General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

When are the parties bringing out their manifestos?? The election is in just over a month!

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

voters are rightly concerned Lab will bankrupt the UK like they did in the 70s.

people would be very foolish to forget the mess they made of it, and now that Corbyn & McDonnell are in charge, then the UK can expect more of that should they be elected.
Brexit happening or not is very important obviously. but of equal import is just how economically illiterate Lab are.
hopefully as this campaign progresses, Lab will be challenged and costed on their proposals, but what cannot be costed right now is the flight of talent, capital and fall in confidence that will follow a Lab victory.

And yet the Tories have just signed up to the economic plans put forward by Labour. The only difference is the exact amount but the principle is the same.

robinph wrote: »

How many Labour MP's are there from the '70's still sitting in the HoC?

The beast!!! For one anyway. I wonder will he make it, big tory target seat. But i think he will hold on.

Otherwise, the 70s!!! The seeds of the brexit vote were really sown a decade later and beyond when the north of england, among other areas, were ravaged and then forgotten. By both tory and Labour govs it should be said.

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

Here is an interesting article posted in The Independent, not a paper know for its' pro-Tory stance,

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/winter-of-discontent-jeremy-corbyn-trade-unions-margaret-thatcher-a8741256.html

It is now 40 years since the beginning of the winter of discontent, and a little over 20 years since the Conservatives finally squeezed the last few drops of propaganda value from it.

In case you’re unfamiliar with those events, they basically ended the last Labour government before Blair’s and acted as a sort of funeral pyre for the old “post-war consensus” that set the preservation of full employment, the welfare state and a mixed (public/private) economy as the prime domestic policy objectives of every government of either party.

What brought the government of James Callaghan so low – and a few months later helped Margaret Thatcher to begin what turned out to be 18 years of uninterrupted Tory rule – was a series of strikes across industries and public services in every corner of the nation.

That's not an 'article' - which implies it is written by a journalist and at least pretends to conform to come kind of unbiased standard.

That is an opinion piece.

Which means it one (anti-socialists) opinion and the best they can so is harp back to the 1970s.

Latest Survation poll has the gap down to 6% - it's an outlier for now but looks like the trend is moving in a similar direction to 2017.

Then you have speeches like this as well, we will need to see how voters in the Tories react tho this,

https://twitter.com/OxfordUnion/status/1194304012734087175?s=20

That is Aaron Banks stating that Farage has been able to force the Tories to morph into the Brexit Party.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Perhaps Thatcher did.
And then she created a mess all of her own.
One that is still being felt in the North of England.

And I am very well aware of what history does and does not do thanks.
What it does not do is act the same when conditions are different so stop trying to act like some soothsayer.

I have no idea why opinion polls do anything. I stopped paying attention to them when they predicted Kinnock would beat Thatcher. Back when I lived in Thatcher's UK, In fact I was living in the North of England then. It was a wasteland of unemployment. People were that poor they couldn't follow Tebbit's advice to get on their bikes because no one could afford a bike.

But I imagine Tory Press Headlines screaming demonstrable lies may have some impact - we already have seen how gullible some UK voters are. They are voting to drive their own economy off a cliff because some posh boys and a wide boy on the make talked them into it.

On polling, the Yougov tracker over the last few years is interesting.



Notice the stark difference in direction of travel for Corbyn, between the periods of an election campaign when people actually see him speak or hear his policies, and the periods between elections when all they get is the constant stream of propoganda from the right wing papers that dominate the media over there.

Johnson hasn't collapsed so far in the way May did though. Which I find quite inexplicable. Who in their right mind looks at anything Boris Johnson does or says and thinks he's the man that should lead the country. It really boggles the mind.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

You'd have to wonder what Jo Swinson's thought process is here, it really looks like Tory-enablement.

Anyone with any knowledge of Swinson will know that Marr got it right the last time she was on. You are the 'pro-remain wing of the Conservative Party'

See the end of this video

https://twitter.com/chessmartinez/status/1193193829068951554

^^^^

You only state that one side will destroy the economy and not the other side, why?

Last one from me tonight - Paul Mason nails in it in this clip with his response to Elliot

https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/1194156424668028928

https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1194395872882245632?s=19

Independent Tories and former Tories under the Lib Dem banner could swing this election

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, but you seem to be completely certain that Labour policies will lead to economic mismanagement but don't appear to see that Tory mismanagement, including but not limited to Brexit, is having and could could have even worse, implications.

UK are just about staving off a recession, despite the huge amount of work undertaken by the central bank. Despite the relative collapse in Stg which should have lead to a massive increase in exports.

After 10 years of austerity, austerity the Tories told us was required in order to ensure the economy could flourish, we have a stagnent economy.

So you fears are misplaced. Whether Labour policies will result in economic damage is of course open to discussion and debate, but we already know the effect of what the Tories have done and even the most ardent Brexiteer is not claiming that a No Deal or Johnson deal will result in any economic benefits.

It is a terrible choice I would argue, but staying with the current crowd makes no logical sense.

The damage done by Tory Austerity Policies is writ large across the UK. Not just to the still stagnant economy but to the lives of the people. The only 'growth industry' in parts of the country are food banks. The health service is on the point of collapse. Homelessness is skyrocketing. Sterling is plummeting. Crime is on the increase.
The Tory solution? We will borrow money to kind of reverse the cuts we made (but not fully) which is not an admission that the cuts were bad or that our polices of cuttings didn't work.
In the meanwhile we will ensure we crash out of the large trading bloc on our doorstep and try and make deals with places far far away. Some of the family silver may have to be used to grease the deals coff coff NHS coff coff.
LET'S BREXIT - p.s. Labour will crash the economy m'kay.

In summary: the Tory's will bring a mop to a flood while trying to negotiate a deal for sandbags with Australia.

But what is this Labour policy that is worse than a Hard Brexit?

It's borrow money to invest in the UK. One could even call it a policy of 3 Rs. Relief. Recovery. Reform.
What socialist madness is this cries Torydom. It will never work! History shows us such policies will blah blah 1970s blah blah.

But the real student of history will recognise the political philosophy behind the 3 Rs.
And those with sense will say it's about time someone looked at how that 'commie' (:P) Roosevelt kick started the US after it became obvious that austerity was simply prolonging the Great Depression.

If both parties are apparently going to destroy the economy then why stick with the party that will offer more of the same and a sure fire plunge off a cliff? - I reckon give the crowd who are at least willing to try and fix the problems not deny they exist a chance.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

^^^^

You only state that one side will destroy the economy and not the other side, why?

I think the difference between the two is that Johnson will destroy the economy by dragging the UK out of the EU, while Corbyn will destroy the economy without needing that external help.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But why would Corbyn's policies destroy the economy?

They wouldn't, sure even the Tories have sided with Labour over the need to invest in the country. This is after 10 years of austerity which they now accept is not working.

But it is Labour we need to be frightened of?

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But why would Corbyn's policies destroy the economy?

Because Marxist Stalinist 1970s tax increases did we mention the 1970s and Stalin yada yada.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Canterbury was one of stand-out results in 2017, with Labour overturning a 10K majority and 103 successive years of the constituency returning a Blue.

But the Labour win was less than 200 votes which would put it in the top 5 Tory targets.
So, conscious of this the Lib Dem candidate pulled out today, specifically saying it was to avoid handing it back to the Tories. The local parliamentary party seems to be in general agreement with him.

And yet Lib Dem HQ seem to be determined to stand a candidate regardless. Without local canvassers and being a parachuted outsider they'll probably only get 1500 votes or so, but could be the difference that stops a huge Labour hold.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/12/lib-dem-candidate-stands-aside-to-avoid-nightmare-of-tory-win

You'd have to wonder what Jo Swinson's thought process is here, it really looks like Tory-enablement.

She must be hoping to go into coalition again, I’d say. She doesn’t really stand for anything politically so may have no problem cutting a deal with Johnson.