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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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    #2732
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    leakyboots wrote: »
    When are Lowe/JGP/Tyler qualified?

    Tyler is the 3rd 10 in Munster at this stage, why would ireland bring him in when we have?

    We have
    Sexton
    Carbery
    Carty
    R Byrne
    Burns
    H Byrne
    Fitzgerald
    Healy
    Johnson
    Etc


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    #2733
    Granny15
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭Granny15


    leakyboots wrote: »
    Murray's (starting) place is under a bit of threat. I thought he was superb against Ospreys (who were gash) but wasn't that great against Racing. Good to have the competition at 9. Still not sure about Luke McGrath, boxkicks from the 22 are brutal which is pretty important at international (or any) level - it'd be Marmion or Cooney for me if it's not going to be Murray starting.

    At 2 right now I'd go Scannell and Kellegher in that order. Who knows what'll happen Cronin as someone said, he could be the incumbent.

    15 shirt is wide open, if Haley continues his form he might be in with a shout, plenty of competition there with Larmour, possibly Conway and others. I'm not too fussed about who it is along as there is a change.

    Still a good bit of rugby to be played, next few rounds of the Heineken and interpros could see guys put their hand up or s&&t the bed.

    I'm going to be really fascinated with the battle between Addison, Haley and Larmour for 15 shirt. I rate Haley higher than most but think there is not much between all 3.

    I think Larmour loses out possibly to Addison for the 6 nations because of his size under high balls however steady he might be and Addison's wide skillset.

    I think Haley is a real option for us there despite haters always highlighting statistically his short comings - i think he provides something on the counterattack which ireland have been missing for some time.


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    #2734
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    leakyboots wrote: »
    Meant to say, CJ isn't a bad shout for captain. Would think it'll one of him, James Ryan (think he'd be my pick, although maybe another couple of years might be better), Sexton and POM.

    I wouldn't personally have much issue with CJ being captain but I think the IRFU might. It would ultimately draw controversy that those involved would rather avoid.

    Who will be the next captain will be someone who is highly likely to start and almost certainly be in the 23.

    They are generally a player who does a decent amount of media anyway.

    They are often a provincial captain or former provincial captain.

    Players who fit that bracket would be Henderson, PoM, CJ, Sexton, Murray, Luke McGrath. These players fit all the main criteria albeit Luke obviously has the least definite proximity to the 23.

    Taking away the requirement for historical provincial captaincy, the next in line going by their general media presence and proximity to the 23 would be a much bigger pool.

    Conway, Aki, Ringrose, Stockdale, Larmour, Furlong, Ryan, Beirne, Kearney, Healy, Henshaw, Jordi, VDF, Farrell.

    It's a tough one to call but I'd imagine there are likely clear candidates within the group.

    I think it might go to Henderson myself. Best being captain seemed to have such a soothing affect on Awec, I think the IRFU will be happy enough to continue with another Nordie if it keeps the free folk happy.


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    #2735
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Wow. If Hendo was made captain ahead of Ryan, I can think of a couple of heads that would explode


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    #2736
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    Wow. If Hendo was made captain ahead of Ryan, I can think of a couple of heads that would explode

    Why?

    Henderson is a lion and has captained Ulster before

    Is more or less a nailed on starter


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    #2737
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    Wow. If Hendo was made captain ahead of Ryan, I can think of a couple of heads that would explode

    I should have added 'owning Leinster supporters' to the list of desirable criteria above.


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    #2738
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Why?

    Henderson is a lion and has captained Ulster before

    Is more or less a nailed on starter

    Because Henderson was a Lion, but he will never be lionised like Ryan.

    Poet/know it etc etc


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    #2739
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,004 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    The captain is picked by the squad, or at least it was when Schmidt was in charge and Best was selected. There was an interview with Best I think before the RWC where he talked about it.


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    #2740
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    My take on the current Irish Out-half landscape

    Regulars:
    Jonathan Sexton (Expecting this to be his final 6Nations as the starting 10)
    Joey Carbery
    Jack Carty
    Ross Byrne

    Verging on a call up to squad training:
    Billy Burns
    JJ Hanrahan

    Good enough for a call up but way down the pecking order:
    Tyler Bleyendaal
    Conor Fitzgerald

    Not playing enough for a call up:
    Bill Johnston
    Ciarán Frawley
    Angus Curtis

    The academy players are all talented but are nowhere near a call up:
    Luke Carty (Year 3)
    Harry Byrne (Year 2)
    Ben Healy (Year 2)
    Conor Dean (Year 2)
    Bruce Houston (Year 2)
    Jake Flannery (Year 1)

    Expatriate players:
    Johnny McPhillips (Age: 22. Moved from Ulster to Leicester during the summer)
    Paddy Jackson (Age: 27. Will never find employment with the IRFU ever again)
    Cathal Marsh (Age: 27. Playing in New York)
    Noel Reid (Age: 29. Unlikely to return to a province in Ireland at this stage)
    Ian Madigan (Age: 30. Unlikely to return to a province in Ireland at this stage)
    Ian Keatley (Age: 32. Unlikely to return to a province in Ireland at this stage)


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    #2741
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Sexton is on contract till the Lions tour, this will not be his last 6 nations unless some of the others kick him out of the jersey, which at the moment is looking unlikely

    I would have JJ above Carty and R Byrne at the moment.....hopefully he continues to play like he is

    R Byrne is playing well but it is clear the Irish management dont like him so no point keeping him in the mix....it baffles me personally but that seems to be the case.


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    #2742
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    New coaches though, so nobody can know for certain yet how they rate all the players.

    Assuming Carbery won't get back up to speed by February,
    I think for this 6 Nations it will be Sexton at 10 with Carty on the bench,
    and one of Byrne, Hanrahan, or Burns in the training squad.
    Can't see anyone else featuring outside of that group at the moment, but 3 months from now might be a different story of course.


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    #2743
    Granny15
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭Granny15


    Jump_In_Jack wrote: »
    My take on the current Irish Out-half landscape

    Regulars:
    Jonathan Sexton (Expecting this to be his final 6Nations as the starting 10)
    Joey Carbery
    Jack Carty
    Ross Byrne

    Verging on a call up to squad training:
    Billy Burns
    JJ Hanrahan

    Good enough for a call up but way down the pecking order:
    Tyler Bleyendaal
    Conor Fitzgerald

    Not playing enough for a call up:
    Bill Johnston
    Ciarán Frawley
    Angus Curtis

    The academy players are all talented but are nowhere near a call up:
    Luke Carty (Year 3)
    Harry Byrne (Year 2)
    Ben Healy (Year 2)
    Conor Dean (Year 2)
    Bruce Houston (Year 2)
    Jake Flannery (Year 1)

    Expatriate players:
    Johnny McPhillips (Age: 22. Moved from Ulster to Leicester during the summer)
    Paddy Jackson (Age: 27. Will never find employment with the IRFU ever again)
    Noel Reid (Age: 29. Unlikely to return to a province in Ireland at this stage)
    Ian Madigan (Age: 30. Unlikely to return to a province in Ireland at this stage)
    Ian Keatley (Age: 32. Unlikely to return to a province in Ireland at this stage)

    I think Ben Healy and Conor Dean are the most talented of the academy players you have listed (that I know - haven't seen Carty presume he's a brother of Jack or Bruce Heuston).

    Would also like to see Hawkshaw at Leinster Acdemy given a few runs out at fly half on the "A's" over the next season or two.

    I think we are threadbare and need to bring younger players through in the position with 2 of the 4 regulars category not being up to international standard IMO in Byrne and Carty.


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    #2744
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I think Lowry will make the switch back to 10 in the next couple of seasons, once he has more experience.


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    #2745
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,579 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    Wow. If Hendo was made captain ahead of Ryan, I can think of a couple of heads that would explode

    mine would , Ryan is a much more consistent performer to Henderson , thought he was very anonymous in last few WC matches .


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    #2746
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Jump_In_Jack wrote: »
    Verging on a call up to squad training:
    JJ Hanrahan
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I would have JJ above Carty and R Byrne at the moment.....hopefully he continues to play like he is

    Are we getting ahead of ourselves a bit here lads? I mean, he played well but it was only one game.


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    #2747
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Former Former wrote: »
    Are we getting ahead of ourselves a bit here lads? I mean, he played well but it was only one game.


    From what I have seen he has played well all season


    I am not sure why people have such a problem with JJ, any player has a half decent game and they are nailed on to start in the 6 nations. JJ has a decent run at 10 and is playing well and nobody is positive about him.....


    I personally think he is hugely underrated. even last season he was MoM in a HC and then next week he got dumped out of the team.



    I hope he flourishes under the new management and pushs his way into the Ireland squad and team


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    #2748
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,004 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    He's never done it over a consistent period of time. The move to England seems to have been a bit of a disaster, he's been second fiddle to someone else for nearly his whole time at Munster. Maybe this season is it for him and he'll make a breakthrough but I don't think he's deserved to be involved yet and the arc of his career hasn't really suggested he's been hard done by either.


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    #2749
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    From what I have seen he has played well all season

    I am not sure why people have such a problem with JJ, any player has a half decent game and they are nailed on to start in the 6 nations. JJ has a decent run at 10 and is playing well and nobody is positive about him.....

    I personally think he is hugely underrated. even last season he was MoM in a HC and then next week he got dumped out of the team.

    I hope he flourishes under the new management and pushs his way into the Ireland squad and team

    I have absolutely no problem with JJ.

    But his entire career is defined by occasional sparks punctuating prolonged periods of mediocrity. The guy is 27, he's been a pro for a long time and has never looked like an international.

    One game isn't a decent run. If he can show consistent performances of the required quality, then absolutely he'll get his shot at Ireland.


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    #2750
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    Wow. If Hendo was made captain ahead of Ryan, I can think of a couple of heads that would explode

    Yours probably


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    #2751
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    Aki signs central contract until 2023.


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    #2752
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I personally think he is hugely underrated. even last season he was MoM in a HC and then next week he got dumped out of the team.

    Carbery came back in after injury. And following the Castres game, he enjoyed his best spell of the season. I've mentioned this before:
    ...for the next spell of games he was brilliant; his next 4 starts were against Leinster, Connacht, Gloucester and Exeter. We won all 4 and he got MOTM in 2. He went on a run of about 5 games without missing a penalty. Gloucester in particular, he was superb.

    Do you think JJ should have been starting these games ahead of Carbery?


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    #2753
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Former Former wrote: »
    I have absolutely no problem with JJ.

    But his entire career is defined by occasional sparks punctuating prolonged periods of mediocrity. The guy is 27, he's been a pro for a long time and has never looked like an international.

    One game isn't a decent run. If he can show consistent performances of the required quality, then absolutely he'll get his shot at Ireland.


    Carty is 27.......I won't say anything else after that :P


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    #2754
    EachSmallChime
    Registered Users Posts: 192 ✭✭EachSmallChime


    Fair point about them both being 27. Difference is that Jack only seems to have come good in the last 2 years. I would say that Jack has overachieved to go to the RWC and could go higher. But no one ever expected any of that.

    JJ showed incredible potential at such young age and was tipped to be the next big thing. He's had a good professional career but by never playing well consistently over a run of games, has underachieved massively.

    Funnily enough, Jack isn't in good form at the minute, so if JJ got a good run over winter, he should definitely get the call up.


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    #2755
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Carty is 27.......I won't say anything else after that :P

    You could have said...

    - Carty has been first choice at his province for a few years now
    - Has shown good consistency of performance
    - His performances were rewarded by call-up to the national squad.

    None of which apply to JJ - but he's exactly what JJ should be aiming for.


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    #2756
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Who knows what the pecking order will be! After Sexton it's a mixed bag. Still don't get why RB is so underrated. His win % is probably higher than the others.
    Carberry has not shown much, imo. Carty came out of nowhere and was fantastic last year. Burns is really playing well and RB is still playing well. Sexton will be there until someone usurps him. Fitzgerald looks promising, JJ played well last week, but historically his form is up and down and he can't win the 10 shirt for Munster.
    Carty is struggling right now. So, it is up in the air. My guess would be Burns gets capped during the 6nations and Carty is the back up.


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    #2757
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,961 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    Stander is a good player. So is Conan. They offer different attributes. Stander can trick the ball all day. Conan is better in a an open type of match!
    Neither is close to Billy V, or Coetzee, even Read. I think Conan has more upside. Deegan is a different beast. He's quicker and imo, more of a skilled player. Doris is a strong carrying 8. I think Doris would be more of a Schmidt type of player.
    I believe Doris could also be a good 6! I think he'd do better than Deegan at 6. I may be wrong.
    Anyway, I don't expect massive change. It will be incremental and hopefully well planned. I would expect a new 15, a new 2 and a possible change at 9. Otherwise it should be the status quo, except Marty Moore, who I think will see game time this 6nations.

    I think Deegan is coming along nicely. I thought he looked good last year and better this year. His workrate seems higher this year and he appears to be getting more involved in the grunt work and the tight stuff. Obviously there is still a lot more to work on but he appears to be heading in the right direction.

    One thing I noticed in last week's match was that a couple of times he struggled controlling the ball at the base of the scrum. I know this is actually a difficult skill and it is something he needs to work on to be an international no. 8. I hope if he doesn't make the Irish squad, Farrell sits him down and gives him a bunch of work-ons so that he can keep developing.

    As for the Doris v Deegan debate; I feel I haven't seen enough of Doris to make a call yet but at the moment I think Deegan is ahead.


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    #2758
    Richie_Rich89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    I'd like to see a backrow of 6. C.J. Stander, 7. Josh van der Flier, 8. Max Deegan; 20. Peter O'Mahony in the 6N. I think they need to make changes from the POM, JvdF, Stander backrow that just didn't work most of the time.


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    #2759
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    I'd have no issues with CJ captaining the team. He's pretty unbreakable, so will generally always be available and he's pretty much going to be in the back-row for the foreseeable future at 6 or 8.

    Other's may have issues with him playing on an Irish team, but he's here now and he's done as much, if not more, as any other player to deserve it.


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    #2760
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,704 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Will Connors needs to be looked at by Andy Farrel. The guy is starting to match VdF for work rate around the pitch. He tackles everything that moves and carries a lot of slow ball whilst still making metres. He's also dominant in the tackle which is something we've missed since Leavy got injured. On the subject of openside flankers, VDF is in brilliant form as well. He was good at the World Cup and has moved up a level again since returning.

    Might need to reintegrate Toner into the side too. He was imperious in the lineout.


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    #2761
    tryagain
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭tryagain


    A lot of players were good at world cup but we need more how can our 4 sides in Europe show so much fight pull on green at WC and do nothing cycle after cycle. Is it to much pressure for our players because we now expect to win we are not underdogs anymore is it a mental thing .


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