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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

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    #1802
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Lumen wrote: »
    For an average height (180cm) man BMI calculator gives:

    Overweight: over 81kg
    Obese: over 97kg.

    So 90kg is about halfway to obese.

    Obvs most heavy men claim that BMI is bullsh!t and they're just big boned.

    Yes I'm 182cm so very overweight, had not hit obese officially but as you point out not far off it.
    According to medical research my waist size at the time of 95cm put me at a much higher risk of diabetes.
    creedp wrote: »
    Did Ross explain how penalty points are issued to those without a driving licence? But of course given Ross's hatred of everything car related I'm sure he would see this as yet another way of getting car drivers off the road

    No, the people with no licece will get the same penalty as someone who drives a car without ever holding a licence.
    A large number of people on escooters hold a drivers licence.


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    #1803
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lumen wrote: »
    For an average height (180cm) man BMI calculator gives:

    Overweight: over 81kg
    Obese: over 97kg.

    So 90kg is about halfway to obese.

    Obvs most heavy men claim that BMI is bullsh!t and they're just big boned.

    I'm well f1cked so lol may get back on the bike, which brings me back to another point, cycle lanes, I live in the country and got narrow roads and high speed traffic, Irish drivers are mental on small country roads.

    Anyway we got tonnes of land we could use for cycle lanes, farmers aside, do what they do in Germany, compulsory purchase orders.

    If I could put my 5.5 yr and almost 4 year old boys on the bike safely I would cycle the 30 kms total school trips when I'm off shift. But I can't and it's showing on my belly lol.

    This brings me to another point, a bike capable of carrying kids is still limited to 250 watts.............


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    #1804
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,634 ✭✭✭creedp


    tuxy wrote: »
    Yes I'm 182cm so very overweight, had not hit obese officially but as you point out not far off it.
    According to medical research my waist size at the time of 95cm put me at a much higher risk of diabetes.



    No, the people with no licece will get the same penalty as someone who drives a car without ever holding a licence.
    A large number of people on escooters hold a drivers licence.


    What about those who don't have licences? Is it legally appropriate that they be subject to a lower sanction?


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    #1805
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    creedp wrote: »
    What about those who don't have licences? Is it legally appropriate that they be subject to a lower sanction?

    If that's what has been happening to people who use a car or motorbike without a licence I can't see it changing. It's not fair but it happens all the time because when someone is caught with no licence they are usually convicted of multiple offences including ones with mandatory penalty points.
    The points would be added to a licence if the offender every obtains one.


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    #1806
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    tuxy wrote: »
    Are you are talking about tax categories which I don't think is needed for conviction?
    It doesn't say anything about categories, which goes back to my question about modifying normal cars just so they are not in a category. Can I piss down the M50 in a formula one car and expect no points as it cannot be insured or taxed?!

    I expect a significant % of escooter users have a drivers licence, just as cyclists do.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/56/enacted/en/html#sec56
    Compulsory Insurance of Mechanically Propelled Vehicles.
    56.—(1) A person (in this subsection referred to as the user) shall not use in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle unless either a vehicle insurer, a vehicle guarantor or an exempted person would be liable for injury caused by the negligent use of the vehicle by him at that time or there is in force at that time either—

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2002/act/12/schedule/1/enacted/en/html
    Using vehicle without insurance or guarantee 5 (points)
    tuxy wrote: »
    EU Directive is for the power to be progressively reduced as the bike nears 25 km/h

    No idea if they actually work like that but it sounds safer than an instant power cutoff.
    It is is gradual on my Bosch. I am faster commuting on a clapped out single speed hybrid with suspension than on my ebike and I am not that fit.

    I find the 25km/h limit can be dangerous at times, especially if you are new to the bikes, as it is effectively a speed limit as it is so difficult to go faster under your own steam. So in instances where you would usually give a burst of energy for a few seconds to overtake a person, go onto a roundabout etc it is like somebody has suddenly put the brakes on you.

    This is why when they talked of enforced limitations on cars they were going to allow you to break that limit momentarily. If you are talking about average commuter speeds being 24km/h you have to examine their speed pattern/graph. what are their peaks and for how long.

    I have also said numerous times that the limit leads to far more people completely derestricting the bikes. While I imagine many would have been happy with 30-32km/h.

    It could have momentary peak allowances for safety, like the cars, not allow continuous 30-35km/h but allow for a few seconds.

    It is interesting that in the cycling forum the vast majority are dead set against raising from 25 to even 30km/h, most saying 25km/h is fine (and they are seeing me posting about how it leads to derestriction). Yet I imagine if the government wanted a speed limit on bicycles of 25km/h, or even 35km/h there would be uproar!

    One guy was posting saying he has an ebike and is happy with the limit since he fell off and said the road rash he got would have been a lot more at higher speeds. I very much doubt he now slows down to stick below 25km/h when freewheeling downhill, where the road rash would be even worse due to sliding further downhill.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    Fat as **** at 90 Kg ? is that fat as **** ? lol
    somebody who is just above the limit to be deemed medically obese would not be likely to be describes as "fat as f**k". When people hear obese they think of lads in documentaries unable to leave the house. Its not at all like that, they would be super-morbidly obese or some other term.


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    #1807
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,016 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    @rubadub I see your point about the design of your Bosch effectively giving a top speed of 25kph, but this is, I think, easily overcome with better ebike design.

    I think it would be legal to apply a small amount of power over 25kph to overcome motor drag, so that you would effectively get exactly the same feel that you would from a motorless road bike. After all, the motor is not providing net assistance in this case.


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    #1808
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Lumen wrote: »
    I think it would be legal to apply a small amount of power over 25kph to overcome motor drag, so that you would effectively get exactly the same feel that you would from a motorless road bike.
    yes, that would be a good idea. Mine has 4 levels of assist, in the lowest it is still harder to cycle than my hybrid. Its not just the mechanical drag from the internal gearing in the motor, its the fact the bike is nearly twice the weight too.

    It is useful when cycling for exercise, as on the flat you can turn it down or off and get more exercise, while on a light road bike you'd be just coasting along.

    If escooters are allowed I would like them to be able to have a burst of high speed for a few seconds. I see some overtaking bikes on cycletracks and they are beside the bike for ages as they are only going a small bit faster. So they are 2 abreast for a while on these crappy lanes and I think they are more likely to come off if hitting potholes etc. Of course people will say they should just wait but then I envisage a massive line of guys on escooters on cycletracks, all darting all about the place avoiding tiny obstacles.

    Faster cyclists will then be using buslanes a lot more, which they are entitled to do. But there will be loads of complaints if this happens.


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    #1809
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    rubadub wrote: »

    It is is gradual on my Bosch. I am faster commuting on a clapped out single speed hybrid with suspension than on my ebike and I am not that fit.

    I find the 25km/h limit can be dangerous at times, especially if you are new to the bikes, as it is effectively a speed limit as it is so difficult to go faster under your own steam. So in instances where you would usually give a burst of energy for a few seconds to overtake a person, go onto a roundabout etc it is like somebody has suddenly put the brakes on you.

    This is why when they talked of enforced limitations on cars they were going to allow you to break that limit momentarily. If you are talking about average commuter speeds being 24km/h you have to examine their speed pattern/graph. what are their peaks and for how long.

    I have also said numerous times that the limit leads to far more people completely derestricting the bikes. While I imagine many would have been happy with 30-32km/h.

    It could have momentary peak allowances for safety, like the cars, not allow continuous 30-35km/h but allow for a few seconds.

    It is interesting that in the cycling forum the vast majority are dead set against raising from 25 to even 30km/h, most saying 25km/h is fine (and they are seeing me posting about how it leads to derestriction). Yet I imagine if the government wanted a speed limit on bicycles of 25km/h, or even 35km/h there would be uproar!

    One guy was posting saying he has an ebike and is happy with the limit since he fell off and said the road rash he got would have been a lot more at higher speeds. I very much doubt he now slows down to stick below 25km/h when freewheeling downhill, where the road rash would be even worse due to sliding further downhill.

    I agree with all the above 100% !

    As I said , those making the laws are being driven around in Diesels paid for by the taxpayer and wouldn't know what it's like to cycle such a bike.

    What bosch motor have you got ? mine is a 2013 only 50 Nm Torque, Could do with more.

    There is resistance at the pedals on the Bosch motors when the motor is off, I believe they only fixed it for the 2020 Models, perhaps 2019 model not sure.


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    #1810
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What bosch motor have you got ? mine is a 2013 only 50 Nm Torque, Could do with more.
    .
    its a 2015 performance model which I believe has 60Nm, good kick of it taking off, I broke chains when taking off so take it easier now, and also got special stronger chains.


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    #1811
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    rubadub wrote: »
    its a 2015 performance model which I believe has 60Nm, good kick of it taking off, I broke chains when taking off so take it easier now, and also got special stronger chains.

    Better than 50 Nm, what I miss the most about my mac 8T diy ebike was the ability to use throttle when my legs got really tired and of course I had tonnes of power to climb hills at even 48 Km/h no peddling, I miss that because there's nothing like having the power when you want it.

    And there was no pedal resistance when the motor was off, I used to pedal a lot. The Bosch has a notable resistance in the pedals which has seemingly been resolved for 2019/20 models. I think the current Bosch Gen are up to 75 Nm , probably for their mountain bikes.


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    #1812
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Electric Scooter Rider in Ireland Given Five Penalty Points and €300 Fine


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    #1813
    AhHaor
    Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭AhHaor


    I'm struggling to find the case. He doesn't have anything linked and there's no other results when it's googled. Kinda odd.


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    #1814
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,437 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    AhHaor wrote: »
    I'm struggling to find the case. He doesn't have anything linked and there's no other results when it's googled. Kinda odd.

    Yeah Ive been searching for the case too and I cant find anything. The problem with a lot of those eScooter blogs/facebooks, is that they are very click baity and extreme.

    Also, Id like to see which of the eScooters the guy was on. Ive seen some of them that are basically standing up motorbikes. Big large frame and big chunky wheels. Some even have a seat! They are taking p!ss in comparison to the other ones that are alot smaller and slower. Also, one of the other cases is about a guy on a unicycle thing.


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    #1815
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    rubadub wrote: »
    Electric Scooter Rider in Ireland Given Five Penalty Points and €300 Fine

    Was just checking to see if anyone had picked up on this.
    5 points for driving a mechanically propelled vehicle with no insurance.
    The judge didn't even have a choice as the points are mandatory.


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    #1816
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    There was two cases that morning. One of the got no points and 100 EUR fine. It's terrible. Hopefully the appeal will be better. Guy searching for better lawyer.


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    #1817
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Martynet wrote: »
    There was two cases that morning. One of the got no points and 100 EUR fine. It's terrible. Hopefully the appeal will be better. Guy searching for better lawyer.

    Was he also found guilty of no insurance and did he have a driving licence?

    It is bad, scooters need a legal category ASAP but people using them know the risks assuming they don't listen to the sketchy shops selling them.


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    #1818
    AhHaor
    Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭AhHaor


    It's a stupid clickbait article and it worked.


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    #1819
    Zenith74
    Registered Users Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Zenith74


    I sometimes get the Dart to Blackrock and need to get up to Sandyford, debating one fo these scooters for the craic. Does anybody know if they will realistically get to Sandyford and back with an adult on-board, given there’s a good few hills en-route?


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    #1820
    AhHaor
    Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭AhHaor


    That looks like a 14k round trip. You should be fine, but with the M365 when you go below 50% battery the power is reduced. If you had 2 hours with a 3 pin then you'll have no issues at all. I've done 22k with a few hills thrown in on single charge, got to destination with 8% left, which isn't really recommended


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    #1821
    Zenith74
    Registered Users Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Zenith74


    AhHaor wrote: »
    That looks like a 14k round trip. You should be fine, but with the M365 when you go below 50% battery the power is reduced. If you had 2 hours with a 3 pin then you'll have no issues at all. I've done 22k with a few hills thrown in on single charge, got to destination with 8% left, which isn't really recommended
    Oh good point, I’d be able to plug it in at the office for at least 4-5 hours. So actually just wondering if it will haul my ass up from Blackrock to Sandyford on a charge.


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    #1822
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,437 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    Zenith74 wrote: »
    Oh good point, I’d be able to plug it in at the office for at least 4-5 hours. So actually just wondering if it will haul my ass up from Blackrock to Sandyford on a charge.

    Should be no problem, once you have a charger each side (home and office). I've a lower powered scooter (kugoo S1) and I do an 8km round trip each day, and charge at the end of that trip only. It is more uphill BlackRock to Sandyford (I go Sandymount to Grand Canal Dock) but the m365 should be more than capable.


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    #1823
    LeeroyJ.
    Registered Users Posts: 708 ✭✭✭LeeroyJ.


    Zenith74 wrote: »
    I sometimes get the Dart to Blackrock and need to get up to Sandyford, debating one fo these scooters for the craic. Does anybody know if they will realistically get to Sandyford and back with an adult on-board, given there’s a good few hills en-route?

    m365 Pro or Ninebot Max would handle that with ease.


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    #1824
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think this is true can't fine any other source ?

    5 Penalty points and fine, definitely appeal that if true.

    I'm not sure about papers there in the smoke but here in the sticks of Carlow the Nationalist report all the useless crap before the courts , those before the courts for not paying fines, no NCT all that money making gravy train for the Government so it wouldn't go unmissed if it was down here.


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    #1825
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't think this is true can't fine any other source ?

    5 Penalty points and fine, definitely appeal that if true.

    The two cases were due to be heard on the 9th ...... but it seems strange that no reports have surfaced in the media ..... no interest?

    Even if they were put back I would expect some report in some form somewhere in newspapers or radio news.


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    #1826
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    AhHaor wrote: »
    It's a stupid clickbait article and it worked.

    In what way? The headline is about as minimalist and factual as you can get.
    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    The two cases were due to be heard on the 9th ...... but it seems strange that no reports have surfaced in the media ..... no interest?

    Even if they were put back I would expect some report in some form somewhere in newspapers or radio news.

    It's unusual, there are many old articles that explain why it is illegal to use them on a public place but only one small website that reported on the first case to go to trial.


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    #1827
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Martynet wrote: »
    There was two cases that morning. One of the got no points and 100 EUR fine. It's terrible. Hopefully the appeal will be better. Guy searching for better lawyer.

    Where did you hear this? are you the same Marty who posted it on the linked website?

    If not is there anyway you can check what is going on in the courts? I guess not everything would make the papers.


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    #1828
    AhHaor
    Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭AhHaor


    tuxy wrote: »
    In what way? The headline is about as minimalist and factual as you can get.

    Except for the fact that it doesn't appear to be accurate


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    #1829
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    AhHaor wrote: »
    Except for the fact that it doesn't appear to be accurate

    No one was given 5 points and a €300 fine for riding a scooter?


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    #1830
    AhHaor
    Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭AhHaor


    tuxy wrote: »
    No one was given 5 points and a €300 fine for riding a scooter?

    Given how they're a hot topic, and how the initial case was reported, I don't believe that not a single piece of reporting is on the web. Especially if the rider was given 5 penalty. I think people would be very interested to see what specific legislation has been broken etc.


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    #1831
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    It is very strange that the IT made a big splash about the two cases going to court
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/first-cases-of-riding-e-scooters-without-insurance-brought-to-court-1.4057797
    and reported the cases being put back to Dec 9th, yet have not followed up on it at all apparently.


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