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ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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    #3422
    HorrorScope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭HorrorScope


    tuxy wrote: »
    For the lazy.

    https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship/how-do-i-renounce-my-citizenship/

    It would not have been possible for Lisa to qualify for all three requirements needed.
    Who can honestly thinks she attempted this process? Or that we can at least convince Turkey that she did.

    Why are you calling her Lisa? Didn’t she rename herself to some bull**** like Khadija to join her brethren over there?


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    #3423
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I did suggest you might educate yourself on what is involved in renouncing citizenship. clearly you have not done that. Merely becoming the citizen of another country does not renounce your irish citizenship.
    I didn't say that. You renounce your citizenship at a ceremony when you take on a new citizenship in a country that does not allow dual citizenship. At the time, IS had its own civil service which issued IS papers, and they did not allow dual citizenship.


    Of course you are right, Ireland inc. can choose not to recognise any of that.
    Pretend it never happened. Print her a new passport.

    The old one was either burned as part of the ceremony, or kept by the IS administration for use in possible future operations within Europe.


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    #3424
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    HorrorScope wrote: »
    Why are you calling her Lisa? Didn’t she rename herself to some bull**** like Khadija to join her brethren over there?

    Unlike you I don't believe in the legitimacy of the Islamic state and no country in the world does. It would not be possible for her to legally change her name or citizenship in an illegitimate country.


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    #3425
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,320 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    recedite wrote: »
    I didn't say that. You renounce your citizenship at a ceremony when you take on a new citizenship in a country that does not allow dual citizenship. At the time, IS had its own civil service which issued IS papers, and they did not allow dual citizenship.


    Of course you are right, Ireland inc. can choose not to recognise any of that.
    Pretend it never happened. Print her a new passport.

    The old one was either burned as part of the ceremony, or kept by the IS administration for use in possible future operations within Europe.

    why would we recognise any of that? are you saying that we should recognise IS as a legitimate state? would that not make the IS fighters prisoners of war and not terrorists?


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    #3426
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,320 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    tuxy wrote: »
    Unlike you I don't believe in the legitimacy of the Islamic state and no country in the world does. It would not be possible for her to legally change her name or citizenship in an illegitimate country.

    recedite seems to recognise it as a legitimate state.


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    #3427
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    recedite wrote: »
    I didn't say that. You renounce your citizenship at a ceremony when you take on a new citizenship in a country that does not allow dual citizenship. At the time, IS had its own civil service which issued IS papers, and they did not allow dual citizenship.


    Of course you are right, Ireland inc. can choose not to recognise any of that.
    Pretend it never happened. Print her a new passport.

    I still find it hard to believe that Ireland recognised the islamic state and Turkey won't buy that either.


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    #3428
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    recedite seems to recognise it as a legitimate state.

    I'm actually shocked at the number of posters that believe it to be a legitimate country.


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    #3429
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    tuxy wrote: »
    For the lazy.

    https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship/how-do-i-renounce-my-citizenship/

    It would not have been possible for Lisa to qualify for all three requirements needed.
    Who can honestly thinks she attempted this process? Or that we can at least convince Turkey that she did.
    You dont have to do that.
    When did you renounce your membership of the scouts, or the church?
    It is polite to send written notification, but not necessary in reality.


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    #3430
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Boggles wrote: »
    Incinerate 1000s of children?

    Did you read that from the Nazi handbook or come up with that on your own?

    You think they’re gonna grow up to be fine upstanding citizens??


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    #3431
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,320 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    recedite wrote: »
    You dont have to do that.
    When did you renounce your membership of the scouts, or the church?
    It is polite to send written notification, but not necessary in reality.

    Yes you do. It is quite clearly laid out by the government.

    http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/citizenship-renounce-reclaim


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    #3432
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    recedite wrote: »
    You dont have to do that.
    When did you renounce your membership of the scouts, or the church?
    It is polite to send written notification, but not necessary in reality.

    Wrong, there is a process to leave the Roman Catholic Church legally but it is not easy so is very unusual for people to do so.
    The scouts is a club that require yearly membership isn't it?


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    #3433
    terryduff12
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭terryduff12


    Will she be converting back to Catholicism when she`s back since she was brainwashed? or can she leave her current religion?


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    #3434
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    terryduff12 wrote: »
    Will she be converting back to Catholicism when she`s back since she was brainwashed? or can she leave her current religion?

    She would be legally entitled to practice any religion she chooses. Ireland does not discriminate on the basis of religion.


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    #3435
    HorrorScope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭HorrorScope


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    You think they’re gonna grow up to be fine upstanding citizens??

    Careful now, I got carded for the same sentiments...


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    #3436
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    recedite seems to recognise it as a legitimate state.
    Not any more, its gone now. But for a few years it had all the trappings of a state. Israel, the Jewish State, was also founded in fire and war.

    Also encouraged co-religionists to leave their home countries and come to the frontiers to populate the newly conquered territory.
    In these situations, what you have to do is win. Recognition can come later.


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    #3437
    blueshade
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 428 ✭✭blueshade


    tuxy wrote: »
    Unlike you I don't believe in the legitimacy of the Islamic state and no country in the world does. It would not be possible for her to legally change her name or citizenship in an illegitimate country.

    I think that you are missing the point. These people who leave their home countries, travel to the Middle East to literally spread their legs for jihadists to breed a bigger army of jihadists have no interest in legality or legitimacy of citizenship. They want a world dominated by Muslims who adhere to Islam in it's original form. Anyone who dissents is the enemy and is to be murdered.

    The only way to deal with her and her kind is to bomb the camps into oblivion. Kill each and every single one of them because make no mistake about this, those cute little kiddies in the camps are going to grow up to be evil c u n t s who will go out and butcher innocent people in the name of their pedophile prophet. Yet still there will be fookwits who believe that having brought them back and let them go on killing sprees in Europe was the right thing to do. You cannot show these people mercy or kindness they see it as weakness to be exploited.


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    #3438
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    recedite wrote: »
    Not any more, its gone now. But for a few years it had all the trappings of a state. Israel, the Jewish State, was also founded in fire and war.

    Also encouraged co-religionists to leave their home countries and come to the frontiers to populate the newly conquered territory.
    In these situations, what you have to do is win. Recognition can come later.

    So if IS make a come back and is recognised internationally we can send her back?
    That's good to know, I'll keep my fingers crossed.


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    #3439
    HorrorScope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭HorrorScope


    blueshade wrote: »
    I think that you are missing the point. These people who leave their home countries, travel to the Middle East to literally spread their legs for jihadists to breed a bigger army of jihadists have no interest in legality or legitimacy of citizenship. They want a world dominated by Muslims who adhere to Islam in it's original form. Anyone who dissents is the enemy and is to be murdered.

    The only way to deal with her and her kind is to bomb the camps into oblivion. Kill each and every single one of them because make no mistake about this, those cute little kiddies in the camps are going to grow up to be evil c u n t s who will go out and butcher innocent people in the name of their pedophile prophet. Yet still there will be fookwits who believe that having brought them back and let them go on killing sprees in Europe was the right thing to do. You cannot show these people mercy or kindness they see it as weakness to be exploited.

    Careful now you too, they are all innocent babas in there who need to be saved and re-educated....


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    #3440
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    blueshade wrote: »
    Yet still there will be fookwits who believe that having brought them back and let them go on killing sprees in Europe was the right thing to do. You cannot show these people mercy or kindness they see it as weakness to be exploited.

    Is Ireland insisting Turkey deports her?


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    #3441
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    tuxy wrote: »
    Wrong, there is a process to leave the Roman Catholic Church legally but it is not easy so is very unusual for people to do so.
    Not any more. They dropped it.


    Not sure about the scouts. There is a swearing in ceremony, but no swearing out ceremony. When you stop showing up, you have renounced your membership.


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    #3442
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    recedite wrote: »
    Not any more. They dropped it.


    Not sure about the scouts. There is a swearing in ceremony, but no swearing out ceremony. When you stop showing up, you have renounced your membership.

    Well that's good to know, my info is out of date.
    Are these things somehow linked to international law on citizenship?
    I'm not sure I see the connection.


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    #3443
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    tuxy wrote: »
    So if IS make a come back and is recognised internationally we can send her back?
    That's good to know, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
    hey, if an Irish passport can rise again from the ashes, maybe IS can too :pac:

    It wasn't the first ever Caliphate BTW. Just the latest one.
    Next time you eat a croissant, remember Vienna.


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    #3444
    HorrorScope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭HorrorScope


    tuxy wrote: »
    Well that's good to know, my info is out of date.
    Are these things somehow linked to international law on citizenship?
    I'm not sure I see the connection.

    Aren’t we so proper in this country? Worried about human rights and international law and citizenship for ****ing morons who signed up to the most savage group in history bar the barbarians?

    Did Isis care when they were cutting the heads off innocent men and women? Burning Jordanian pilots to death in a ****ing cage? Throwing the gays off rooftops and crucifying non believers in their ****hole strongholds? I have no sympathy for any member of Isis, I hope every last one of them die roaring and in the most painful method possible. **** Isis and everyone involved with them.


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    #3445
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    recedite wrote: »
    hey, if an Irish passport can rise again from the ashes, maybe IS can too :pac:

    It wasn't the first ever Caliphate BTW. Just the latest one.
    Next time you eat a croissant, remember Vienna.

    But you don't a passport to be an Irish citizen. Destroying it is not how citizenship is renounced.
    Her new travel documents will make it easier for Turkey to deport her to Ireland but are not required.


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    #3446
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    HorrorScope wrote: »
    Aren’t we so proper in this country? Worried about human rights and international law and citizenship for ****ing morons who signed up to the most savage group in history bar the barbarians?

    Did Isis care when they were cutting the heads off innocent men and women? Burning Jordanian pilots to death in a ****ing cage? Throwing the gays off rooftops and crucifying non believers in their ****hole strongholds? I have no sympathy for any member of Isis, I hope every last one of them die roaring and in the most painful method possible. **** Isis and everyone involved with them.

    We recognise Turkey's right to deport one of our citizens. We have no way that I know of to make her stateless. If you know something I don't on the legalities of making a citizen stateless then speak up.


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    #3447
    HorrorScope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭HorrorScope


    tuxy wrote: »
    We recognise Turkey's right to deport one of our citizens. We have no way that I know of to make her stateless. If you know something I don't on the legalities of making a citizen stateless then speak up.

    There should be exceptions particularly for members of this group. We are too sensitive in the western world when it comes to dealing with these people. Absolutely no mercy should be shown to any of them.


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    #3448
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    HorrorScope wrote: »
    There should be exceptions particularly for members of this group. We are too sensitive in the western world when it comes to dealing with these people. Absolutely no mercy should be shown to any of them.

    I still don't see how she would become Turkey's responsibility legally.


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    #3449
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    recedite wrote: »
    You know its not really a Death Cult right? That's just the media buzzword.
    They are just Muslims trying to live their lives strictly according to the Koran.
    Obviously the media don't like to admit it, because it doesn't fit into the trendy "multiculturalism is best" worldview, but that's how it is.
    Check out that sky news reporter when he goes into the camp and challenges a random woman why she supports head chopping (somewhat unfairly it has to be said, as she has probably never chopped off anyone's head)
    Quick as a flash, she replies "because its in the Koran". as far as they are concerned, thats the end of the matter. There is no further argument to be had.

    In many ways, they are equivalent to the Puritan "founding fathers" who landed in America. Lots of bad stuff happened back then - genocide against the Native Americans, burning of witches etc.
    If you could go back in time and ask them to justify it, the answer would be simple; "because its in the Bible".

    That's not to justify either bunch of fundamentalists. But its sobering to think that one group are lauded as founding fathers, and the other as a death cult, only because one group won their war, and the other group lost theirs.

    Assume you’re trolling but just to remind you that it is Isis policy to throw gays off roofs, kill all Shias as heretics. Posted countless videos of them beheading westerners,Christians. Carried out genocide against Yazidhi men and took the women as sex slaves.
    Slaughtered many in Europe as they want to wipe out our countries and form a caliphate, all going on when Lisa signed up and thought I fancy this.
    But hey believe they were just soldiers!


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    #3450
    blueshade
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 428 ✭✭blueshade


    HorrorScope wrote: »
    Careful now you too, they are all innocent babas in there who need to be saved and re-educated....

    Unfortunately they're not. The poor kids never stood a chance. There's been obvious proof around the world that the children of African and Muslim migrants don't integrate with their peers in the host country. They simply become lawless and stabby which is evident in London in particular as well as Sweden, at least Britain doesn't have the grenade attacks yet though. The issue isn't colour, as much as some people would like to stifle debate, it's culture and religion that are at odds with the rest of society.

    There is simply no integrating those children in camps into the modern world. They are too fooked up to turn out normally in their own culture to bring them to Europe would be cruel for them and a death sentence for Europeans. I'd love it if there were a happy fluffy fuzzy bunny ending to the situation but there isn't one. I'm thinking of that scene in Jaws where the parents walk up to Sheriff Brody and the mother slaps his face and says ''you knew, but you still let people go in the water, now my boys dead''. That's what's coming down the line, not a shark but an equally cold calculating predator.


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    #3451
    HorrorScope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭HorrorScope


    tuxy wrote: »
    I still don't see how she would become Turkey's responsibility legally.

    I’m talking about anybody taking responsibility for her, I’m saying they should put a bullet between her eyes like anyone else associated with this group. I’m sure we could contribute to disposal of the body, it would be a lot cheaper than sending ARW over to bring this **** home. How much is a jerry can of petrol and matches in Turkey?


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