Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Options
1…224225227229230…247

Comments

  • Options
    #6782
    tupenny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭tupenny


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    It’s bigger than that though.
    Those two (I hate even calling them boys but) their two families are now living in a situation where everyone knows who they are. Their colleagues and employers in their jobs know who they are. Their poor siblings are getting beaten up and abused.

    And still certain people want to go the whole hog eye for an eye and be as vicious and brutal as they were.

    We’re all angry and sad about this but we’re not effing animals. Can we stop with the pitchforks?
    Online and otherwise.

    Last thing her poor parents would want to see is some innocent kid battered for the crimes of his brother. And yet here we are.

    I hope the state is helping them and funding them to move far away.

    You've no clue


  • Options
    #6783
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Ana Kriegel: Parents to sue local education board over school's response to bullying allegations.

    https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/grieving-parents-ana-kriegel-sue-17234290

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Options
    #6784
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    tupenny wrote: »
    You've no clue

    No? Care to enlighten us?


  • Options
    #6785
    reg114
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭reg114


    So many questions about this case and so much abdication of responsibility. The sentencing is really quite shocking. I believe sentences in such serious crimes should serve to protect society in the first place and rehabilitate last. If this crime had been committed in some states in America youd be looking at a death sentence regardless of the age of the offenders. In practically all states you would be looking at a whole life sentence at the very least.

    In the absence of a death penalty which I would absolutely bring back in Ireland in a heartbeat, I believe if you are responsible for the loss of life of another through murder, then your own liberty should be denied till you die. Society will not benefit from these two being re-integrated in 10 or 15 years time. I would argue that the level of psychopathy evident in this case is beyond treatment and thus a lifetime of incarceration is the only answer. If you commit an 'adult' crime then you do the 'adult' time.The nature of their heinous murder is such that there are no mitigating circumstances for me whatsoever. We should at least have a referendum regarding bringing back the death penalty. Its an unpalatable discussion for most but I would ask you this, what if it was your daughter, sister, partner or mother who had been so callously slayed in a derelict house ? Would you be happy with the perpetrators serving 10 to 15 and then possibly walking past you on the street unbeknownst to you? Remember few people know their identities whereas they know the parents faces. Where is the fairness anywhere in this story?


  • Options
    #6786
    gimli2112
    Registered Users Posts: 13,407 ✭✭✭✭gimli2112


    there was some case in the UK last week, I only caught the headline but someone was sentenced to 25 years for importing £40K of drugs. I've no issue with that it just makes the sentence in this case seem rather paltry.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #6787
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    reg114 wrote: »
    We should at least have a referendum regarding bringing back the death penalty.

    The death penalty is illegal in the EU and EU law has supremacy over our legislation. So a referendum would be a waste of time because we can't change the law even if we wanted to.

    Unless of course we do an Irexit.


  • Options
    #6788
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    reg114 wrote: »
    If this crime had been committed in some states in America youd be looking at a death sentence regardless of the age of the offenders.

    I don't think the US of A's justice system is something we should aspire to.


  • Options
    #6789
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    reg114 wrote: »
    If this crime had been committed in some states in America youd be looking at a death sentence regardless of the age of the offenders. In practically all states you would be looking at a whole life sentence at the very least.


    Not a single US state sentences people who committed a crime as a minor to death anymore.


  • Options
    #6790
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    Omackeral wrote: »
    I don't think the US of A's justice system is something we should aspire to.


    When I was studying law it was always considered by our lecturers a sure sign that your scraping the bottom of the barrel with your argument when citing US case law haha.


  • Options
    #6791
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Didn’t see this posted. Mostly on Oberstown. Apparently B was crying in the car on the way to Oberstown asking to kept away from A as he was scared of him and the place is just too small to keep them segregated. They’re also unusual in that most kids only spend a few months at most in there given relatively minor offenses.
    Also details on what’ll happen when they’re transferred to prison proper.

    Really interesting read. Conor Gallagher from the IT. His coverage of the whole trial has Been brilliant but hard on him personally it seems.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ana-kriegel-murder-oberstown-not-used-to-handling-convicted-murderers-1.4073130?mode=amp


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #6792
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Didn’t see this posted. Mostly on Oberstown. Apparently B was crying in the car on the way to Oberstown asking to kept away from A as he was scared of him and the place is just too small to keep them segregated. They’re also unusual in that most kids only spend a few months at most in there given relatively minor offenses.
    Also details on what’ll happen when they’re transferred to prison proper.

    Really interesting read. Conor Gallagher from the IT. His coverage of the whole trial has Been brilliant but hard on him personally it seems.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ana-kriegel-murder-oberstown-not-used-to-handling-convicted-murderers-1.4073130?mode=amp

    Just trying to lay the sympathy foundation in order to help his appeal :mad:

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Options
    #6793
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    Just trying to lay the sympathy foundation in order to help his appeal :mad:

    I’d imagine so.
    But I’d also say it’s true. A knows well had B just did what he did and kept his mouth shut it would have been a much harder case. That Newstalk podcast with the 3 journalists all said B literally hung himself and had he’d been no comment all the way through, there’s no way he would have been convicted. Fancied himself able to pull on over the police though.
    It’s still mad he got more than A but well deserved.


  • Options
    #6794
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    gimli2112 wrote: »
    there was some case in the UK last week, I only caught the headline but someone was sentenced to 25 years for importing £40K of drugs. I've no issue with that it just makes the sentence in this case seem rather paltry.

    I seen some other guy got 10 years for attempting to rob Mesut Ozil.

    Now obviously it's a different jurisdiction but sentences here are similar. Extremely harsh sometimes for fairly minor offences and then outrageously light for very serious crimes.


  • Options
    #6795
    Bigbagofcans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Bigbagofcans


    Oberstown sounds like a great aul place.

    Each detainee has their own TV which can be used between 9am and 2am the following day.

    School classes are from 10am to 3pm.
    At 3pm the children have free time for phone calls and video games.
    At 4pm activities are scheduled such as cooking, art and swimming.

    Meals are chosen by the children from a variety menu.

    At weekends they get a fry for breakfast.


  • Options
    #6796
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    I’d imagine so.
    But I’d also say it’s true. A knows well had B just did what he did and kept his mouth shut it would have been a much harder case. That Newstalk podcast with the 3 journalists all said B literally hung himself and had he’d been no comment all the way through, there’s no way he would have been convicted. Fancied himself able to pull on over the police though.
    It’s still mad he got more than A but well deserved.

    Boy B did not get more than boy A

    Boy A - Life reviewed after 12 years

    Boy B - 15 years - reviewed after 8 years

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Options
    #6797
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    Boy B did not get more than boy A

    Boy A - Life reviewed after 12 years

    Boy B - 15 years - reviewed after 8 years

    Well 15 is more than 12. I understand you’re saying he’ll be out earlier but remember he’s appealing the conviction, he will lose that and it’ll backfire when it comes to review as it shows no remorse and unwillingness to take responsibility. That’ll sink all his chances when review rolls around.


  • Options
    #6798
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Well 15 is more than 12.


    Boy A got life, literal life! The review after 12 years is something the media are spinning out of control. All life sentences are reviewed after 12 years....(well the sentence itself inst reviewed, the possibility of release is)



    Boy A got the harshest sentence possible in the state.


  • Options
    #6799
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    Boy A got life, literal life! The review after 12 years is something the media are spinning out of control. All life sentences are reviewed after 12 years....(well the sentence itself inst reviewed, the possibility of release is)



    Boy A got the harshest sentence possible in the state.

    I know but on here and elsewhere you’d swear he’ll be out next week with full anonymity.


  • Options
    #6800
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    Boy A got life, literal life! The review after 12 years is something the media are spinning out of control. All life sentences are reviewed after 12 years....(well the sentence itself inst reviewed, the possibility of release is)



    Boy A got the harshest sentence possible in the state.

    And the point is that for a lot of people that the problem isn’t judges: it’s the sentencing possibilities open to them.


  • Options
    #6801
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,167 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    KWAG2019 wrote: »
    And the point is that for a lot of people that the problem isn’t judges: it’s the sentencing possibilities open to them.

    Boy A got the longest possible sentence a judge can give for either adults or children.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #6802
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Boy A got the longest possible sentence a judge can give for either adults or children.


    And to be fair the the judge, they have some discretion with regards to when a review takes place. Normally its between 7 and 12 years and even still he went with the max allowable, 12 years.


  • Options
    #6803
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Is there anywhere or any kind of way you can read the information and judges conclusions apart from his final judgement/that lead to his final judgement? Or is that stuff protected? Seems like something that would have to be made officially on record


  • Options
    #6804
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Well 15 is more than 12. I understand you’re saying he’ll be out earlier but remember he’s appealing the conviction, he will lose that and it’ll backfire when it comes to review as it shows no remorse and unwillingness to take responsibility. That’ll sink all his chances when review rolls around.

    You are totally confused regarding the difference between sentence and review.

    Sentence for A was Life

    Sentence for B was 15 years

    Review for A is 12 years

    Review for B is 8 years.

    No matter how you juggle it, Boy A got the harsher sentence.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Options
    #6805
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,167 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Bigbagofcans wrote: »
    Oberstown sounds like a great aul place.

    Each detainee has their own TV which can be used between 9am and 2am the following day.

    School classes are from 10am to 3pm.
    At 3pm the children have free time for phone calls and video games.
    At 4pm activities are scheduled such as cooking, art and swimming.

    Meals are chosen by the children from a variety menu.

    At weekends they get a fry for breakfast.

    I'd say you woiuld be crying for your mammy as soon as you realise you cant walk out the door when you want. Or do much of anything when you want.


  • Options
    #6806
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    You are totally confused regarding the difference between sentence and review.

    Sentence for A was Life

    Sentence for B was 15 years

    Review for A is 12 years

    Review for B is 8 years.

    No matter how you juggle it, Boy A got the harsher sentence.

    Thanks for that. Befuddled after listening to that Newstalk pod on it.

    *they go far harder on B and get into his testimony more and address he’s a devious little so n so


  • Options
    #6807
    reg114
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭reg114


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    When I was studying law it was always considered by our lecturers a sure sign that your scraping the bottom of the barrel with your argument when citing US case law haha.

    Case law is not the same thing as the US penal system. I do believe their sentencing is far longer for all crimes than it is in Ireland. We have to bring in far tougher sentences including consecutive sentencing here.


  • Options
    #6808
    reg114
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭reg114


    Bigbagofcans wrote: »
    Oberstown sounds like a great aul place.

    Each detainee has their own TV which can be used between 9am and 2am the following day.

    School classes are from 10am to 3pm.
    At 3pm the children have free time for phone calls and video games.
    At 4pm activities are scheduled such as cooking, art and swimming.

    Meals are chosen by the children from a variety menu.

    At weekends they get a fry for breakfast.

    I would remove all tvs and ban all internet access, video games.
    Education is vital as is access to therapy but I would be very keen to fill any downtime with routine and work 7 days a week.
    Nutrition is also important, giving children a fry isnt a treat.


  • Options
    #6809
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    reg114 wrote: »
    Case law is not the same thing as the US penal system. I do believe their sentencing is far longer for all crimes than it is in Ireland. We have to bring in far tougher sentences including consecutive sentencing here.


    Its rarely if ever used in an argumentative sense here but it developed from the same common law system we have here, which was derived from the Brits. They've just gone their own way and really its not relevant to us.


  • Options
    #6810
    reg114
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭reg114


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    The death penalty is illegal in the EU and EU law has supremacy over our legislation. So a referendum would be a waste of time because we can't change the law even if we wanted to.

    Unless of course we do an Irexit.

    Wasnt aware of this. So a decade inside will cost the tax payer 3 million per inmate. Crazy.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #6811
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,287 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    reg114 wrote: »
    Case law is not the same thing as the US penal system. I do believe their sentencing is far longer for all crimes than it is in Ireland. We have to bring in far tougher sentences including consecutive sentencing here.

    I’d broadly agree that we need longer sentences for a lot of crimes but the American system is a mess and certainly does very little to keep crime rates down. Violent crimes should be punished much harder here. The life sentence we have can be very long but people get caught up in when they are eligible for release not when they are released.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement