Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

salmocab · 17-12-2019 6:51pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

At least Kearney has at last been jettisoned. He's 18 months past his sell by date.

He was past his sell by date 18 months ago but he was still better than the alternatives back then.

Shefwedfan · 17-12-2019 6:54pm

Faugheen wrote: »

A clear lie but no harm getting the hyperbole in there.

I wouldn't bother.....

It was only 12 months or so ago Rob was one of the best players on the pitch v NZ.....

Granny15 · 17-12-2019 7:36pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Actually he did hit those numbers consecutively, 48 tackles over 2 games, none missed the key point though is most were dominant attack disrupting hits vs just tackles, His performance eclipsed anything JOD has done in about 2/3 years - so the coaches have obviously seen more potential and have picked accordingly

I've seen all of Munsters games this season, also saw him get done for 2 tries at the end of the munster sarries game, slow off the base and didnt shut vunipola down, then slow off the base off a ruck for the second Farrel I dont think wants to see that in his six nations side

48 tackles but what the stats don’t tell you is if he put his body into those tackles. Small players learn to chop at the ankles of larger players to put them down and not get bounced and trip them up but a player of his size should be putting players backwards in contact. Chop tackling doesn’t stop the forward momentum of players and is a way of conserving energy as opposed to the energy sapping toll big hits take out of you to stop a forward gaining ground on the gainline. To stop the gainline being won by opposition (and it is these very little margins on which test rugby is considered) you have to put your body on the line into EVERY tackle to stop the player going forward in contact. If he starts doing that I would be interested to see if his tackle count is still as high. As it is chop tackles amount to at least a third of his tackle stats

And the good players do it without plaudits or high numbers in the tackling stats but their contribution is necessary if not more valuable than a player with high stats but who chops. It’s why I don’t think stats paint a full picture of what is needed to win a test rugby match. Moreover, he seems labored and tired getting back into the line whereas VDF is a Duracell Bunny and jumps back into position. I have question marks over his fitness and engine for top level rugby having said that he has the physique if he works on aerobic and anaerobic fitness. I would like to see him hitting more rucks and posing a turnover threat to differentiate himself from the competition there in his position at the moment. It’s these tiny nuances that raise question marks for me.

Shefwedfan · 17-12-2019 7:59pm

Granny15 wrote: »

48 tackles but what the stats don’t tell you is if he put his body into those tackles. Small players learn to chop at the ankles of larger players to put them down and not get bounced and trip them up but a player of his size should be putting players backwards in contact. Chop tackling doesn’t stop the forward momentum of players and is a way of conserving energy as opposed to the energy sapping toll big hits take out of you to stop a forward gaining ground on the gainline. To stop the gainline being won by opposition (and it is these very little margins on which test rugby is considered) you have to put your body on the line into EVERY tackle to stop the player going forward in contact. If he starts doing that I would be interested to see if his tackle count is still as high. As it is chop tackles amount to at least a third of his tackle stats

And the good players do it without plaudits or high numbers in the tackling stats but their contribution is necessary if not more valuable than a player with high stats but who chops. It’s why I don’t think stats paint a full picture of what is needed to win a test rugby match. Moreover, he seems labored and tired getting back into the line whereas VDF is a Duracell Bunny and jumps back into position. I have question marks over his fitness and engine for top level rugby having said that he has the physique if he works on aerobic and anaerobic fitness. I would like to see him hitting more rucks and posing a turnover threat to differentiate himself from the competition there in his position at the moment. It’s these tiny nuances that raise question marks for me.

Well I’m sure if it raises question marks for you then he should be dumped from the ireland and Leinster squad

In all seriousness what are people going on about? These are young players going to first camp and we are coming up with the most mundane tripe to give reasons why they shouldn’t be in the camp

They are not even playing a game.....

aloooof · 17-12-2019 8:41pm

Buer wrote: »

Jesus Christ. The seasonal dick measuring contest is in full swing right on time. Neither JOD nor Connors have a sniff of being involved in the 6N. It's a seasonal training camp. It's an opportunity to integrate some guys who have really impressed and will potentially be involved in the future given we are at the beginning of a new phase for the national team.

The bloke who is very fortunate to be there ahead of the likes of Murphy or JOD is Max Deegan but, again, it's an investment in the future.

I actually thought it was fairly civil in comparison to some of the recent conversations on here! :pac:

In any case, apologies if I contributed. But I was careful not to criticise Connors or suggest he shouldn't be in camp (it's great experience for him). Just thought some of the criticisms of JOD, namely his form for the last 2 years (he was injured for 10 months of it) and at fault for the 2nd try v Saracens (he wasn't) were flawed.

Stout Warrior · 17-12-2019 8:44pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

At least Kearney has at last been jettisoned. He's 18 months past his sell by date.

Don’t get me started on Kearney

Granny15 · 17-12-2019 8:56pm

Buer wrote: »

Jesus Christ. The seasonal dick measuring contest is in full swing right on time. Neither JOD nor Connors have a sniff of being involved in the 6N. It's a seasonal training camp. It's an opportunity to integrate some guys who have really impressed and will potentially be involved in the future given we are at the beginning of a new phase for the national team.

The bloke who is very fortunate to be there ahead of the likes of Murphy or JOD is Max Deegan but, again, it's an investment in the future.

Deegan isn’t tough enough for international at this stage. He needs to get through a mountain of work and compliment hard nosed graft to his game before he earns my backing for any of the teams he’s in.

salmocab · 17-12-2019 8:58pm

Granny15 wrote: »

Deegan isn’t tough enough for international at this stage. He needs to get through a mountain of work and compliment hard nosed graft to his game before he earns my backing for any of the teams he’s in.

He actually said on the radio the other day that he craved the backing of nobody’s on the internet

Squidgy Black · 17-12-2019 8:59pm

Granny15 wrote: »

Deegan isn’t tough enough for international at this stage. He needs to get through a mountain of work and compliment hard nosed graft to his game before he earns my backing for any of the teams he’s in.

Andy Farrell better recall him from the training squad so, anonymous poster on boards.ie doesn't back a player so clearly doesn't deserve to be in the setup....

Shefwedfan · 17-12-2019 9:06pm

Granny15 wrote: »

Deegan isn’t tough enough for international at this stage. He needs to get through a mountain of work and compliment hard nosed graft to his game before he earns my backing for any of the teams he’s in.

Im sure Deegan is devastated with the news that you are not backing him .....absolutely devastated

b.gud · 18-12-2019 8:08am

Boards:all we want is for the coach to pick players on form rather than reputation
Coach: picks players in form
Boards:

18-12-2019 8:25am

Listening to the Joe podcast, Trimble thinks Dave Kearney has always been seriously underrated. Himself and Fla reckon he's back to his best.

Faugheen · 18-12-2019 8:27am

Deleted User wrote: »

Listening to the Joe podcast, Trimble thinks Dave Kearney has always been seriously underrated. Himself and Fla reckon he's back to his best.

People just have a thing against the Kearneys which is based on nothing other than the fact that they just don’t like them.

Quinlan, Fla and Trimble all talking him up now. No coincidence.

aloooof · 18-12-2019 8:34am

Deleted User wrote: »

Listening to the Joe podcast, Trimble thinks Dave Kearney has always been seriously underrated. Himself and Fla reckon he's back to his best.

The bit about the lazy eye was brilliant.

Bazzo · 18-12-2019 8:49am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Listening to the Joe podcast, Trimble thinks Dave Kearney has always been seriously underrated. Himself and Fla reckon he's back to his best.

Never bother listening to it. The way they flagrantly treat Connacht as an afterthought annoys me more than it probably should.

Squidgy Black · 18-12-2019 9:01am

Bazzo wrote: »

Never bother listening to it. The way they flagrantly treat Connacht as an afterthought annoys me more than it probably should.

In fairness it's fairly Munster and Ulster biased, they even admitted on the last episode they normally just gloss over Leinster too.

18-12-2019 10:03am

Bazzo wrote: »

Never bother listening to it. The way they flagrantly treat Connacht as an afterthought annoys me more than it probably should.

They did a segment on Connacht this week, fairly in-depth on the Gloucester game. I'd say it was a good 30 seconds long - worth a listen.

18-12-2019 11:10am

aloooof wrote: »

The bit about the lazy eye was brilliant.

That entire segment on Justin Harrison was hysterical. I would happily listen to an entire podcast with these lads discussing Justin Harrison sh1t talking other players.

Eod100 · 18-12-2019 11:28am

Probably off topic so feel free to move if so but this is interesting. https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1207257354858876928

errlloyd · 18-12-2019 12:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Listening to the Joe podcast, Trimble thinks Dave Kearney has always been seriously underrated. Himself and Fla reckon he's back to his best.

I never miss that podcast, but I also don't take it seriously at all. The three lads are having the craic.

sydthebeat · 18-12-2019 12:06pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Probably off topic so feel free to move if so but this is interesting. https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1207257354858876928

at the right price anything is possible.

would 50 years of FAI rent and fees on the property be worth 29 million accumulated?

if so, take hand and all

molloyjh · 18-12-2019 12:12pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I never miss that podcast, but I also don't take it seriously at all. The three lads are having the craic.

I really enjoy it from that perspective too, but I also like what Fla brings in terms of a bit more insight at times. Even Trimble talking about the detailed environment in Ireland camp and then Fla talking about the balance needed was interesting.

aloooof · 18-12-2019 12:26pm

molloyjh wrote: »

I really enjoy it from that perspective too, but I also like what Fla brings in terms of a bit more insight at times. Even Trimble talking about the detailed environment in Ireland camp and then Fla talking about the balance needed was interesting.

I think Fla is definitely the most insightful on it, to the point that he was amazed a few weeks ago at how good Barry Murphy's summary of the Leinster Glasgow game was.

Squidgy Black · 18-12-2019 12:36pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

at the right price anything is possible.

would 50 years of FAI rent and fees on the property be worth 29 million accumulated?

if so, take hand and all

There's a good point made further down in that thread, would the FAI in it's current financial state be able to pay a fair rent for the stadium to cover costs etc for the IRFU per game? They're already head over heels in debt, there's a good chance they'll continue to lose money hand over fist for the next couple of years even after the buyout, there's no guarantee that the FAI would stump up the cash when prompted for matches.

salmocab · 18-12-2019 12:37pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

at the right price anything is possible.

would 50 years of FAI rent and fees on the property be worth 29 million accumulated?

if so, take hand and all

It would also mean all income from naming rights etc and other events concerts etc would be the Irfu’s for the 50 years. Really it will be a simple maths of is it worth it at the price they can get it.

sydthebeat · 18-12-2019 12:45pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

There's a good point made further down in that thread, would the FAI in it's current financial state be able to pay a fair rent for the stadium to cover costs etc for the IRFU per game? They're already head over heels in debt, there's a good chance they'll continue to lose money hand over fist for the next couple of years even after the buyout, there's no guarantee that the FAI would stump up the cash when prompted for matches.

yeah thats all part of the negotiations im sure... what would stop FAI from playing at Dalymount etc...

and theres a fair point made as well, that if FAI went into liquidation, would that share in the aviva be a fraction of the cost?
what happens to stadCo and other cooperative companies the FAi has investments with?

Shefwedfan · 18-12-2019 12:58pm

It all depends on current IRFU finances

I know the 2018 bumper year brought in a huge profit for them but still that was only a couple of million

If they take over the stadium they have to pay for it. So that could mean less money going to grass roots or to the provinces. Of course the CVC deal with 6 nations and with the pro14 could in fact cover the cost of the stadium and then it would make sense

The FAI are a basket case, I would not expect them to host many events in it. But it is been used as one of the stadium for the European cups isnt it? the Euros or whatever it is called so they must be getting a big payday for that?

I would not let the government take control of 50% of it. They are another FAI waiting to happen

Former Former · 18-12-2019 1:03pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

yeah thats all part of the negotiations im sure... what would stop FAI from playing at Dalymount etc...

I'm guessing you haven't been to Dalymount of late...

Really, the Aviva is the only game in town for the FAI, maybe Thomond for smaller games.

sydthebeat · 18-12-2019 1:07pm

Former Former wrote: »

I'm guessing you haven't been to Dalymount of late...

Really, the Aviva is the only game in town for the FAI, maybe Thomond for smaller games.

No i havent, just took it from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_venues_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

I cant see thomond as a valid option, wont draw the crowds from dublin for international games

Shefwedfan · 18-12-2019 1:20pm

Former Former wrote: »

I'm guessing you haven't been to Dalymount of late...

Really, the Aviva is the only game in town for the FAI, maybe Thomond for smaller games.

Would they be able to drive attendance for a big game at Thomond? also would they not end up paying the IRFU anyway for using Thomond?

It might be optional for some of the smaller internationals when they can only have half the aviva full but the bigger games they would eith pay IRFU for Aviva or pay GAA for Croker

Granny15 · 18-12-2019 1:26pm

The IRFU would be mad to stump up that kind of cash when it could go better places. Stadia in Athlone, Cork and other places would be my priority rather than forking out 29M for future renting rights

There is no guarantee the FAI will rent in future and as we have been looked after in the past by other Irish sporting bodies so we will be asked to cover the backs of the FAI.

Do we really want to drive a chasm between us and another sporting body in Ireland when those bodies have worked well for us in the past?

There's more to this than just a business decision and if the IRFU take a decision in that light i think it wold be a mistake.

errlloyd · 18-12-2019 1:29pm

Whats the craic with the division of other commercial ventures in the Aviva. I've been to conferences, concerts, training days etc in the Aviva. Is that revenue currently divided? Is that revenue significant, would sole ownership allow the IRFU to get more out of it?

18-12-2019 1:32pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

FAI from playing at Dalymount etc...

There is absolutely no way Dalymount, or any other LoI stadium, would meet the requirements UEFA/FIFA have for hosting international football games. It's not possible for the FAI to use it, even if they wanted to.

salmocab · 18-12-2019 1:35pm

errlloyd wrote: »

Whats the craic with the division of other commercial ventures in the Aviva. I've been to conferences, concerts, training days etc in the Aviva. Is that revenue currently divided? Is that revenue significant, would sole ownership allow the IRFU to get more out of it?

The stadium company takes that money along with things like naming rights, the company is basically 50/50 between the two bodies, what would actually happen is the irfu would be buying the other 50% of the company so would get all the profit instead of half.

errlloyd · 18-12-2019 1:38pm

salmocab wrote: »

The stadium company takes that money along with things like naming rights, the company is basically 50/50 between the two bodies, what would actually happen is the irfu would be buying the other 50% of the company so would get all the profit instead of half.

I guess I'd love to see a balance sheet and P&L for stadco or whatever it is called. I know I won't, but I think it'd be interesting.

salmocab · 18-12-2019 1:40pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I guess I'd love to see a balance sheet and P&L for stadco or whatever it is called. I know I won't, but I think it'd be interesting.

That’s it though, the irfu have better knowledge than anyone what half the company is worth and will by far be the best placed to make a decision on whether it’s worthwhile or not.

Squidgy Black · 18-12-2019 1:51pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

There is absolutely no way Dalymount, or any other LoI stadium, would meet the requirements UEFA/FIFA have for hosting international football games. It's not possible for the FAI to use it, even if they wanted to.

Tallaght stadium is the largest LOI stadium, and even then it's only undergoing renovations to bring the capacity up to 10k. But it falls under a Category 4 stadium for UEFA so technically could be used.

18-12-2019 1:59pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Tallaght stadium is the largest LOI stadium, and even then it's only undergoing renovations to bring the capacity up to 10k. But it falls under a Category 4 stadium for UEFA so technically could be used.

Yes actually forgot about Tallaght. It's a fifth the size of Lansdowne obviously so they'd be hammering themselves in terms of ticket revenue, probably no corporate facilities etc etc.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 18-12-2019 3:18pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I guess I'd love to see a balance sheet and P&L for stadco or whatever it is called. I know I won't, but I think it'd be interesting.

Balance sheet like all Ltd companies is available from the Cro.

No p&l but there was a loss of 3 million in 2018.

aloooof · 18-12-2019 3:33pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Balance sheet like all Ltd companies is available from the Cro.

No p&l but there was a loss of 3 million in 2018.

Was it last year they sold the land in Newlands Cross?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 18-12-2019 3:36pm

aloooof wrote: »

Was it last year they sold the land in Newlands Cross?

That was an irfu sale (not new stadium whatever) but yeah.

aloooof · 18-12-2019 3:37pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

That was an irfu sale (not new stadium whatever) but yeah.

Is that sale built into the 3 million loss? Surprising if it is.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 18-12-2019 3:38pm

aloooof wrote: »

Is that sale built into the 3 million loss? Surprising if it is.

No the loss is new stadium limited.

The 27 million from newlandscross is part of the irfu accounts which had a massive profit.

aloooof · 18-12-2019 3:38pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

No the loss is new stadium limited.

The 27 million from newlandscross is part of the irfu accounts which had a massive profit.

Ah, that makes sense.

Shefwedfan · 18-12-2019 6:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Listening to the Joe podcast, Trimble thinks Dave Kearney has always been seriously underrated. Himself and Fla reckon he's back to his best.

I might have said a few weeks ago that based on his form he could be picked for Ireland in 6 nations. A few people lost the plot. Nothing has changed in my opinion. He played well v Italy in first match for Ireland.....

Played some great rugby during the WC and has kicked on.

He was always a quality player, the people who had a problem with him also had issues with R Kearney etc.....anyone that was playing instead of Zebo seem to be the issue

tototoe · 18-12-2019 6:25pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

anyone that was playing instead of Zebo seem to be the issue

Lol ..Seriously? He wasn't called Daverage for nothing

Shefwedfan · 18-12-2019 6:34pm

tototoe wrote: »

Lol ..Seriously? He wasn't called Daverage for nothing

In the 2014 6 nations win he was the only player on the pitch for every minute

If you go back to 2014 and check out here....all the talk was about why he was playing versus .........

Neil3030 · 18-12-2019 6:40pm

It is funny how certain quarters reserved a fairly potent disdain for Toner, Heaslip and the Kearneys. And yet none of these men are from Dublin, and all play (or played) a fairly by-the-numbers game, no frills, no fancy stuff. Plenty of swashbuckling, frost-tipped D4 ledge baskets came and went, but none ever seemed to trigger to similar depths.

Stout Warrior · 18-12-2019 7:30pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

It is funny how certain quarters reserved a fairly potent disdain for Toner, Heaslip and the Kearneys. And yet none of these men are from Dublin, and all play (or played) a fairly by-the-numbers game, no frills, no fancy stuff. Plenty of swashbuckling, frost-tipped D4 ledge baskets came and went, but none ever seemed to trigger to similar depths.

Would you consider James Ryan to be one of those D4 ledge baskets? He has a bright future ahead of him.

Shefwedfan · 18-12-2019 8:58pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I never miss that podcast, but I also don't take it seriously at all. The three lads are having the craic.

The quality has improved this year. Last year really with Baz and Trimble it was just two guys rambling with a bit of rugby thrown in.

Now with Fla they actually give some real insight. Especially Fla in terms of the coaching side. I skipped a few episodes last year but it is one of my favorites now.

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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