Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

odyssey06 · 18-12-2019 01:35PM

Geuze wrote: »

Are you sure about the wine?
Were there not some fairly big increases in excise duty on wine during the last decade?

Wines have gone up 2-3 euros since 2010 due to 'flat' wine duty increase.
This has the biggest % increase on wines under €10 which represent the bulk of purchases.
Used to be able to get drinkable bottles in ALDI and LIDL for €5 or under.

In France, you can get drinkable bottles for €3. Irish whiskey was cheaper there too than here.

the beer revolu · 18-12-2019 01:38PM

Geuze wrote: »

Are you sure about the wine?

Were there not some fairly big increases in excise duty on wine during the last decade?

The cheapest wine is still around €5.
Back then it was £5 - probably better quality that the €5 now but that was the floor price as I remember .

easypazz · 18-12-2019 01:39PM

Geuze wrote: »

While Jameson has been available for 20 euro, I would not agree with the description: "readily available".

You have got to keep an eye out for these deals, they usually only last for a few days, and/or there are quotas.

Has it been available at 20? Technically, yes.

Has it been available at 20, in many different stores, for many consecutive weeks = no.

Under 20? I've never seen that.

Tesco was 2 for €35 a few weeks ago, even came with 2 free glasses in a gift box. Didn't last long to be fair.

Dunnes had it for €20/700ml a few weeks ago before applying vouchers so worked out at €21.42 for a litre.

All this was posted here.

I accept you need to keep an eye out for the bargains but if you wanted to buy say 20 x 700ml bottles between the middle of October and the end of December there are ample opportunities.

facehugger99 · 18-12-2019 01:48PM

the beer revolu wrote: »

The cheapest wine is still around €5.
Back then it was £5 - probably better quality that the €5 now but that was the floor price as I remember .

My mid-90's recollection is that is was around £7-8 for a cheap bottle at the local off-license. I suppose you may have got it for a fiver if you went hunting but it was generally around that.

Pints were about £2 - so there was feck all difference between having a bottle of wine at home or 4 pints out in the pub.

Nowadays the same 4 pints will be costing you around €20, whereas you'll get a selection of wine in Lidl or Aldi for €6-7 ( i would say better quality than the mid-90's cheap stuff) - it's a huge swing in the on vs off license price.

odyssey06 · 18-12-2019 01:50PM

easypazz wrote: »

Tesco was 2 for €35 a few weeks ago, even came with 2 free glasses in a gift box. Didn't last long to be fair.

God forbid you should be out of the country during the couple of days when this once a year offer was running. Maybe you were up North filling your boot with even cheaper booze though so that's alright.
I don't know where you are going down this rabbit hole, but it's just a distraction and you're not convincing anyone who has seen the drinks aisle in other EU countries such as France or Latvia.

Hotblack Desiato · 18-12-2019 02:06PM

forzacalcio wrote: »

Must agree with easypazz here. Dunnes have Jameson for €20 at least 4 times per year including now. I have bought them for my brother's every Christmas for the last 3 years for €20. So yes, it's often.

Wrong. It's Christmas and possibly Easter, but not other bank holidays. I check the price regularly and I'm in Dunnes every week.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9 · 18-12-2019 02:07PM

Commotion Ocean wrote: »

The government are set to bring in minimum alcohol pricing.

A slab of 24 cans will have a minimum price of €48 and a bottle of spirits will be a minimum of €28.

Ultimate nanny state bolloxogy and pandering again to the vitners association.

I'm on touch site, so link to follow.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1124/834033-alcohol-research-rcsi/

(Misspelling in the headline ... no surprises coming from that North Korean unionised crap rag anyway.)

This is absolute nonsense in my opinion. Even the cheapest of beers (shop own brand) will have to be sold at €2 per can (1 Euro per unit of alcohol). Naggins will be a minimum of €8, 70cl bottles will be €28, cans of beer €2 and a whopping €40 for a litre of spirits.

We are heading on a slippery slope towards a fascist Nazi-style dictatorship. Ireland is a First World country, I believe in capitalism. If someone over the legal drinking age wants to buy a can of beer at 50 cents and a shop is offering the cans at such a price, then why should a Hitler-style government stop them?

TL/DR
what is the cheapest slab now?

odyssey06 · 18-12-2019 02:11PM

the beer revolu wrote: »

The cheapest wine is still around €5.
Back then it was £5 - probably better quality that the €5 now but that was the floor price as I remember .

There's wines for €4 in ALDI and LIDL ...
ALDI one I'd only use for cooking with.
I wouldn't even use the LIDL ones for cooking with.

Back in 2013 the €4 ALDI Baron St Jean red was actually nice chilled, was still produced in France back then.
Then the government jacked up the wine duty - obviously they singled out wine cos we don't produce any. Blatant.

JohnnyFlash · 18-12-2019 02:13PM

Romeo Tasty Color wrote: »

TL/DR
what is the cheapest slab now?

Got 48 cans of Guinness for 40 eurons in Dunnes recently.

wonga77 · 18-12-2019 02:15PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

They singled out wine because the miserable fcukers knew that wine drinking was on the up as more and more chose to stay at home instead of heading to the pub

easypazz · 18-12-2019 02:17PM

wonga77 wrote: »

They singled out wine because the miserable fcukers knew that wine drinking was on the up as more and more chose to stay at home instead of heading to the pub

Somebody had to bail out the bankers.

Hotblack Desiato · 18-12-2019 02:29PM

the beer revolu wrote: »

Back then, I could buy a can of 5% lager for £1 -nothing really cheaper than that- according to CSO calculator, that's €2 in today's money.

But today, we can buy a can of 5% lager for €1 or less.

What brand of 5% lager are you getting for €1/500mL or less? and where?

4%, 4.3% if you're lucky, then yes, when sold below cost but these are exceptional offers and the supermarkets will make it back elsewhere.

But today we can buy a bottle of cheap plonk for €5

Even Lidl/Aldi wines aren't normally €5.

I think it's fair to say that in 25 years, booze has effectively halved in price.

We're just getting ripped off less than we used to. Also supermarkets weren't allowed discount alcohol back then.

Padraig Mor · 18-12-2019 02:45PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

What brand of 5% lager are you getting for €1/500mL or less? and where?

4%, 4.3% if you're lucky, then yes, when sold below cost but these are exceptional offers and the supermarkets will make it back elsewhere.

They're not sold below cost in most cases.

Even Lidl/Aldi wines aren't normally €5.

They start at €4.

cadaliac · 18-12-2019 03:54PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Really, nothing. The bank bail out, blood transfusion scandal, HSE, education. They all rank lower on your scale than the price of off licence alcohol?

You need to reassess your perspectives.

People do get a say. Firstly in terms of telling their local TDs. Then there is an election coming. Thirdly, boycott. Both off licence and pubs if this is every passed.

We each have far more power than we think, but we need to have the desire to use it.

Seriously - read that again with a straight face.
I get your anti-alcohol, but really? "We have a say"?
I could put a few things into perspective (Children's hospital for one) - but this is a thread about MUP - so why don't you "reassess your perspectives".
I haven't read such a condescending comment in quite a while.

18-12-2019 03:58PM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

They start at €4.

Lidl in Germany they start at 1.

Geuze · 18-12-2019 04:46PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Pints were about £2 - so there was feck all difference between having a bottle of wine at home or 4 pints out in the pub.

Nowadays the same 4 pints will be costing you around €20, whereas you'll get a selection of wine in Lidl or Aldi for €6-7 ( i would say better quality than the mid-90's cheap stuff) - it's a huge swing in the on vs off license price.

This is true.

The (pub pint / off-licence) ratio has changed.

It is possible to get 50cl cans Guinness for 1 euro, if you watch for deals, and then buy in bulk.

Even in rural Ireland, pints are what, 4.20-4.40?

568ml at home is 1.10, so pubs are 4x home prices.

That ratio has increased over the last 20 years.

In the summer of 1993 I paid IR£1.85 for a pint in a Galway city pub, and I'd say a 50cl can at the time was what? Not less than IR£1 anyways.

So the ratio has increased a lot.

Greentopia · 18-12-2019 05:22PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I mean I could almost live with that, but keep your hands off my f*cking beer you nerdy little sh*t Harris, look at the weather outside, and he wants to take our booze away. Grrrr.

Why not brew your own? that's what my partner will do if he moves here to Ireland. I regularly go to his country and it's way way cheaper to buy a decent bottle of local wine or good beer there, but that's because they don't have the same level of problem drinkers there as here (people drink more responsibly), and the government doesn't take as much taxes on alcohol.

I also go to Sweden where strong beer and other alcohol is only sold (outside of bars and restaurants) in state run shops, inspired by the temperance movement. You can buy class 1 'light beer' -under 2.25% alcohol in any supermarket, class 11 up to 3.5% if you're 18 or over, and then Class 111 and other strong alcohol only in the Systembolaget if you're over 20, where you will have to show official ID if they're in any doubt about your age.

I think that's a good idea to bring here as it controls what and where it's sold and to whom, and their research shows it has led to big reductions in alcohol related injury and deaths.

Problem in this country is we still have a culture of binge drinking leading to social and health problems. If people cannot self regulate their habits (and any town or city at the weekend shows they can't); if we're not going to educate our young people about responsible safe levels of drinking and responsible behaviour towards others (starting in preschool), or provide alternative ways to have a good time without alcohol then the only recourse left is high taxes or make it harder for people to impulse buy strong alcohol.

It sucks that people like me and others who only have a bottle of wine once a month and a can or bottle of beer once or twice a week has to pay for the irresponsible behaviour of others with high alcohol prices, but that's the price of living here and nothing new...same for insurance, the cost of housing, the people we choose to elect... it runs right through Irish society.

easypazz · 18-12-2019 05:23PM

Geuze wrote: »

This is true.

The (pub pint / off-licence) ratio has changed.

It is possible to get 50cl cans Guinness for 1 euro, if you watch for deals, and then buy in bulk.

Even in rural Ireland, pints are what, 4.20-4.40?

568ml at home is 1.10, so pubs are 4x home prices.

That ratio has increased over the last 20 years.

In the summer of 1993 I paid IR£1.85 for a pint in a Galway city pub, and I'd say a 50cl can at the time was what? Not less than IR£1 anyways.

So the ratio has increased a lot.

I suppose the main drivers in pub price increases are minimum wage, insurance and rates.

I think I remember working for £1 when pints were £1.5

Today if I was earning €10 (~min. wage) pints would be €5 so I could afford 2 pints every hour I worked.

Back then I could afford a pint after 1.5 hours.

However back then 15 year olds could be barmen until 2am and £1 was a lot to a 15 year old.

18-12-2019 05:26PM

Greentopia wrote: »

Why not brew your own? that's what my partner will do if he moves here to Ireland. I regularly go to his country and it's way way cheaper to buy a decent bottle of local wine or good beer there, but that's because they don't have the same level of problem drinkers there as here (people drink more responsibly), and the government doesn't take as much taxes on alcohol.

I also go to Sweden where strong beer and other alcohol is only sold (outside of bars and restaurants) in state run shops, inspired by the temperance movement. You can buy class 1 'light beer' -under 2.25% alcohol in any supermarket, class 11 up to 3.5% if you're 18 or over, and then Class 111 and other strong alcohol only in the Systembolaget if you're over 20, where you will have to show official ID if they're in any doubt about your age.

I think that's a good idea to bring here as it controls what and where it's sold and to whom, and their research shows it has led to big reductions in alcohol related injury and deaths.

Problem in this country is we still have a culture of binge drinking leading to social and health problems. If people cannot self regulate their habits (and any town or city at the weekend shows they can't); if we're not going to educate our young people about responsible safe levels of drinking and responsible behaviour towards others (starting in preschool), or provide alternative ways to have a good time without alcohol then the only recourse left is high taxes or make it harder for people to impulse buy strong alcohol.

It sucks that people like me and others who only have a bottle of wine once a month and a can or bottle of beer once or twice a week has to pay for the irresponsible behaviour of others with high alcohol prices, but that's the price of living here and nothing new...same for insurance, the cost of housing, the people we choose to elect... it runs right through Irish society.

"Thats the price we pay for living here"

Jesus you'd swear Ireland was some kind of Shangri La, Nirvana paradise.

easypazz · 18-12-2019 05:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

"Thats the price we pay for living here"

Jesus you'd swear Ireland was some kind of Shangri La, Nirvana paradise.

Wages here are 3 times Latvia. We really cant have it all.

murphyebass · 18-12-2019 05:37PM

Funny how this thread started 3 years ago and if anything cheap booze is more available than ever!

It’s not going to stop any time soon. There’s no appetite for any government to stop it. If there was it’d be done by now.

Happy cheap boozy Christmas all :-)

elperello · 18-12-2019 05:41PM

It's interesting to compare different countries and different times but the bottom line and the reason for this thread is that our current Government is going to make us pay an artificially high price for drink in Ireland in 2020.

18-12-2019 05:47PM

easypazz wrote: »

Wages here are 3 times Latvia. We really cant have it all.

"We can't have it all" What all do we have? What do we get in return for this additional stealth tax?

What do we already get in return for the taxes we already pay?

You are full of soundbites, but slim on facts.

elperello · 18-12-2019 05:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

"We can't have it all" What all do we have? What do we get in return for this additional stealth tax?

What do we already get in return for the taxes we already pay?

You are full of soundbites, but slim on facts.

And the really cruel irony is that it's not even a tax in the normal way but a gift to the drinks trade.

Hotblack Desiato · 18-12-2019 06:06PM

Greentopia wrote: »

I think that's a good idea to bring here as it controls what and where it's sold and to whom, and their research shows it has led to big reductions in alcohol related injury and deaths.

We've brought down our alcohol consumption substantially over the last 20 years, and absolutely slashed road deaths, without doing any of the above nanny state measures which infringe on the freedom of law-abiding citizens.

I imagine the state-owned offy isn't open late or on Sundays or bank holidays, either???

Problem in this country is we still have a culture of binge drinking leading to social and health problems. If people cannot self regulate their habits (and any town or city at the weekend shows they can't); if we're not going to educate our young people about responsible safe levels of drinking and responsible behaviour towards others (starting in preschool), or provide alternative ways to have a good time without alcohol then the only recourse left is high taxes or make it harder for people to impulse buy strong alcohol.

Two massive problems are the lack of any alternative social outlets, and the almost complete lack of public order policing. Anyone acting the dick on a night out should get a night in the cells and a court appearance the next morning, stay in the cells until you pay.

It sucks that people like me and others who only have a bottle of wine once a month and a can or bottle of beer once or twice a week has to pay for the irresponsible behaviour of others with high alcohol prices, but that's the price of living here and nothing new...same for insurance, the cost of housing, the people we choose to elect... it runs right through Irish society.

It's the refusal to deal with the people who actually cause the problems. The public order offenders, anti-social behaviour-ers, insurance scammers, etc.

18-12-2019 06:40PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Two massive problems are the lack of any alternative social outlets, and the almost complete lack of public order policing. Anyone acting the dick on a night out should get a night in the cells and a court appearance the next morning, stay in the cells until you pay.

I spoke before about living in the Czech Republic. I was drinking with mostly Irish, Scotsmen, Poles, Macedonians and the occasional Czech. In a country with 24 hour licensing, you could buy vodka at the tram stop at 6am. Pubs didn't close or if they did, you went to the one next door that was still open.

In an environment like that with irish and Scottish men drinking cheap alcohol all night you'd assume things got messy regularly.

But surprisingly no, everyone got drunk at their own speed, and people went home when they'd had enough. Or popped in for a quick one and went away again. It wasn't a big deal because it was always available.

Over there, like here, drunk and disorderly is an offence. And its treated seriously. And be disorderly or obstreperous and the cops arrive instantly.

Go down O'Connell Street at 1am. Boisterous annoying drunks and not a guard to be seen anywhere.

Thats our main problem with drink. Zero enforcement. No drunk tanks. No internal security.

Greentopia · 18-12-2019 06:51PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Deleted User wrote: »

"Thats the price we pay for living here"

Jesus you'd swear Ireland was some kind of Shangri La, Nirvana paradise.

That's not what I meant.

I mean if I'm going to continue to choose to stay living here I have to accept high alcohol prices as a reality of life because the government clearly don't want to do anything that would take a more nuanced and systemic approach involving long term planning and investment in education and services, than introduce MAP.

18-12-2019 06:58PM

Greentopia wrote: »

That's not what I meant.

I mean if I'm going to continue to choose to stay living here I have to accept high alcohol prices as a reality of life because the government clearly don't want to do anything that would take a more nuanced and systemic approach involving long term planning and investment in education and services, than introduce MAP.

I read this four times and still don't understand what you mean.

easypazz · 18-12-2019 07:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I read this four times and still don't understand what you mean.

I think what he is saying is that if you think there are better countries to live in you should go live there rather than whinging about everything here.

elperello · 18-12-2019 07:14PM

easypazz wrote: »

I think what he is saying is that if you think there are better countries to live in you should go live there rather than whinging about everything here.

Is that what you think yourself?
I'd say it's more nuanced than that and he/she is espousing a pragmatic approach to the issue.
A kind of trade off.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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