The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Splitting Dublin is in effect throwing Dublin out of the All Ireland and setting up 2 or more part county teams.
Its the end of the AI as we know it.

Kick Dublin out because they are now winning is the argument I hear. Its BS.

mcgragger wrote: »

Splitting Dublin is in effect throwing Dublin out of the All Ireland and setting up 2 or more part county teams.
Its the end of the AI as we know it.

Kick Dublin out because they are now winning is the argument I hear. Its BS.

Yes. Let's stick to geographical divisions made by the Normans and Tudors

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But it isnt their share.
Hence the use of the word - disproportionate. If it was their share it would be proportionate. This is the opposite of that - disproportionate.

Also, if you think that dublin are simply getting back the money they generate for the gaa, you are wrong there too. Id you analyse the attendance figures you see that they are in fact getting sizeably more of a percentage than that they generate, which means that, basically the rest of the gaa world is footing the bill for the financial doping of a competitor. That is a ludicrous situation

they have population significantly greater than the rest. Development funding should be significantly higher as a result. Dublin shouldn't be split because of their size. Funding to help other counties improve should be found but Dublin are far from being subsidised.

Dots1982 wrote: »

We’re entering into the decade where Intercounty Gaelic Football is on trial and has to prove that it’s worth the interest of masses.

its far from on trial and it is far from what Dublin are doing that is causing issues in the inter county set up nationwide.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

No kerry at no point in history should have been split. They are in fact the example that should be rolled out across every organisation. What they have achieved from the numbers they have is exemplary. If some9ne cannot understand the differences between the resources at play there, then this discussion may be going over their heads

they're not though. They at moment have significant assistance from major sponsors and everything else they get to aid them...

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

they have population significantly greater than the rest. Development funding should be significantly higher as a result. Dublin shouldn't be split because of their size. Funding to help other counties improve should be found but Dublin are far from being subsidised.

Dublin's development funding is disproportionate to their population and their registered players. Why are you wilfully ignoring this fact? This is ignoring the sponsorship and other money too.

If you were to argue that funding should be based on population/ players, you should in fact be arguing for a significant reduction on the current expenditure on Dublin. But instead you try to defend the status quo.

So blindly repeating "Dublin have a bigger population so they should get more funding" is laughable when it has been repeatedly spelled out that even accounting for this population they are overfunded.

Dublin got €18 million from 2007-18 in GD funds. Cork got €1.4 million. How does this fit with your population argument? Dublin are two and a half times the population of Cork but got almost 13 times the funding. Again, this ignores the sponsorship money too.

The population argument is actually an argument for a split, not more funding anyway.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin's development funding is disproportionate to their population and their registered players. Why are you wilfully ignoring this fact? This is ignoring the sponsorship and other money too.

If you were to argue that funding should be based on population/ players, you should in fact be arguing for a significant reduction on the current expenditure on Dublin. But instead you try to defend the status quo.

So blindly repeating "Dublin have a bigger population so they should get more funding" is laughable when it has been repeatedly spelled out that even accounting for this population they are overfunded.

Dublin got €18 million from 2007-18 in GD funds. Cork got €1.4 million. How does this fit with your population argument? Dublin are two and a half times the population of Cork but got almost 13 times the funding. Again, this ignores the sponsorship money too.

The population argument is actually an argument for a split, not more funding anyway.

what is playing population? Potential of growth far larger in Dublin in capital with far more who'll not have experience playing gaa compared to the very rural county cork. .
Sponsorship is higher in Dublin bit that doesn't mean and cannot mean that development funding should have to be lower. You cant put the two together.

gaffer91 wrote: »

You dispelled absolutely nothing. You tried to draw an absurd false equivalence between Dublin and Kerry and it was such a poor argument that it was laughed at and promptly and correctly dismissed.

Dublin are uniquely advantaged compared to every other county. The scale and combination of advantages they have, including funding, population, home pitch and others, mean that they alone should be split to save the inter- county game and help all counties.

splitting Dublin will not help majority of counties. There is plenty of counties who would see making super8s as a major achievement. A 2nd Dublin side would affect many counties chances of making a super8 stage and Dublin being split will not save the inter county game or help all counties.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

what is playing population? Potential of growth far larger in Dublin in capital with far more who'll not have experience playing gaa compared to the very rural county cork. .
Sponsorship is higher in Dublin bit that doesn't mean and cannot mean that development funding should have to be lower. You cant put the two together.

.

Registered players have been detailed already on this thread. Feel free to use the search function yourself, I'm not going to get them for you.

Are you seriously trying to pretend that the playing population and/ or population growth in Dublin will justify the absurd funding? Or to put it another way, you're saying the population growth will result in something approaching 13 times the population of Cork in Dublin in the short to medium term?

When you say "very rural county Cork", you realise the third biggest city on the island, second biggest in the Republic is in the county? Which is forecasting substantial population growth.

You absolutely can put GD funds and sponsorship together. Money is money. All sponsorship should be pooled together for everyone to benefit anyway.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

splitting Dublin will not help majority of counties. There is plenty of counties who would see making super8s as a major achievement. A 2nd Dublin side would affect many counties chances of making a super8 stage and Dublin being split will not save the inter county game or help all counties.

It will help everyone. Not splitting Dublin will result in the All-Ireland competition dying a death the same way the Leinster championship has.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Registered players have been detailed already on this thread. Feel free to use the search function yourself, I'm not going to get them for you.

Are you seriously trying to pretend that the playing population and/ or population growth in Dublin will justify the absurd funding? Or to put it another way, you're saying the population growth will result in something approaching 13 times the population of Cork in Dublin in the short to medium term?

When you say "very rural county Cork", you realise the third biggest city on the island, second biggest in the Republic is in the county? Which is forecasting substantial population growth.

You absolutely can put GD funds and sponsorship together. Money is money. All sponsorship should be pooled together for everyone to benefit anyway.

Dublin deserve a lot of the funding they get in development funding when you look at the number of people there.
I'm talking about rural cork as representative of many areas of country as the GAA is very much first sport for majority of people and kids. That isnt really the same in a city with a much wider range of activities on offer.
Should difference be as much as it is no but solution isnt splitting Dublin. What happens if the two dublin sides were to be very successful in comparison to all other counties I assume you would then want them split again. You cant compare Dublin to many other counties who really only ever aspire of a provincial title success every so often. And splitting Dublin makes that potential provincial success so much harder for a lot of leinster counties.
Sponsorship cannot be pooled. All counties get shares of the competition sponsorship but each is entitled to their own sponsorship as well. Like Barcelona real Madrid dont share their sponsorship deals but do share in the la liga sponsorship deals.

It will help everyone. Not splitting Dublin will result in the All-Ireland competition dying a death the same way the Leinster championship has.

it doesnt help everyone as splitting Dublin makes many leinster counties chances of making latter stages of championship harder. It also affects qualifiers more. It doesnt help dubs either as there will be no real affiliation to the sides. Everything in GAA is about parish and county not a regional part of a county

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Have you any proof to back up this assertion? Id have serious reservations about it personally. Kids in these rural schools might not get the chance to play at all because they may not be able to field teams or have very poor facilities. Whereas there will be no child in dublin who wishes to play gaa, not having the opportunity to do so. Some might not want to play, but then some wont want to play everywhere. There will be more in dublin simply because there are more people, but that is simply mathematical logic rather than anything else.
This thing about kids having more sports in the capital is quite spuriousto he honest about it. In any other walk of life, the idea that the lad down in ballygobackward with absolutely minimal facilities is somehow better equipped to play the game than guys with coaches and facilities coming out their ears, would frankly never be given consideration.

Splitting Dublin helps every single county, wirhout exception, by virtue of the fact that it gives them a fairer chance.
The fact that you accept that a second dublin team would make the super 8s, highlights how warranted the split is. Truth be told, they could go much further than the super 8s.

in no way can it be shown splitting Dublin will help every county. Fairer chance at what exactly? A split Dublin will not help wicklows, Carlows or many other counties.
The issue about choice of sports is very much an issue. It is far easier to have alternatives and multiple alternative activities to be involved in in a large city compared to many counties or at least areas within those counties.
I said a second Dublin side may make a super 8s but again how does that aid other counties as it then closes off another spot for another county who would make it if just one Dublin side. Splitting Dublin makes far more issues than it solves

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

in no way can it be shown splitting Dublin will help every county. Fairer chance at what exactly? A split Dublin will not help wicklows, Carlows or many other counties.
The issue about choice of sports is very much an issue. It is far easier to have alternatives and multiple alternative activities to be involved in in a large city compared to many counties or at least areas within those counties.
I said a second Dublin side may make a super 8s but again how does that aid other counties as it then closes off another spot for another county who would make it if just one Dublin side. Splitting Dublin makes far more issues than it solves

Its basic logic man. When the one majorly out of kilter county is brought closer into line with the average, it gives everyone else a fairer chance, without exception.
The other ills of carlow or wicklow are not connected to dublin and so should be treated as such. Are you actually trying to suggest that every issue in the gaa must be fixed in one move, or no move can be made? What a load of nonsense.
Re alternatives. What sports are only available in dublin and nowhere else? And which of them are hoovering up so many kids that it is hampering development to the point that a school down the country that can barely field a team are better equipped than the masses of those in dublin?? These phantom choices simply dont exist.
Your logic is very wishy washy. Give some actual details please.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well in fairness, if they can ok massive financial doping, this would be easily on the cards.
Re splitting fingal from dublin, why? I dont think that is really fair, you are basically offering fingal as the sacrificial lamb there. Dublin should simply be recast as a province (as it already has been in terms of funding) and split into 2 county teams..

there is no justifiable reason to call Dublin a province or region. If we are going down that route then the whole inter county structure should be thrown out as it's no longer about county identity. And it cant simply be split Dublin but alter many other large counties as well.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Yes there is justifiable reason - several of them. They have been explained to you numerous times at length.
No I wouldnt subscribe to that at all, nor would any reasonable person. The system needs 2 tweaks. Split dublin and then offer amalgamation to certain counties. Then just lay back and watch it flourish as a sport. The money dublin bring in now would be dwarfed by what would come in, in that scenario, in my opinion.

Re being about county identity, funny there was no worry about that when dublin pushed to be funded as a province. Can you explain that?

like splitting Dublin would help the smaller counties. Which isnt true. Dublin split in two would still beat a lot of counties on fairly regular basis so that isnt true.
And amalgamation isnt needed either. Counties need to accept there should be tiers within the championship unless you go wholesale and have a draft system and ignore the county system altogether at the top level.
The sport wouldnt flourish if you just amalgamate teams who have no history of playing together and have always seen these sides as rivals. Welsh rugby in the pro era is perfect example of that. Look at the regions and their black of success

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Again, splitting Dublin is not being offered as a silver bullet for every ill in the gaa. Your insistence to address it as such is disingenuous. You already know that voluntary amalgamation has been offered as an option for smaller counties that you speak of above. You seem to deliberately post propaganda on this topic.

no I'm just sick of the narrative that some believe that Dublin have to be split in order to fix a lot of problems they didnt cause and fix things that splitting will not actually fix.
I'm not a dub. Dont care at all and would love to see someone beat them in 2020 but just dont see splitting them helping many counties improve in areas that they should and in areas that are perfectly within their own control/means whatever to do so.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But you arent offering any reasonable alternatives, or disproving any of this 'narrative' in any way for that matter.
As you already know, nobody has claimed that it is to fix all these issues that you are talking about. It is a blatant straw man argument, that you keep repeating.
I dont care where you are from.

You don’t have an argument or reasonable alternative , again if two Dublin sides went on to win say 8 All Ireland’s between them per decade, it’s still only going to be you maintaining that the teams have an unfair advantage... you’ll be anti BOTH teams having the best of training facilities, having the best support staff, the best coaches and assets.. where NOW... all Dublin players, manager, coaches, medical personnel have busy day jobs, family commitments, when it comes to training all they got too are pitches, goalposts, balls and coaches, they go there after work, after family commitments are dealt with, all times of the year, all weather with a desire, drive, team ethic like any county. Dublin have their **** together, on the pitch and off it, nobody will apologize for that...deal with it and take the lemon out of your mouth.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Your spiel about dublin players and coaches applies to all players and coaches across the country, save for the massive commute that the dubs dont have to face into. Again, only highlighting your lack of understanding of the situation as a whole there. I find it depressing that you would not realise any of that.

As for having their **** together - they were financially doped on an industrial scale. If they actually had their **** together, even remotely - such were their advantages as it stood, that wouldnt have been required in the first place. Dublin are a county who need 15 times the average population and 17 times the payment per capita on that 15x population to actually win something. Those are damning figures. An objective observer would probably say that dublin was closer to a basket case than a success, even with their 5 in a row.

His point was about players, coaches and county boards having their act together both on and off the pitch. Given your username, you might want to consider staying a bit more quiet on the efficacy of off-pitch activity.

blanch152 wrote: »

His point was about players, coaches and county boards having their act together both on and off the pitch. Given your username, you might want to consider staying a bit more quiet on the efficacy of off-pitch activity.

He never mentioned county boards at all.
If he had Im entitled to discuss them also. I wasnt on the mayo county board, why wouldnt I be able to? I can only assume your flat out lie about the county board being in his post was to descend the thing into a mud slinging contest, because you cant counter the points that actually were being made...