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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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    #3302
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,297 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    At least Kearney has at last been jettisoned. He's 18 months past his sell by date.

    He was past his sell by date 18 months ago but he was still better than the alternatives back then.


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    #3303
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Faugheen wrote: »
    A clear lie but no harm getting the hyperbole in there.


    I wouldn't bother.....


    It was only 12 months or so ago Rob was one of the best players on the pitch v NZ.....


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    #3304
    Granny15
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭Granny15


    kingofthekong wrote: »
    Actually he did hit those numbers consecutively, 48 tackles over 2 games, none missed the key point though is most were dominant attack disrupting hits vs just tackles, His performance eclipsed anything JOD has done in about 2/3 years - so the coaches have obviously seen more potential and have picked accordingly

    I've seen all of Munsters games this season, also saw him get done for 2 tries at the end of the munster sarries game, slow off the base and didnt shut vunipola down, then slow off the base off a ruck for the second Farrel I dont think wants to see that in his six nations side

    48 tackles but what the stats don’t tell you is if he put his body into those tackles. Small players learn to chop at the ankles of larger players to put them down and not get bounced and trip them up but a player of his size should be putting players backwards in contact. Chop tackling doesn’t stop the forward momentum of players and is a way of conserving energy as opposed to the energy sapping toll big hits take out of you to stop a forward gaining ground on the gainline. To stop the gainline being won by opposition (and it is these very little margins on which test rugby is considered) you have to put your body on the line into EVERY tackle to stop the player going forward in contact. If he starts doing that I would be interested to see if his tackle count is still as high. As it is chop tackles amount to at least a third of his tackle stats

    And the good players do it without plaudits or high numbers in the tackling stats but their contribution is necessary if not more valuable than a player with high stats but who chops. It’s why I don’t think stats paint a full picture of what is needed to win a test rugby match. Moreover, he seems labored and tired getting back into the line whereas VDF is a Duracell Bunny and jumps back into position. I have question marks over his fitness and engine for top level rugby having said that he has the physique if he works on aerobic and anaerobic fitness. I would like to see him hitting more rucks and posing a turnover threat to differentiate himself from the competition there in his position at the moment. It’s these tiny nuances that raise question marks for me.


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    #3305
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Granny15 wrote: »
    48 tackles but what the stats don’t tell you is if he put his body into those tackles. Small players learn to chop at the ankles of larger players to put them down and not get bounced and trip them up but a player of his size should be putting players backwards in contact. Chop tackling doesn’t stop the forward momentum of players and is a way of conserving energy as opposed to the energy sapping toll big hits take out of you to stop a forward gaining ground on the gainline. To stop the gainline being won by opposition (and it is these very little margins on which test rugby is considered) you have to put your body on the line into EVERY tackle to stop the player going forward in contact. If he starts doing that I would be interested to see if his tackle count is still as high. As it is chop tackles amount to at least a third of his tackle stats

    And the good players do it without plaudits or high numbers in the tackling stats but their contribution is necessary if not more valuable than a player with high stats but who chops. It’s why I don’t think stats paint a full picture of what is needed to win a test rugby match. Moreover, he seems labored and tired getting back into the line whereas VDF is a Duracell Bunny and jumps back into position. I have question marks over his fitness and engine for top level rugby having said that he has the physique if he works on aerobic and anaerobic fitness. I would like to see him hitting more rucks and posing a turnover threat to differentiate himself from the competition there in his position at the moment. It’s these tiny nuances that raise question marks for me.

    Well I’m sure if it raises question marks for you then he should be dumped from the ireland and Leinster squad

    In all seriousness what are people going on about? These are young players going to first camp and we are coming up with the most mundane tripe to give reasons why they shouldn’t be in the camp

    They are not even playing a game.....


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    #3306
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Buer wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. The seasonal dick measuring contest is in full swing right on time. Neither JOD nor Connors have a sniff of being involved in the 6N. It's a seasonal training camp. It's an opportunity to integrate some guys who have really impressed and will potentially be involved in the future given we are at the beginning of a new phase for the national team.

    The bloke who is very fortunate to be there ahead of the likes of Murphy or JOD is Max Deegan but, again, it's an investment in the future.

    I actually thought it was fairly civil in comparison to some of the recent conversations on here! :pac:

    In any case, apologies if I contributed. But I was careful not to criticise Connors or suggest he shouldn't be in camp (it's great experience for him). Just thought some of the criticisms of JOD, namely his form for the last 2 years (he was injured for 10 months of it) and at fault for the 2nd try v Saracens (he wasn't) were flawed.


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    #3307
    Stout Warrior
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 224 ✭✭Stout Warrior


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    At least Kearney has at last been jettisoned. He's 18 months past his sell by date.

    Don’t get me started on Kearney


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    #3308
    Granny15
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭Granny15


    Buer wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. The seasonal dick measuring contest is in full swing right on time. Neither JOD nor Connors have a sniff of being involved in the 6N. It's a seasonal training camp. It's an opportunity to integrate some guys who have really impressed and will potentially be involved in the future given we are at the beginning of a new phase for the national team.

    The bloke who is very fortunate to be there ahead of the likes of Murphy or JOD is Max Deegan but, again, it's an investment in the future.

    Deegan isn’t tough enough for international at this stage. He needs to get through a mountain of work and compliment hard nosed graft to his game before he earns my backing for any of the teams he’s in.


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    #3309
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,297 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Granny15 wrote: »
    Deegan isn’t tough enough for international at this stage. He needs to get through a mountain of work and compliment hard nosed graft to his game before he earns my backing for any of the teams he’s in.

    He actually said on the radio the other day that he craved the backing of nobody’s on the internet


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    #3310
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,609 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Granny15 wrote: »
    Deegan isn’t tough enough for international at this stage. He needs to get through a mountain of work and compliment hard nosed graft to his game before he earns my backing for any of the teams he’s in.

    Andy Farrell better recall him from the training squad so, anonymous poster on boards.ie doesn't back a player so clearly doesn't deserve to be in the setup....


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    #3311
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Granny15 wrote: »
    Deegan isn’t tough enough for international at this stage. He needs to get through a mountain of work and compliment hard nosed graft to his game before he earns my backing for any of the teams he’s in.


    Im sure Deegan is devastated with the news that you are not backing him .....absolutely devastated


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    #3312
    b.gud
    Registered Users Posts: 4,801 ✭✭✭b.gud


    Boards:all we want is for the coach to pick players on form rather than reputation
    Coach: picks players in form
    Boards: LyCmnDm.gif


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    #3313
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Listening to the Joe podcast, Trimble thinks Dave Kearney has always been seriously underrated. Himself and Fla reckon he's back to his best.


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    #3314
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Listening to the Joe podcast, Trimble thinks Dave Kearney has always been seriously underrated. Himself and Fla reckon he's back to his best.

    People just have a thing against the Kearneys which is based on nothing other than the fact that they just don’t like them.

    Quinlan, Fla and Trimble all talking him up now. No coincidence.


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    #3315
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Listening to the Joe podcast, Trimble thinks Dave Kearney has always been seriously underrated. Himself and Fla reckon he's back to his best.

    The bit about the lazy eye was brilliant.


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    #3316
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Listening to the Joe podcast, Trimble thinks Dave Kearney has always been seriously underrated. Himself and Fla reckon he's back to his best.

    Never bother listening to it. The way they flagrantly treat Connacht as an afterthought annoys me more than it probably should.


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    #3317
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,609 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Never bother listening to it. The way they flagrantly treat Connacht as an afterthought annoys me more than it probably should.

    In fairness it's fairly Munster and Ulster biased, they even admitted on the last episode they normally just gloss over Leinster too.


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    #3318
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Never bother listening to it. The way they flagrantly treat Connacht as an afterthought annoys me more than it probably should.

    They did a segment on Connacht this week, fairly in-depth on the Gloucester game. I'd say it was a good 30 seconds long - worth a listen.


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    #3319
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    aloooof wrote: »
    The bit about the lazy eye was brilliant.

    That entire segment on Justin Harrison was hysterical. I would happily listen to an entire podcast with these lads discussing Justin Harrison sh1t talking other players.


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    #3320
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,670 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Probably off topic so feel free to move if so but this is interesting. https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1207257354858876928


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    #3321
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,603 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Listening to the Joe podcast, Trimble thinks Dave Kearney has always been seriously underrated. Himself and Fla reckon he's back to his best.

    I never miss that podcast, but I also don't take it seriously at all. The three lads are having the craic.


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    #3322
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,137 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Probably off topic so feel free to move if so but this is interesting. https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1207257354858876928

    at the right price anything is possible.

    would 50 years of FAI rent and fees on the property be worth 29 million accumulated?

    if so, take hand and all


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    #3323
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I never miss that podcast, but I also don't take it seriously at all. The three lads are having the craic.

    I really enjoy it from that perspective too, but I also like what Fla brings in terms of a bit more insight at times. Even Trimble talking about the detailed environment in Ireland camp and then Fla talking about the balance needed was interesting.


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    #3324
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    molloyjh wrote: »
    I really enjoy it from that perspective too, but I also like what Fla brings in terms of a bit more insight at times. Even Trimble talking about the detailed environment in Ireland camp and then Fla talking about the balance needed was interesting.

    I think Fla is definitely the most insightful on it, to the point that he was amazed a few weeks ago at how good Barry Murphy's summary of the Leinster Glasgow game was.


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    #3325
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,609 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    at the right price anything is possible.

    would 50 years of FAI rent and fees on the property be worth 29 million accumulated?

    if so, take hand and all

    There's a good point made further down in that thread, would the FAI in it's current financial state be able to pay a fair rent for the stadium to cover costs etc for the IRFU per game? They're already head over heels in debt, there's a good chance they'll continue to lose money hand over fist for the next couple of years even after the buyout, there's no guarantee that the FAI would stump up the cash when prompted for matches.


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    #3326
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,297 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    at the right price anything is possible.

    would 50 years of FAI rent and fees on the property be worth 29 million accumulated?

    if so, take hand and all

    It would also mean all income from naming rights etc and other events concerts etc would be the Irfu’s for the 50 years. Really it will be a simple maths of is it worth it at the price they can get it.


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    #3327
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,137 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    There's a good point made further down in that thread, would the FAI in it's current financial state be able to pay a fair rent for the stadium to cover costs etc for the IRFU per game? They're already head over heels in debt, there's a good chance they'll continue to lose money hand over fist for the next couple of years even after the buyout, there's no guarantee that the FAI would stump up the cash when prompted for matches.

    yeah thats all part of the negotiations im sure... what would stop FAI from playing at Dalymount etc...

    and theres a fair point made as well, that if FAI went into liquidation, would that share in the aviva be a fraction of the cost?
    what happens to stadCo and other cooperative companies the FAi has investments with?


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    #3328
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    It all depends on current IRFU finances

    I know the 2018 bumper year brought in a huge profit for them but still that was only a couple of million

    If they take over the stadium they have to pay for it. So that could mean less money going to grass roots or to the provinces. Of course the CVC deal with 6 nations and with the pro14 could in fact cover the cost of the stadium and then it would make sense

    The FAI are a basket case, I would not expect them to host many events in it. But it is been used as one of the stadium for the European cups isnt it? the Euros or whatever it is called so they must be getting a big payday for that?

    I would not let the government take control of 50% of it. They are another FAI waiting to happen


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    #3329
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    yeah thats all part of the negotiations im sure... what would stop FAI from playing at Dalymount etc...

    I'm guessing you haven't been to Dalymount of late...

    Really, the Aviva is the only game in town for the FAI, maybe Thomond for smaller games.


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    #3330
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,137 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Former Former wrote: »
    I'm guessing you haven't been to Dalymount of late...

    Really, the Aviva is the only game in town for the FAI, maybe Thomond for smaller games.

    No i havent, just took it from here

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_venues_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

    I cant see thomond as a valid option, wont draw the crowds from dublin for international games


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    #3331
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Former Former wrote: »
    I'm guessing you haven't been to Dalymount of late...

    Really, the Aviva is the only game in town for the FAI, maybe Thomond for smaller games.


    Would they be able to drive attendance for a big game at Thomond? also would they not end up paying the IRFU anyway for using Thomond?


    It might be optional for some of the smaller internationals when they can only have half the aviva full but the bigger games they would eith pay IRFU for Aviva or pay GAA for Croker


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