortunately I don’t see that changing anytime soon either.

Whilst I don’t envisage ever owning an electric car in my life for practical reasons e.g towing heavy crap, breaking the speed limit which is wrong and I’d never do ðŸ˜‰, the sweet sweet smell of the petrol (I’d maybe buy a petrol hybrid if they ever bloody build one with a manual gearbox minimum 245bhp, why are they not doing this?

) The electric vehicles do intrigue me I must admit. Maybe as a second car. Would have to be an eGolf as I love and own Golf GTIs through the years.

But anyway OP, please think carefully about it. Don’t put yourself at risk of being sued by these parasites from all classes in society. Hopefully in the near future there’s a solution and happy motoring to you

TheChizler · 19-01-2020 2:02pm

Why is the mentality that we must avoid being sued rather than we must avoid injuring people? Attitudes like this need to change.

Grab All Association · 19-01-2020 3:30pm

TheChizler wrote: »

Why is the mentality that we must avoid being sued rather than we must avoid injuring people? Attitudes like this need to change.

Because even in a life jacket in the kiddy section of a swimming pool, 1 in 3 Irish people would claim they feared they’d have drowned and sue for emotional distress

TheChizler · 19-01-2020 4:22pm

Grab All Association wrote: »

Because even in a life jacket in the kiddy section of a swimming pool, 1 in 3 Irish people would claim they feared they’d have drowned and sue for emotional distress

I'm not sure hyperbole helps your point.

McGiver · 19-01-2020 7:10pm

liamog wrote: »

By the sound of it you live in a Dublin City Council area. How much mileage are you doing during weekly commutes and at the weekend.

There is currently a tender out across the 4 city councils for an e-mobilty project. No doubt as soon as a public consultation starts it will be posted here. You are exactly the type of person they should be engaging with. In my opinion we need a number of Dundee style charging hubs to address situations like yours.

Can you share what those Dundee style hubs are? Out of interest.
Planning a trip to Scotland in few months...

Del2005 · 19-01-2020 7:31pm

TheChizler wrote: »

Why is the mentality that we must avoid being sued rather than we must avoid injuring people? Attitudes like this need to change.

Because in a large portion of the claims the person hasn't been injured, but still gets a sizable payout.

How do you propose to stop people tripping or snagging trailing cables?

TheChizler · 19-01-2020 10:17pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Because in a large portion of the claims the person hasn't been injured, but still gets a sizable payout.

How do you propose to stop people tripping or snagging trailing cables?

Well removing the hazard in the first place solves the problem of genuine injuries who both sue and don't sue, and the fake ones.

I never claimed to have the answers but that doesn't negate my point that we should be looking out for all footpath users, not just the ones who are looking for someone to sue. I'm not sure additional street furniture or exposed cables is the answer, for both aesthetic and safety reasons.

Del2005 · 20-01-2020 10:21am

TheChizler wrote: »

Well removing the hazard in the first place solves the problem of genuine injuries who both sue and don't sue, and the fake ones.

I never claimed to have the answers but that doesn't negate my point that we should be looking out for all footpath users, not just the ones who are looking for someone to sue. I'm not sure additional street furniture or exposed cables is the answer, for both aesthetic and safety reasons.

Vehicles aren't footpath users though so their infrastructure should not be on them, its bad enough that people illegally park on footpaths putting hardware for charging will make them worse for footpath users.

TheChizler · 20-01-2020 7:37pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Vehicles aren't footpath users though so their infrastructure should not be on them, its bad enough that people illegally park on footpaths putting hardware for charging will make them worse for footpath users.

100% agree

McGiver · 20-01-2020 10:21pm

Del2005 wrote:

Vehicles aren't footpath users though so their infrastructure should not be on them, its bad enough that people illegally park on footpaths putting hardware for charging will make them worse for footpath users.

What do you suggest instead?

Markcheese · 21-01-2020 2:07pm

Put the charger plug into a slim bollard on the kerb side of the footpath ..
so it stops Muppets parking on paths ,
means no loose wires flopping around on the path for people to trip on ,

AulWan · 21-01-2020 2:15pm

JCDUB wrote: »

Also, I work for a government department and there is no chargers at work, and they've never been mentioned. I could bring it up but I'd imagine it'd be expensive and come out of our own budget, not the department's, so that'd be a no.

I work for a government department too, and not only do we have multiple charging points across all of our locations we have several official electric vehicles.

Bring it up with your Department.

innrain · 22-01-2020 5:37pm

I came across this grant.

https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/public-charge-point/

You can't apply for it but your council can. Contact your council let them know your interest and the same for your neighbors and who knows we might benefit from this along with you.

Julez · 19-03-2022 2:55pm

@JCDUB did you ever get an EV in the end? It sounds like your home is almost the exact same situation as mine. I don't so many miles, I could charge across the path with a cable cover, but not sure an electrician would even install the charger.

JCDUB · 28-03-2022 1:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805629#Comment_118805629

Nope, never got one. It was just not feasible, and as with everything in this country, there were no steps being taken to expedite the situation.

Instead I had to buy a diesel, as there were no large family size hybrids available to me (GS300h) within budget.

RobbieTheRobber · 28-03-2022 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805629#Comment_118805629

The installers will install the charger. It is not an issue to them if you trip someone up running a cable across the path. As long as the install complies with electrical regulations they will install.

I know of at least a couple of installations where the cable has to run across a path to where the assigned car space for any car to be charged could be and two separate installers had no issue fitting the charger in these cases. Also both people received their grants from SEAI for these installations.

AndrewJRenko · 28-03-2022 1:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846687#Comment_118846687

Awful to hear that the SEAI are subsidising drivers to create trip hazards on pavements. They should really be checking for this at application stage.

I’d hope that local authorities or management companies would deal with such situations when they arise.

RobbieTheRobber · 28-03-2022 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846821#Comment_118846821

Cutting the cable would be a dangerous and illegal action so I wouldn't recommend it, and you will probably need a bigger cutter than that for EV cable.

In both cases cables are always covered by cable covers across the path when in use.

House with no driveway, on-street parking - what to do?

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