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DCM 2019 Graduates: the rest of your life that happens after the marathon
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Singer really appreciate you taking us on. The boards plan and mentor support were invaluable for my DCM training.
My goals over the next few months are to work on my times from 5k to half marathon. I'm not doing a marathon next year - if I do it again I'd like to do it as a faster runner with a decent hope of getting in under my 2019 time. I have signed up for Jingle Bells (and have promised to bring flap jacks for after!) and the Trim 10 mile. I'll likely also do the Mullingar Half on Paddys Day a and maybe the Great Ireland Run for my 10k.
I run with my local club but I stepped back from it during my training for DCM and opted for the boards plan instead. I'm hoping to mix and match between the grads plan and some club sessions to keep up with the gang. I loved all the easy miles of the boards plan but my clubmates just think I've lost it running so slowly! Since DCM I've done three easy runs and a short fartlek session at the track. I'm running 10k with clubmates Sat morning which will be their version of easy rather than mine. I had a quick look at the base plan - what's a progression run?
That's a set of good races on in your near future!
I think it's a great thing to be able to do sessions with your club, even if they don't always match exactly what's on a plan, running with a group is good socially and for your running. I see your progression question was answered elsewhere by far more knowledgable folks than me so I won't repeat their answers
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Thanks so much for taking us on, Singer
DCM 2019 was not my first marathon but I hadn’t raced one since 2002 so it was like beginning again. I have been running off and on and participating in races just for fun since college (I’m 43 now) but really want to focus on it this year and be more consistent. I really enjoy the gym/cardio classes and other sports but this is where my passion is and I want to be more organized in my approach. I will continue to participate in other activities (body combat, body pump, and maybe yoga if I can) but running will be my priority.
My goal this year is to improve my recent times in 5k, 10k, 10 miles, 1/2 and the full 26.2. I feel like my endurance is pretty good, I just need to work on speeding up
2019 PBs were 1:01:07 for 10k, 1:44:49 for 10 miles, 2:16:54 for 1/2, and 5:05:17 for the full. I haven’t done a 5k in recent memory. Parkruns unfortunately don’t suit as my kids are involved in sports on Saturday mornings all over the place.
I know I’m capable of quicker times, particularly for the marathon so looking to work on that.
So far, I’ve signed up for the Jingle Bells 5k, the Trim 10 mile, and DCM 2020. I’ll likely also do the Killary Gaelforce Bray Cliff 10k in April, Women’s Mini Marathon in May, the Bay 10k and definitely the three KBC race series races.
Right now I am following Hal Higdons post marathon recovery program, which is 5 weeks long, ending with a race which for me will be the JB 5k. After that I’ll switch to the grads plan.
Thanks again for the thread and guidance. The novices thread was invaluable to me and helped me stick to a plan instead of my usual haphazard approach to running and races. Looking forward to the year ahead and participating in this
Great stuff Doc76, you're well setup for the year already and sounds like you're on-track for a good Jingle Bells 0 -
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Two initial goals:
- Improve my physical durability through S&C 2-3 times a week, this has begun already - DCM broke me physically so I need to get stronger.
- Complete Donadea 50K within the 5 hour cutoff in February.
I'm not sure yet.
Woo, see you at Donadea :pac:
What weaknesses do you have that you're trying to solve with S&C? The most specific training for running is running, and more running will improve your durability and fitness. I'm not saying don't do S&C, but also don't discount the power of lots of easy running to train the body.I'd be interested to get some info surrounding runmutes, it was something I wanted to do towards end of the Novice program but didn't want to change my routine prior to DCM.
Finally, a topic that I can actually call myself semi-authoritative on
I use http://commutemarker.com/ to track my commutes between Dublin City Centre and Swords on Strava, according to it I have nearly 400 done over the last 4 years! Commutes are the backbone of my running and I think they're a very handy way of getting the miles in.
I prefer to run home. I always feel more sluggish in the morning, and I enjoy winding down after work with an easy commute. Also showering at home is usually nicer and quicker, and you don't have to have smelly clothes knocking around your desk and being dragged back home. I take them totally easy, not caring about pace so it doesn't matter about the backpack. My routine is that I leave a pair of shoes in work along with a hoody. I wear my running shoes into work in the morning then get out of them for the day. To cut down on ending up with piles of clothes in work I might wear my running top over a t-shirt if it's cold out rather than wearing other layers that just have to be brought back home. In my bag on the way home will be my laptop, trousers, coat and probably the t-shirt I wore in. I used to leave more clothes in the office but it ended up being a pain so just got into the habit of bringing everything home.
I've never actually run both ways, but might give it a go for fun sometime soon. Most people in work just assume that I do run both ways every day!0 -
Thanks Singer for taking this on - I really have to admire the commitment of the various mentors across the threads (both past and present). Fair play to you all. I am looking forward to seeing the progress.
Goals (ish)
I've signed up for Belfast and Dublin again next year, and will have a think about targets in the in coming months. Going to round the pb year out with a crack at 10k Seeley Cup at the end of November. I set my 10k pb in the Belfast half in September so all things being equal, it should be beatable - following a narrow 3 week plan for this, with training started on Monday. After that, I will work out targets for 2020 - I haven't got a training plan yet, but that will come in good time.
What am I hoping to get out of the thread
Mainly to stay motivated, encouraged and the answers to questions that I didn't know I had - that's what I have found most valuable to date. You don't know, what you don't know. I want to improve times, but in a steady progressive way and I think this thread will help.
Thanks again to all who give up their time and energy to keep us motivated.
Best of luck with the training for the Seeley Cup, let us know how it's going! 10k training is so easy after marathon training!
Seriously though you should have some good endurance banked from the marathon training, but do keep an eye on your body to make sure that you're properly recovered from DCM. 0 -
mister paul wrote: »1. Do you have any goals over the next few months? What are they and why?
I think that I can PB at every distance (1m up to marathon) again in 2020 (no pressure), so my target for the first half of the year is to focus on the shorter stuff, while also trying to up the overall mileage (a careful balance), as I think I need to build on my endurance.
I haven't signed up for any races yet, although I was hoping for an easy 4k/8k PB at the start of December, but they're sold out. I'm on a waiting list, but not too hopeful. Will probably start the year off with Raheny 5m (?? January) and Lusk 4m (01 March).
Beyond that, I haven't started looking for any races to target, although I'm guessing the BMS 5k and Bob Heffernan 5k will be in May, both fast races. Still need to start looking at what 10k/m & HM races I could focus on.
2. What would you like to get out of this thread?
I've really enjoyed "virtually" training with the other novices and hopefully we can all build on our achievements as graduates. All advice and support is appreciated.
I have a feeling our paths may cross offline a few times in the future...
It could be worth looking at the NIA Live events to knock out a nice mile PB over the winter (or maybe even an 800) - https://www.sportirelandcampus.ie/nialive
10k wise, there's always Dunshaughlin (which I've never done) and the underrated Drogheda 10k (which I've done twice). I approve of your general "increasing milage" idea though 0 -
Hey, congrats B, just seeing your elevation to the grads hot seat. No better man!
I haven’t engaged much with novice or grads threads in recent years - purely out of being occupied selfishly with my own schtick - but I hope the grads stick with you long enough for you to present the Singer “2nd marathon” plan. That may well be a sight to behold. No doubt it will not be lacking in authenticity.
(Tip to grads - start building mileage now.)
All the best to all!0 -
Wow what a great intro! Absolutely love the Dr Seuss quote...a firm favourite of mine is 'Oh the things you can find, if you don't stay behind'
Congratulations & best of luck taking us on
1. Do you have any goals over the next few months? What are they and why?
Ultimately i want to be a better runner. I want to understand it more, the different training sessions etc. I also want to see what my limit is, i want to see how hard i can push myself in a race & finish a race feeling like i actually couldn't have given any more if i tried! Getting some PB's in there would also be nice
I am loving running for now & found something i actually am naturally good at but am not afraid of hard work so given both i would like to see what improvements i can make. I aim to follow the plan but it will be tweaked a bit by SB to accommodate a few races & try out a few different things to follow on from DCM.
2. What would you like to get out of this thread?
As i am a solo runner for all my training the knowledge & encouragement i got from the novice thread has been invaluable! I would like to continue learning & asking for advice when needed;)
So far i have booked a few races(OH not allowed near the bank statements for at least a month)
Jingle bells 5k
Raheny 5mile
DCM 2020
I am also looking at either Bohermeen or Mullingar half as my target race. I really feel i have unfinished business at this distance & felt i never really grasped the race the way i would have liked to on the day.
Looking forward to any tips & advice given & progressing on from a Novice 0 -
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Woo, see you at Donadea :pac:
What weaknesses do you have that you're trying to solve with S&C? The most specific training for running is running, and more running will improve your durability and fitness. I'm not saying don't do S&C, but also don't discount the power of lots of easy running to train the body.
Physio after DCM said I was weak on one set of hip flexors compared to the others so I need to strengthen that side. I've been racking my brain as to what the cause of that is and I've come up with a hypothesis that I need to discuss with physio next week.
My hamstrings were also "unhappy" in the latter stages of DCM so I've started to strengthen them also. On top of hip/hamstring work I've been doing some calf raises (straight and bent legged with kettlebell), knee drives (with and without a band), single leg deadlift (bodyweight) and lunges (with kettlebell).
I'm looking forward to Donadea but I've a good bit of work to do prior to it. Hoping to follow the latter stages of the Hal Higdon 50K program but I've a few test runs to do before starting it to make sure the body is going to be cooperative in getting me to the start line in good shape.Finally, a topic that I can actually call myself semi-authoritative on
I use http://commutemarker.com/ to track my commutes between Dublin City Centre and Swords on Strava, according to it I have nearly 400 done over the last 4 years! Commutes are the backbone of my running and I think they're a very handy way of getting the miles in.
I prefer to run home. I always feel more sluggish in the morning, and I enjoy winding down after work with an easy commute. Also showering at home is usually nicer and quicker, and you don't have to have smelly clothes knocking around your desk and being dragged back home. I take them totally easy, not caring about pace so it doesn't matter about the backpack. My routine is that I leave a pair of shoes in work along with a hoody. I wear my running shoes into work in the morning then get out of them for the day. To cut down on ending up with piles of clothes in work I might wear my running top over a t-shirt if it's cold out rather than wearing other layers that just have to be brought back home. In my bag on the way home will be my laptop, trousers, coat and probably the t-shirt I wore in. I used to leave more clothes in the office but it ended up being a pain so just got into the habit of bringing everything home.
I've never actually run both ways, but might give it a go for fun sometime soon. Most people in work just assume that I do run both ways every day!
That's all great info. I might give it a go next week and see how I get on... with my leap card close to hand. Another question, do you go shortest route or do you occasionally add in additional mileage? It's not something I'd do out of the gate but curious if it can be done down the line. 0 -
I'm looking forward to Donadea but I've a good bit of work to do prior to it. Hoping to follow the latter stages of the Hal Higdon 50K program but I've a few test runs to do before starting it to make sure the body is going to be cooperative in getting me to the start line in good shape.
If it's of any comfort, I found running on the surface at Donadea easier than on the roads so you might have a bit of an easier time there. Also it should be less intense overall (though obviously it goes on for a bit longer).That's all great info. I might give it a go next week and see how I get on... with my leap card close to hand. Another question, do you go shortest route or do you occasionally add in additional mileage? It's not something I'd do out of the gate but curious if it can be done down the line.
Me? Add additional milage? Perish the thought
I usually go either the 9 mile route (straight up the Swords Road) or the 10 mile route (up the Malahide Road and then over to the Swords Road via Griffith Avenue or Collins Avenue). The 10 mile route is a nicer run, which does matter when you're doing it all the bloody time Very occasionally I treat my self to 11 miles by going up the Malahide Road all the way to Malahide and then over to Swords, but that's only if I'm feeling particularly perky. 0 -
Charliebull wrote: »went and played a 7 a side match last night with a group of friends, could not get over how much my fitness has improved since training for the DCM
it was also a dam fine (enjoyable) alternative workout, just wondering does anyone use an alternative sporting activity as one of their sessions, its going to be a regular slot, could it be substituted for one of the slots on the base phase or is that a stupid question
It only really counts as cross-training so wouldn't be a good replacement for anything on a training plan, other than one of the optional easy days. It is important to enjoy whatever you're doing, so I would encourage you to fit it in. It might be a different story in the hardest few weeks near the end of a long marathon training plan though 0 -
It only really counts as cross-training so wouldn't be a good replacement for anything on a training plan, other than one of the optional easy days. It is important to enjoy whatever you're doing, so I would encourage you to fit it in. It might be a different story in the hardest few weeks near the end of a long marathon training plan though
thanks yes that is what I had thought,0 -
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Laineyfrecks wrote: »1. Do you have any goals over the next few months? What are they and why?
Ultimately i want to be a better runner. I want to understand it more, the different training sessions etc. I also want to see what my limit is, i want to see how hard i can push myself in a race & finish a race feeling like i actually couldn't have given any more if i tried! Getting some PB's in there would also be nice
I am loving running for now & found something i actually am naturally good at but am not afraid of hard work so given both i would like to see what improvements i can make. I aim to follow the plan but it will be tweaked a bit by SB to accommodate a few races & try out a few different things to follow on from DCM.
It sounds like you've really been bitten by the running bug :pac: Follow plan and target races that suit you. It's nice to have a common plan that other people are doing that you can share experiences with etc., but the most important thing is that you are doing what motivates, challenges and inspires you. I'm not advising you to go straight to 100 mile weeks right away (maybe in a few years?), but as long as you're listening to your body, following structured training and enjoying things you can't go wrong. I mostly ignored the plan on my own DCM graduates thread, as I had a good idea of what I was capable of and was going after (I didn't actually do what I wanted to do, but that's another story ). We're here to help and support each other rather than hold each other back.Laineyfrecks wrote: »2. What would you like to get out of this thread?
As i am a solo runner for all my training the knowledge & encouragement i got from the novice thread has been invaluable! I would like to continue learning & asking for advice when needed;)
So far i have booked a few races(OH not allowed near the bank statements for at least a month)
Jingle bells 5k
Raheny 5mile
DCM 2020
I am also looking at either Bohermeen or Mullingar half as my target race. I really feel i have unfinished business at this distance & felt i never really grasped the race the way i would have liked to on the day.
Looking forward to any tips & advice given & progressing on from a Novice
That's a pretty great set of races 0 -
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It sounds like you've really been bitten by the running bug :pac: Follow plan and target races that suit you. It's nice to have a common plan that other people are doing that you can share experiences with etc., but the most important thing is that you are doing what motivates, challenges and inspires you. I'm not advising you to go straight to 100 mile weeks right away (maybe in a few years?), but as long as you're listening to your body, following structured training and enjoying things you can't go wrong. I mostly ignored the plan on my own DCM graduates thread, as I had a good idea of what I was capable of and was going after (I didn't actually do what I wanted to do, but that's another story ). We're here to help and support each other rather than hold each other back.
That's a pretty great set of races
Thanks a mill for the reply Yes i can honestly say i feel motivated, challenged & inspired to see what i can achieve! Looking forward to getting stuck into another plan & seeing what comes from that 0 -
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Whats the average km use that we should retire our runners at? Im currently trying to justify buying a new pair!
Around 500km, but it depends. It's good to have a few pairs on the go and rotate them on your runs, using the older pairs for easy and recovery runs, that prolongs the life of them and makes sure that you're doing the hardest running on the best shoes. I throw them out (or relegate them to the shed for use when gardening... not that that happens much ) when they feel like they have no bounce, feel uneven due to wear and tear or my feet/legs feel bad after running on them. Having a few pairs of runners on the go is rumoured to be good for injury prevention too.
This is a decent article on the topic:
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/when-to-retire-a-running-shoe/
So, buy the runners, but don't throw out the other pair 0 -
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Around 500km, but it depends. It's good to have a few pairs on the go and rotate them on your runs, using the older pairs for easy and recovery runs, that prolongs the life of them and makes sure that you're doing the hardest running on the best shoes. I throw them out (or relegate them to the shed for use when gardening... not that that happens much ) when they feel like they have no bounce, feel uneven due to wear and tear or my feet/legs feel bad after running on them. Having a few pairs of runners on the go is rumoured to be good for injury prevention too.
This is a decent article on the topic:
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/when-to-retire-a-running-shoe/
So, buy the runners, but don't throw out the other pair
Great advice! Good thinking to keep my marathon ones for easy runs too, i had never thought about that. Ive two pairs that i rotated since the summer, so a few miles in them yet, then they will be demoted to Easy.
I was thinking of getting the Hoka One One's as my next pair, pricey but shur we are all worth expensive shoes as marathon grads
Well once my bruises and black toes go back to normal that is...if it ever will happen!0 -
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Ok! We're all here now, so what's next?
Well, hopefully some running By now most of you will have gotten out and done a few miles on those very legs that were brutalised and worn out two weeks ago. Is it ok to have done near to nothing? Totally! Many plans prescribe zero miles for a week or two or three after the marathon, so that your body has recovered before you're considering anything else.
The best marathoner ever, Eliud Kipchoge, does a few recovery runs after a marathon and then takes a few weeks off: https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9522100
The main thing is that YOU are ready for whatever YOU want to do next. Maybe you feel ok doing a parkrun a week or two after the marathon. That's ok! However the main thing is that you feel recovered after the marathon and ready to tackle whatever's next. For most of you, this was your first marathon, so a lengthy recovery after a race might be a new thing. Do err on the side of recovery if you need to - any ongoing niggles, or tiredness should be addressed before plunging into a training plan.
Speaking of a new training plan, many of you may be ready to take on something new. The good news is that after a marathon cycle you've likely got a load of fitness ready to be used. You're probably as fit as you've ever been in your life. Now we just gotta build on it
The plan is pretty easy this week. It's ok if you want to do something else, or catch up next week. The main thing is to get back into a consistent routine.
So I said that I'd do a bit of Q&A as well as setting a weekly "challenge" as part of the thread. The good part is that you can entirely ignore this stuff and run whenever you want I just want folks logging their running, asking their questions and giving their insights. But anyway, here goes:
Q. What’s the worst run you’ve ever done?
Challenge of the week: Find somebody who supported you on your marathon journey and do something nice for them.0 -
TProgression runs
I googled progression runs (never had to do one on the boards novice plan!) and I think I get the basic idea. Wondering what paces to do though ie where to start and how many increments? Start very easy, move to easy and so on up to MP??
Yep, that's the plan! I wouldn't worry too much about the precise paces, as long as the effort increases throughout. Ideally you hit MP, maybe HMPDetermining pace from calculator
As I mentioned previously I'm not the most experienced at races, just did the race series and marathon so far. My marathon is obviously my most recent race but I fell off a bit of a cliff in the last 4 miles so not sure if that's the best race to pick to determine my training paces? My half marathon to me seems a bit more representative- ok to use that or is the whole point to use the most recent even if it wasn't best performance.
Any guidance gratefully appreciated. Thanks
I think it'd be harsh to include a classic marathon slowdown for figuring out your race pace across multiple distances. The marathon is an exceptional beat. HM pace sounds good.0 -
Q. What’s the worst run you’ve ever done?
The one that stands out the most is a run i did the Wednesday before the Frank Duffy 10mile! It was a really tough day in work & was having an extremely challenging time at home, in particular with my son! I set off after a little row & it started to rain as i ran down the main road, now i have ran plenty of times in the rain & its not something that ever bothers me! But this day i had just had enough:eek: I honestly felt like stopping(i know i defo cried), I 100% questioned why the hell i was running a marathon, why do all this training with other crap going on?? I also really couldn't see myself racing that Saturday! Luckily I continued on & did what was set out for me. I got home & had a serious think. I decided not to give up & in fact realized how much i actually needed my running I went out that Saturday & raced my very 1st 10miler in quite a respectable time
Challenge of the week: Find somebody who supported you on your marathon journey and do something nice for them.
Already treated my OH and have ice skating booked for the kids as a huge thank you 1 -
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Worst run?
An 'easy' 8km months ago, had a constant stitch from about 2km to finish. It was awful, would not let up, but i would not let it beat me. It was a battle of the mind, but i got through it. I was never so happy to get back home!!
Great idea to get OH something, have already done this 0 -
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