General MMA Chat/News mk3 - No Spoilers Use Event Threads

sc86 · 07-11-2019 1:12am

Paddys book is out same time as this ! Wow what are chances!
Doesnt reflect well on john kavanagh at all but id like to see his version of the story

CatFromHue · 07-11-2019 1:35am

Just to play Devil's Advocate here but how much influence would Kavanagh have in deciding to implement a fee to use the SBG name?

I dunno much about the SBG group but I did think it was a worldwide group and so if you were using their name, even in Ireland, there would be some sort of fee.

It does look like it was handled badly but that doesn't mean Kavanagh was in charge of handling it at all, I thought he was just another affiliated gym to the group.

King does say he had a written contract that said there would be no fee so the devil is in the detail. SBG saying they acquired the European patents implies that it might have/probably came from the head office.

I could be completely wrong here of course.

Mellor · 07-11-2019 2:21am

CatFromHue wrote: »

Just to play Devil's Advocate here but how much influence would Kavanagh have in deciding to implement a fee to use the SBG name?

I dunno much about the SBG group but I did think it was a worldwide group and so if you were using their name, even in Ireland, there would be some sort of fee.

It does look like it was handled badly but that doesn't mean Kavanagh was in charge of handling it at all, I thought he was just another affiliated gym to the group.

King does say he had a written contract that said there would be no fee so the devil is in the detail. SBG saying they acquired the European patents implies that it might have/probably came from the head office.

I could be completely wrong here of course.

The "Matt" that was mentioned as begin at the subsequent meeting is Matt Thornton, the founder/president of SBG. It would have definitely been a HQ decision. But that said John is one of the Vice Presidents of SBG not just another affiliate payer. After Matt he is the highest ranked SBG black belt (along with the late Karl Tanswell in the UK).

I assume the fee were going to be split between SBG Ireland and SBG international.
Same way that Tom King was offered a head of BJJ role that involved him getting a cut from seminar fees.

bmcc10 · 07-11-2019 10:22am

Nate has retired again it seems. His fans are certainly a weird bunch no wonder he has such a sense of entitlement.

Tazzimus · 07-11-2019 10:56am

Fee wise, it's actually not that bad considering. It's about 400 a month, not extortionate anyway.
How it was handled though, that could have been a lot better, and possibly the real reason behind the falling out.

Zero-Cool · 07-11-2019 2:37pm

Looks like Ais had issues with them as well. Obvious as she joined them straight away but didn't/don't know the full story there.

https://twitter.com/aisydaly/status/1192431001307402240?s=19

MrStuffins · 07-11-2019 2:46pm

She touches on it a little on Paddy H's podcast. No great detail but hints at a few things

Tazzimus · 07-11-2019 3:05pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

She touches on it a little on Paddy H's podcast. No great detail but hints at a few things

Yeah was gonna say this, she kinda goes into it, mentions her relationship with John was fairly turbulent.
Decent podcast, she seems like a bitta craic. Be some laugh having her as your teacher in school.

Ush1 · 07-11-2019 5:12pm

So is Paddy still an affiliate since his gym is SBG?

rob316 · 07-11-2019 5:17pm

€5,000 a year franchise fee isn't excessive. That's what it is, but it depends on what you are getting back for that money.

However it seems to be handled really poorly, John putting business ahead of his personal relationships with all these coaches. He screwed over Paddy big time by taking the money and letting that investor take charge of SBG Tallaght.
John is weakening his level of coaches by acting this way, and its already a gym with a less than stellar record.

sc86 · 07-11-2019 7:48pm

Only for paddy and conor and few others nobody would have heard about sbg like its the household name it is now , seams poor form to cut them out of it like that

Zero-Cool · 07-11-2019 8:04pm

I loved following Ais, Paddy, Cathal, Chris, Gunni and Conor with JK at the helm. Felt like such a tight knit group and it's sad how it all turned out.

Nigzcurran · 07-11-2019 8:36pm

Zero-Cool wrote: »

I loved following Ais, Paddy, Cathal, Chris, Gunni and Conor with JK at the helm. Felt like such a tight knit group and it's sad how it all turned out.

All it needs now is for Conor to officially quit SBG and there will be none of them left which is mental

hunter164 · 07-11-2019 9:05pm

Damning indictment for JK, doesn’t paint him in the greatest light that all his former students are estranged. They can’t all be the problem?

dulux99 · 07-11-2019 9:21pm

Confirms what I've always known about JK. The man's a money hungry serpent. How cant the fighters under his current tutelage see this?

The likes of Crosbie, Gallagher et all have supposedly gotbaspirations to be "the best", but they're all being locked into iron clad contracts with the B show. The likes of Peter Queally, pouring his heart and soul into the sport, just ambling aimlessly from fight to fight in bellator with no chance of ever reaching the big show, due to John's connections with bellator.

Seems like they're happy to fight on forgettable European Bellator cards and spend all their time commenting on each others Instagram's saying "animal".

John's an ego maniac, and always has been. He looks after his own brand first and the fighters come after.

Mellor · 07-11-2019 9:54pm

dulux99 wrote: »

The likes of Crosbie, Gallagher et all have supposedly gotbaspirations to be "the best", but they're all being locked into iron clad contracts with the B show. The likes of Peter Queally, pouring his heart and soul into the sport, just ambling aimlessly from fight to fight in bellator with no chance of ever reaching the big show, due to John's connections with bellator.

The contract with Belator isn’t the biggest obstacle in reaching the big show to be fair.

Whelo79 · 07-11-2019 9:56pm

To be fair if John was a "money hungry serpent" as you put it, he would have insisted on payouts from the lads at the time they set up their own SBG gyms along with annual fees. If anything he was the complete opposite, he wanted to see his original crew go out and do well and make a few euro for themselves, so he let them set up under the SBG brand without looking for anything from them.

I'd say he couldn't ever have imagined that it would end up with so many of his old pros going out and setting up so many branches. In my opinion he is right to be looking for franchise fees, but from the reports we've seen it seems to have been handled in a really poor manner.

pastorbarrett · 07-11-2019 10:08pm

Always hard to discern the truth in these matters; there's the two sides to the story and then there's the truth somewhere in between too.

In any event, looks to be poorly managed from the outside. I doubt JK will comment until the next book!

Of course, we've all mutlifaceted persoanlities and many faces, though I personally could never square some of the drivel JK used to spout on twitter with the man you could see in interviews.

Paddy seems to enjoy his own commentary quite a bit too - nearly interviews himself on his podcasts. Might have been too well met.

bono_v · 07-11-2019 10:15pm

Nigzcurran wrote: »

All it needs now is for Conor to officially quit SBG and there will be none of them left which is mental

One tribe one vibe!!!!

CatFromHue · 07-11-2019 10:39pm

Didn't John train a couple of the lads for free at the start?

I thought that was mentioned by some of them.

fitzparker · 08-11-2019 9:10am

MrStuffins wrote: »

She touches on it a little on Paddy H's podcast. No great detail but hints at a few things

I heard a story from someone close that when Daly retired with a brain injury, Kavanagh emailed her straight away to empty her locker at SBG.

Regarding the fee, it's a franchise i think 5k isnt too bad (400 a month) but the way it was done feeds into peoples opinion of kavanagh.

I see Conor commented on Tom King status on twitter, basically saying let bygones be bygones.

yourdeadwright · 08-11-2019 11:31am

dulux99 wrote: »

Confirms what I've always known about JK. The man's a money hungry serpent. How cant the fighters under his current tutelage see this?

The likes of Crosbie, Gallagher et all have supposedly gotbaspirations to be "the best", but they're all being locked into iron clad contracts with the B show. The likes of Peter Queally, pouring his heart and soul into the sport, just ambling aimlessly from fight to fight in bellator with no chance of ever reaching the big show, due to John's connections with bellator.

Seems like they're happy to fight on forgettable European Bellator cards and spend all their time commenting on each others Instagram's saying "animal".

John's an ego maniac, and always has been. He looks after his own brand first and the fighters come after.

Iv always wondered why the likes of Gallagher & Crosbie continue to fight nobodies in Bellator if they are as good as they are suppose to be,

Forget the UFC for a second but there not even stepping up in competition in Bellator,

Its like Bellator realise they can put on a Irish show once a year and make themselves a fortune but to do so need to keep these lads,
They are always seen with Connor so it give them a bit of street cred and they also need decent records so give them gimme fights ,

With Gallagher they thought maybe he had the talent stepped him up once he got flattened so they went back to baby sitting him ,

08-11-2019 12:27pm

A lot of fighters fell for the catchphrases and cod philosophy, promises of loyalty and the SBG 'family'. JK is just a businessman. He's a guy selling a product and if you're not useful to that end anymore then please empty your locker.

US2 · 08-11-2019 12:33pm

The tweet

https://twitter.com/TheNotoriousMMA/status/1192610448165740544?s=19

Whelo79 · 08-11-2019 1:12pm

Joey Breslin, who was one of their best young BJJ coaches also speaking out now. Ais Daly tweeting 'something must be wrong of so many are speaking out.' SBG Mullingar is now Lakeland Jiu Jitsu.

It all seems to have come to a head. I've also heard that SBG Charlestown (Owen Roddy's place) have lost a couple of big sponsors. Supposedly due to their brand no longer wanting connections to the McGregor name for various reasons. Owen has had to rebalance the books by letting some coaches go. I wonder if there will be temptation there for Owen to jump ship from the SBG name too. Conor seems to be doing a lot of his boxing at Crumlin boxing club now, maybe there is no longer a place for Owen??

It's all pretty sad to see really. Hopefully all the smaller gyms, wether they remain as affiliates or not, are able to keep operating and earn a living for themselves.

Zero-Cool · 08-11-2019 1:19pm

Oooooooo

https://twitter.com/StrabanimalMMA/status/1192720696658583552?s=19

The Rooster · 08-11-2019 1:25pm

A very sensible tweet from Conor. A brain in there somewhere fighting to be let out more!

Whelo79 · 08-11-2019 1:35pm

The Rooster wrote: »

A very sensible tweet from Conor. A brain in there somewhere fighting to be let out more!

I always find it very insulting when the person who has been wronged gets told to 'let it go' when they are voicing their discontent or providing their side of a story.

Sensible from Conor alright as opposed to fanning the flames but I'm sure Tom would have settled down in a day or two. It's only yesterday he released this information after all.

dashoonage · 08-11-2019 1:49pm

There is a fantastic bellator card building here....SBG vs The World

rob316 · 08-11-2019 1:59pm

I think also the other gyms have a fear there best prospects will end up at Johns gym. Didn't Danni Neilan started off at SBG Mullingar? They have no interest in been feeder gyms for HQ maybe? Roddy and Paddy would have big enough reputations so would be able to retain their fighters.

General MMA Chat/News mk3 - **No Spoilers Use Event Threads**

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General MMA Chat/News mk3 - No Spoilers Use Event Threads