Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Dog Botherer

i don’t think describing Farrell as a determined hard nosed character would be inaccurate either.

aloooof

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Btw what’s up with Sexton? Will he be fit for exit week? There is little to no updates about him.

Announced this morning:

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1333331080645140481

Bazzo

That should paper over the cracks nicely.

molloyjh

Bazzo wrote: »

That should paper over the cracks nicely.

Would it though? If we're suddenly noticeably better with Sexton at 10 would that not just highlight a major crack, i.e. the absence of a good enough back-up/understudy? And if we're not noticeably better would that not lead to more questions being asked?

Burkie1203

Just watched the game back on fast forward mostly

Bealham I hope was moved to LH purely to not start Healy. We missed a chance to give EOS a start IMO.

EOS, Kelleher, Baird, Doris (@8), Daly
They could hardly have been any worse.

We are back to Stander trucking it up aimlessly. Near the end he broke off a 5m scrum and crabbed sideways until their centres dumped him on his arse. Clueless. Totally dumb stuff.

Then the last play, first POM just shovels the ball on to Roux who just shovels it onto Stander who tries to go through someone and ends up in touch. POM or Roux needed to just take contact and recycle. Its clueless stuff. The inability to see what's in front of them and make decisions is a real issue and it summed up the entire Autumn series performances.

Former Former Former

molloyjh wrote: »

Would it though? If we're suddenly noticeably better with Sexton at 10 would that not just highlight a major crack, i.e. the absence of a good enough back-up/understudy? And if we're not noticeably better would that not lead to more questions being asked?

Yeah, pretty much.

I think we've seen enough bad performances now that one good performance won't be nearly enough for people to say "oh, that's grand now, all sorted"

Out-half is a major problem;
- Ross Byrne is not good enough. He's just never going to be more than cover.
- Burns looks decent but just not top-level.
- Carbery was still very much unproven but I don't think he's ever going to play again.
- Carty isn't good enough either

So IMO the successor to Sexton hasn't even been capped yet.

UAEguy2020

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Just watched the game back on fast forward mostly

Bealham I hope was moved to LH purely to not start Healy. We missed a chance to give EOS a start IMO.

EOS, Kelleher, Baird, Doris (@8), Daly
They could hardly have been any worse.

We are back to Stander trucking it up aimlessly. Near the end he broke off a 5m scrum and crabbed sideways until their centres dumped him on his arse. Clueless. Totally dumb stuff.

Then the last play, first POM just shovels the ball on to Roux who just shovels it onto Stander who tries to go through someone and ends up in touch. POM or Roux needed to just take contact and recycle. Its clueless stuff. The inability to see what's in front of them and make decisions is a real issue and it summed up the entire Autumn series performances.

Just compare to what Doris did off the back of the scrum vs Wales... Stander’s carry summed up the performance.

Bazzo

molloyjh wrote: »

Would it though? If we're suddenly noticeably better with Sexton at 10 would that not just highlight a major crack, i.e. the absence of a good enough back-up/understudy? And if we're not noticeably better would that not lead to more questions being asked?

It was mostly just a joke but I think we all already know we don't have a good enough replacement for Sexton at the moment.

UAEguy2020

Former Former Former wrote: »

Yeah, pretty much.

I think we've seen enough bad performances now that one good performance won't be nearly enough for people to say "oh, that's grand now, all sorted"

Out-half is a major problem;
- Ross Byrne is not good enough. He's just never going to be more than cover.
- Burns looks decent but just not top-level.
- Carbery was still very much unproven but I don't think he's ever going to play again.
- Carty isn't good enough either

So IMO the successor to Sexton hasn't even been capped yet.

I disagree on Carbery, I still think if we can stop totally flogging him that he can still be a good option for us. As for successor I still think it’s probably going to be Harry Byrne.

There is no performance against Scotland that will make us feel that everything is okay but a good win combined with decent to uninspiring performances vs Wales,England,France etc would at least have us going into the six nations with abit of positivity and confidence, if it’s a arm wrestle or even a defeat then Farrell will have real pressure on his back.

UAEguy2020

Bazzo wrote: »

It was mostly just a joke but I think we all already know we don't have a good enough replacement for Sexton at the moment.

I guess that’s what happens when you treat a player like he’s the messiah.

aloooof

Former Former Former wrote: »

Yeah, pretty much.

I think we've seen enough bad performances now that one good performance won't be nearly enough for people to say "oh, that's grand now, all sorted"

Out-half is a major problem;
- Ross Byrne is not good enough. He's just never going to be more than cover.
- Burns looks decent but just not top-level.
- Carbery was still very much unproven but I don't think he's ever going to play again.
- Carty isn't good enough either

So IMO the successor to Sexton hasn't even been capped yet.

It does look like a bit of a dearth in quality when you consider the previous succession of Humphries -> ROG -> Sexton -> ??

I'm hopeful Carbery can come back from injury, but it's pretty unprecedented to hear of a player out for an indefinite period.

bilston

Billy Burns need more gametime. He has done pretty well so far and in my mind anyway has overtaken Ross Byrne in the pecking order.

It will be interesting to see how it unfolds over the next 12 months. For all the talk of Harry Byrne, I'd say Ben Healy might come into the squad next, simply because he is likely to be playing European rugby. Harry Byrne may need an injury to get that European experience this season.

UAEguy2020

aloooof wrote: »

It does look like a bit of a dearth in quality when you consider the previous succession of Humphries -> ROG -> Sexton -> ??

“Humphrey’s” 😂
Also I think we are again missing the point, any 10 we had out there should look at least competent.

I do think Carbery is pretty good if he can get back to fitness and we have 2 good young 10s already at the provinces.

One thing I will say is we cannot play Ross Byrne when he is the only play maker in the back line, I guarantee if you put Ringrose in their or Carbery at 15 for example you’d see a much better performance form him.

Paul Smeenus

molloyjh wrote: »

Would it though? If we're suddenly noticeably better with Sexton at 10 would that not just highlight a major crack, i.e. the absence of a good enough back-up/understudy? And if we're not noticeably better would that not lead to more questions being asked?

Cracks will remain resolutely visible when Scotland beat us.

Former Former Former

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

I disagree on Carbery, I still think if we can stop totally flogging him that he can still be a good option for us. As for successor I still think it’s probably going to be Harry Byrne.

Whatever is going on with Carbery, 'flogging' is not a term I would apply to it.

UAEguy2020

Former Former Former wrote: »

Whatever is going on with Carbery, 'flogging' is not a term I would apply to it.

Picking him on the bench for a WC QF when he was clearly still injured would fit the term perfectly.

theVersatile

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Then the last play, first POM just shovels the ball on to Roux who just shovels it onto Stander who tries to go through someone and ends up in touch. POM or Roux needed to just take contact and recycle. Its clueless stuff. The inability to see what's in front of them and make decisions is a real issue and it summed up the entire Autumn series performances.

*gives out about players trucking the ball up aimlessly*

*gives out about playing wide into space instead of trucking the ball up aimlessly*

???

ionadnapokot

Bazzo wrote: »

That should paper over the cracks nicely.

Really dont think so.
The cracks were there when he played v France & England in 6N.
& he didnt play well (again) in either of those games.

I understand now why there hasn't been any contract rumors. (IRFU aren't negotiating any contracts at the moment)
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/irish-professional-rugby-players-face-an-anxious-christmas-1.4422772

I presume the IRFU might have to offer him a 1 year deal because of Carbery situation.
Who knows?

Personally think irfu shouldn't give him a contract & Farrell would be better served limiting his role to the bench for 6N.

Big name contracts up in June 2021

Keith Earls
Jonathan Sexton
Cian Healy
Jack McGrath,
Iain Henderson
CJ Stander
Tadhg Furlong
Peter O’Mahony

The last four would be worth renewing.
Considering the mess they are making of loose head they will prob have to give Healy another year.

El_Duderino 09

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Scotland next week is now extra important, if we see a continuation of the second half next week I’d be very concerned for the 6N.

It’s very important in one way, but this isn’t an important competition. It’s a makey-uppy fillet tourmaline. These are games to try new things, to figure out what works and what doesn’t. And plenty of things have not worked.

If Farrell can figure out how to change the plan, he has loads of material to work with.

Next week feels important because the next match always feels important. But the next meaningful match is the six nations

Mimon

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Really dont think so.
The cracks were there when he played v France & England in 6N.
& he didnt play well (again) in either of those games.

I understand now why there hasn't been any contract rumors. (IRFU aren't negotiating any contracts at the moment)


I presume the IRFU might have to offer him a 1 year deal because of Carbery situation.
Who knows?

Personally think irfu shouldn't give him a contract & Farrell would be better served limiting his role to the bench for 6N.

Big name contracts up in June 2021

Keith Earls
Jonathan Sexton
Cian Healy
Jack McGrath,
Iain Henderson
CJ Stander
Tadhg Furlong
Peter O’Mahony

The last four would be worth renewing.
Considering the mess they are making of loose head they will prob have to give Healy another year.

O'Mahony, sorry but no. We really need to move away form centrally contracting guys in their 30's. Should be aiming to have them on these contracts to max 31/32/. It's a young mans game apart from maybe at prop and lock.

UAEguy2020

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But very important in one way, but this isn’t an important competition. It’s a makey-uppy fillet tourmaline. These are games to try new things, to figure out what works and what doesn’t. And plenty of things have not worked.

If Farrell can figure out how to change the plan, he has loads of material to work with.

Next week feels important because the next match always feels important. But the next meaningful match is the six nations

I couldn’t care less about this competition (struggle to even call it that) but what’s important is the level of performances. What we need to see is a decent baseline heading into the 6N and if we can get out of this game with a good win and abit of positivity (with it also pretty clear that work is needed in certain aspects of play) then that will be good for us.

We right now just need abit of momentum, if we get it against Scotland we’ll be flying, during this competition we have done a lot of chopping and changing so it’s not something really to hang out hat on interms on analyzing where we are at, id have far more weight hanging on how we performed vs France in the 6N than this autumn cup.

phog

We're in trouble at outhalf, grand if Sexton can play but behind him we're in bother. Burns is a better option than Byrne but both are mile off Sexton's quality.
This was a game where the result was never in doubt but we looked rudderless in the second half more particularly in the last quarter. From the time of Stockdale's pass being deemed to be forward we seemed to go into treading water mode.

Former Former Former

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Picking him on the bench for a WC QF when he was clearly still injured would fit the term perfectly.

Meh, that's an urban myth.

El_Duderino 09

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

I couldn’t care less about this competition (struggle to even call it that) but what’s important is the level of performances. What we need to see is a decent baseline heading into the 6N and if we can get out of this game with a good win and abit of positivity (with it also pretty clear that work is needed in certain aspects of play) then that will be good for us.

We right now just need abit of momentum, if we get it against Scotland we’ll be flying, during this competition we have done a lot of chopping and changing so it’s not something really to hang out hat on interms on analyzing where we are at, id have far more weight hanging on how we performed vs France in the 6N than this autumn cup.

Completely agree. I place much less emphasis on this Scotland game than the next 6N game in February or March.

I cut Farrell lots of slack in this window but the 6N is serious. I think it is pretty clear that Ireland isn’t very good at the moment but France and England are top tier at the moment and Scotland are much improved.

These things can’t be solved in a few months so I don’t expect Ireland to win the 2021 6N. But I do want to see a much better performance and game management and more competitive overall.

The Lost Sheep

Mimon wrote: »

O'Mahony, sorry but no. We really need to move away form centrally contracting guys in their 30's. Should be aiming to have them on these contracts to max 31/32/. It's a young mans game apart from maybe at prop and lock.

You cant ever have a rule like that. Every player is completely different. And at 31/32 you have players who can be involved even at international level for 2/3 more years.

phog wrote: »

We're in trouble at outhalf, grand if Sexton can play but behind him we're in bother. Burns is a better option than Byrne but both are mile off Sexton's quality.
This was a game where the result was never in doubt but we looked rudderless in the second half more particularly in the last quarter. From the time of Stockdale's pass being deemed to be forward we seemed to go into treading water mode.

Of course they are well of Sexton but very hard to expect that we should have two players of the quality Sexton has shown at the same time.

Solutionking

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

I disagree on Carbery, I still think if we can stop totally flogging him that he can still be a good option for us. As for successor I still think it’s probably going to be Harry Byrne.

There is no performance against Scotland that will make us feel that everything is okay but a good win combined with decent to uninspiring performances vs Wales,England,France etc would at least have us going into the six nations with abit of positivity and confidence, if it’s a arm wrestle or even a defeat then Farrell will have real pressure on his back.

When has Carbery been flogged? Since 2016 he has played 54 times for Leinster and Munster. Only 17 times for Munster. SInce 2016 for Ireland he has played 22 times.

Hardly flogging the chap.

Yes he got injured in the Italy warm up game but he has always had injuries since he first started to play.

UAEguy2020

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Completely agree. I place much less emphasis on this Scotland game than the next 6N game in February or March.

I cut Farrell lots of slack in this window but the 6N is serious. I think it is pretty clear that Ireland isn’t very good at the moment but France and England are top tier at the moment and Scotland are much improved.

These things can’t be solved in a few months so I don’t expect Ireland to win the 2021 6N. But I do want to see a much better performance and game management and more competitive overall.

Especially with the rotations that have been made, all that's happened is the questions we have of this team remain unanswered.



We arent but it must be remembered that France,England and Scotland are far more settled than Ireland at the moment and it really shows when things go wrong for Ireland they panic and make more mistakes which leads to more points being leaked.



The big game we need to be up for is France at home in the 6N, as we saw in the 6N even when we havent been at our best we were still not a million miles away despite it being in Paris, that game is the most important because England at home is the final game and by then we may have improved enough. I think we have a good bit to go in order to get where we want to be as a team but I dont think we are a million miles off being able to compete with France or England and we saw that this year it was little things here or there that dont seem like much but made a big difference in the end.

UAEguy2020

Solutionking wrote: »

When has Carbery been flogged? Since 2016 he has played 54 times for Leinster and Munster. Only 17 times for Munster. SInce 2016 for Ireland he has played 22 times.

Hardly flogging the chap.

Yes he got injured in the Italy warm up game but he has always had injuries since he first started to play.

I guess bringing him to a world cup and playing him when he clearly wasnt fit... especially when he has had numerous injuries like the one he had.

Solutionking

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

I guess bringing him to a world cup and playing him when he clearly wasnt fit... especially when he has had numerous injuries like the one he had.

If he wasn't fit he wouldn't have played. This has been discussed a million times but the "Ireland played him when injured" doesn't hold water when they have never done it before with any player. The doctors wouldn't allow it. Simple.

Plus that is not flogging him, flogging him would be playing him week in week out without any sort of break. That has NEVER happened to Carbery or any Irish player recently, unless they are playing in France/England.

Clegg

This is the right decision. Although I do wonder who the IRFU have failed to reach agreement with.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1333387570408022017?s=09