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DCM 2019 Graduates: the rest of your life that happens after the marathon

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46



    what does 10 x 100 strides ap with full recovery mean

    AP is Aerobic Power on the pace chart. You should find that it is very close to your 5k race pace.

    The full recovery means just that. Recover fully between each one. This means the recoveries may get longer as you move through the set of strides. Make sure your breathing has returned to normal and if you have a HR monitor you can check that your pulse returns to the same level as prior to beginning the session before taking on the next 100m stride.

    You did strides on the Boards plan? If not....first 30m gradual pace build up to hit 5k pace for 40m before easing down gradually over the last 30m. Concentrate on being in control and keeping your running form tidy. They are not a 100m sprint.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    py wrote: »



    I'd be interested to get some info surrounding runmutes, it was something I wanted to do towards end of the Novice program but didn't want to change my routine prior to DCM.
    Do people do it both ways or go one way and then public transport the other? I'm leaning towards running in to Dublin City but I'm not sure the decline all the way there is going to be of benefit versus the slight incline the opposite way. I do prefer morning runs though.
    How should they be run due to the added weight of a backpack? Should pace be slower due to elevated HR? (I'm assuming elevated HR due to extra weight) I'm required by work to bring my laptop home with me so that's 1.5Kg already before adding phone/clothes/lunch etc.


    This may or may not be helpful to you. It may only be helpful if you can manage to work a way you didn't have to bring your laptop home even once a week. Either way I wouldn't recommend running with a full bag of clothes and laptop so if you try below you may only have to carry laptop.
    This is what I occasionally do. I use a bike but works same way for Bus etc.


    Lets assume you have a shower and somewhere to throw a bag overnight in work.


    Get your bus into work with your backpack on Monday including running gear for way home that evening. Bring a phone holder so you can stick your phone, house key, debit card, leap etc in it. Also in your back pack are a change of clothes for following days work(don't forget the underwear or you will have an uncomfortable Tuesday) and a towel, shower gel etc. Monday evening, stick on your running gear with your phone holder and run home leaving the bag in work(or in your case just bring laptop)
    Run in the next morning too and u have all your gear to shower and get changed into. Get the bus home with your bag on Tuesday eve and you just had 2 runs without having to carry a full bag on your back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Reg'stoy


    Second Dublin Marathon completed while lurking in the mentored threads here on boards. Took onboard most of the advice, just found it very difficult (still really don't know why) to run 'slowly'.
    Tried to keep the slow runs at least a minute slower than my target time, which meant trying to run at over 7min pace per K. Even did more parkruns with herself (she's a 35min'ish parkrunner) but still on my LSR's my pace would speed up. So my big thing for the next 12 months will be to learn to run slower, just saying that sounds weird. Anyway came in 10sec's below my target time of 4hrs 30 (had dreamt of around 4-15ish but knew 4-30 was about the right area), must thank my second hand garmin watch, as I only displayed my average pace and heart rate on it.

    My targets are to drop my best times by roughly 5%, so parkrun down to 22-30 from 23-46, 10k down to 47-30 from 49-20, 10M to 86ish from 90 mins, half to 2-03-40 from 2-10 (ran with a bad sinus infection, so should be very achievable) and do the Cork Marathon in 4-16/17 down from 4-29-50.
    I imagine the 5k and 10k times will be harder to drop, so going to start on specific training programs for them, even contemplating getting a garmin forerunner 45 to follow a training program, where I believe the watch will tell you to slow down/speed up and design a program based on previous runs??

    Will do my 100rd parkrun early next year so plan on upping my volunteer roles and hit 25 of them next year as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭Charliebull


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    AP is Aerobic Power on the pace chart. You should find that it is very close to your 5k race pace.

    The full recovery means just that. Recover fully between each one. This means the recoveries may get longer as you move through the set of strides. Make sure your breathing has returned to normal and if you have a HR monitor you can check that your pulse returns to the same level as prior to beginning the session before taking on the next 100m stride.

    You did strides on the Boards plan? If not....first 30m gradual pace build up to hit 5k pace for 40m before easing down gradually over the last 30m. Concentrate on being in control and keeping your running form tidy. They are not a 100m sprint.

    thank you, no I had not followed a Boards Plan (used a HH plan) so never did strides or heard off the TBH
    Couple more stupid questions

    1. at what point in the 40 min run do I introduce the strides
    2. what is threshold or where do I get that, is that the link in the notes


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    thank you, no I had not followed a Boards Plan (used a HH plan) so never did strides or heard off the TBH
    Couple more stupid questions

    1. at what point in the 40 min run do I introduce the strides
    2. what is threshold or where do I get that, is that the link in the notes

    After the 40min run is when you start them.

    Threshold is one of the paces given to you by this calculator - https://runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,535 ✭✭✭py


    This may or may not be helpful to you. It may only be helpful if you can manage to work a way you didn't have to bring your laptop home even once a week. Either way I wouldn't recommend running with a full bag of clothes and laptop so if you try below you may only have to carry laptop.

    Thanks for that. I'm tied to the laptop unfortunately. I can certainly bring in multiple days clothes in with me at the start of the week so that would alleviate some of the load. If I run on the way home it means I've no lunch in the bag either, it'd just be the 1.5Kg laptop and perhaps a few small items.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭Charliebull


    Kellygirl wrote: »
    After the 40min run is when you start them.

    Threshold is one of the paces given to you by this calculator - https://runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php

    thank you, could not get that link to work earlier


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭Comic Book Guy


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    You did strides on the Boards plan? If not....first 30m gradual pace build up to hit 5k pace for 40m before easing down gradually over the last 30m. Concentrate on being in control and keeping your running form tidy. They are not a 100m sprint.

    I've still lots to learn so! Was doing strides wrong :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭Charliebull


    Kellygirl wrote: »
    After the 40min run is when you start them.

    Threshold is one of the paces given to you by this calculator - https://runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php

    so does one enter a previous time or a target time

    and/or

    does one use a previous 5k time or half marathon time (big difference in threshold pace times)

    jayus but I have learned more about running in the last hour than in the last 45 years


  • Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭mister paul


    so does one enter a previous time or a target time

    and/or

    does one use a previous 5k time or half marathon time (big difference in threshold pace times)

    jayus but I have learned more about running in the last hour than in the last 45 years

    Always to train to current fitness, so using the most recent race is generally recommended. If the 5k and HM weren't recent, head to your nearest parkrun on Saturday morning and use the time from that as a basis.

    You can always run another 5k during training and then adjust your paces based on that, as your fitness improves.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭Charliebull


    Always to train to current fitness, so using the most recent race is generally recommended. If the 5k and HM weren't recent, head to your nearest parkrun on Saturday morning and use the time from that as a basis.

    You can always run another 5k during training and then adjust your paces based on that, as your fitness improves.

    thanks
    HM was last July
    5k was a few years ago


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,384 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    1. Do you have any goals over the next few months? What are they and why?
    Broke the 4 hour barrier this year, after missing it by 31 seconds in 2018 and swearing that I'd never run again for weeks after that. So currently on a high, and have signed up to DCM2020 already. Wife ain't happy! My next goal is to improve 10k times. Have put together a 3 run/week, 6 week plan to bring me to Christmas. Then ease off for that period and back at it in January, aiming for the Mullingar Half on 17/03

    2. What would you like to get out of this thread?
    Just some info. And be nosey about what others are doing and why. I might share my training runs and things and perhaps some of the gurus here could give feedback on the good/bad/nonsense of it all :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    so does one enter a previous time or a target time

    and/or

    does one use a previous 5k time or half marathon time (big difference in threshold pace times)

    jayus but I have learned more about running in the last hour than in the last 45 years

    Haha - you learn so much here, it’s amazing.

    As Paul said, going to a parkrun and getting a 5K time would be a good start to figure out what your current fitness levels are like. When you go to the race page of the calculator then you’ll see what time you would expect to get in each race training at the paces given on the pace page. Usually the longer races will seem quite ambitious (due to lack of endurance) but it’s a nice aim to get them all in line with each other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    frash wrote: »
    I had a quick look at the plan & it seems to be a 5 day running week.

    If you had to drop a day which one would you suggest?

    That's a tricky one. I'd see it more as a 6 day plan with an option to decrease to 5 days. Diluting it further isn't the best thing to do. I wouldn't drop the long run as that is important irrespective of what race distance you are looking at. I wouldn't drop the easy runs as without them you won't really be building enough of an aerobic base to tackle 2 sessions per week. By that rationale I could only suggest dropping one of the sessions.

    What plan did you follow for DCM and how many days a week did you run?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    That's a tricky one. I'd see it more as a 6 day plan with an option to decrease to 5 days. Diluting it further isn't the best thing to do. I wouldn't drop the long run as that is important irrespective of what race distance you are looking at. I wouldn't drop the easy runs as without them you won't really be building enough of an aerobic base to tackle 2 sessions per week. By that rationale I could only suggest dropping one of the sessions.

    What plan did you follow for DCM and how many days a week did you run?

    HHN1 and 4 days a week
    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    frash wrote: »
    HHN1 and 4 days a week
    Thanks

    Maybe one of the HH Novice plans for whatever distance you look at next would be best. The HH intermediate plans are all 5 days if I remember rightly.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    kulekat wrote: »
    Thanks :) whats connemara half like? Def planning it next year! Not the full though ;)

    Can't advise on the half. Beautiful part of the country regardless of half/full/ultra. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106834986&postcount=174


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    Wow, you have all been pretty busy! This mentoring lark is pretty easy so far, just sit back and let other folks answer all the questions :)

    I'll catch up now...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    kulekat wrote: »
    Im doing run the line as a slow walk run in a few weeks, other than that possibly the jingle bells 5k. That will tell me if all the lsr's increase speed!

    Run The Line is a wonderful course, though it might be a bit wet this year! Taking it relatively easy sounds like the right thing to do, a hard effort in the hills it is after a marathon can be pretty tough on the body.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    Treviso wrote: »
    Delighted to see this thread startup and the choice of graduate mentor. Whilst I probably won't follow the graduates plan, I do want to participate and get advice from other fellow runners in the thread. Having ran DCM19 in 3.26 I'm hoping to continue on improving my times over the various distances and eventually build up to next years DCM (already entered!)

    1. Do you have any goals over the next few months? What are they and why?

    I'm going to follow a plan that my OH did 2 years ago, which will average about 40 miles a week. It involves a lot of varied runs (including a lot of easy running) which seems interesting to me. Having followed the P&D 55 mile plan for the DCM19, I should be ok for it. Next target race is Dungarvan 10 in Feb which I hope to go under 70mins. Might also do the Togher 5k around Xmas too. I still think endurance is the main weakness I need to work on so will try to average 40 plus weekly miles for 2020.

    2. What would you like to get out of this thread?

    Well obviously to run a sub 3 hour marathon, let me know how to do that mr mentor (congrats btw) :D:D:D

    Sounds like you know what exactly what you're doing Treviso! That's a super first marathon time. A sub-3 hour marathon could well happen sooner than you'd think. Consistent miles will defeat an endurance weakness given enough time, and help you go well under 70 mins in Dungarvan. Do keep us informed how your plan is going for you on this thread.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    eabha19 wrote: »
    Singer really appreciate you taking us on. The boards plan and mentor support were invaluable for my DCM training.
    My goals over the next few months are to work on my times from 5k to half marathon. I'm not doing a marathon next year - if I do it again I'd like to do it as a faster runner with a decent hope of getting in under my 2019 time. I have signed up for Jingle Bells (and have promised to bring flap jacks for after!) and the Trim 10 mile. I'll likely also do the Mullingar Half on Paddys Day a and maybe the Great Ireland Run for my 10k.

    I run with my local club but I stepped back from it during my training for DCM and opted for the boards plan instead. I'm hoping to mix and match between the grads plan and some club sessions to keep up with the gang. I loved all the easy miles of the boards plan but my clubmates just think I've lost it running so slowly! Since DCM I've done three easy runs and a short fartlek session at the track. I'm running 10k with clubmates Sat morning which will be their version of easy rather than mine. I had a quick look at the base plan - what's a progression run?

    That's a set of good races on in your near future!

    I think it's a great thing to be able to do sessions with your club, even if they don't always match exactly what's on a plan, running with a group is good socially and for your running. I see your progression question was answered elsewhere by far more knowledgable folks than me so I won't repeat their answers :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    Doc76 wrote: »
    Thanks so much for taking us on, Singer :)

    DCM 2019 was not my first marathon but I hadn’t raced one since 2002 so it was like beginning again. I have been running off and on and participating in races just for fun since college (I’m 43 now) but really want to focus on it this year and be more consistent. I really enjoy the gym/cardio classes and other sports but this is where my passion is and I want to be more organized in my approach. I will continue to participate in other activities (body combat, body pump, and maybe yoga if I can) but running will be my priority.

    My goal this year is to improve my recent times in 5k, 10k, 10 miles, 1/2 and the full 26.2. I feel like my endurance is pretty good, I just need to work on speeding up :)

    2019 PBs were 1:01:07 for 10k, 1:44:49 for 10 miles, 2:16:54 for 1/2, and 5:05:17 for the full. I haven’t done a 5k in recent memory. Parkruns unfortunately don’t suit as my kids are involved in sports on Saturday mornings all over the place.

    I know I’m capable of quicker times, particularly for the marathon so looking to work on that.

    So far, I’ve signed up for the Jingle Bells 5k, the Trim 10 mile, and DCM 2020. I’ll likely also do the Killary Gaelforce Bray Cliff 10k in April, Women’s Mini Marathon in May, the Bay 10k and definitely the three KBC race series races.

    Right now I am following Hal Higdons post marathon recovery program, which is 5 weeks long, ending with a race which for me will be the JB 5k. After that I’ll switch to the grads plan.

    Thanks again for the thread and guidance. The novices thread was invaluable to me and helped me stick to a plan instead of my usual haphazard approach to running and races. Looking forward to the year ahead and participating in this :)

    Great stuff Doc76, you're well setup for the year already and sounds like you're on-track for a good Jingle Bells :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    frash wrote: »
    I had a quick look at the plan & it seems to be a 5 day running week.

    If you had to drop a day which one would you suggest?

    I agree with skyblue's replies, maybe look at a different plan and see if they suit. Another option could be to drop one easy run every second week, this might be more achievable!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    py wrote: »
    Two initial goals:
    1. Improve my physical durability through S&C 2-3 times a week, this has begun already - DCM broke me physically so I need to get stronger.
    2. Complete Donadea 50K within the 5 hour cutoff in February.

    I'm not sure yet. :confused:

    Woo, see you at Donadea :pac:

    What weaknesses do you have that you're trying to solve with S&C? The most specific training for running is running, and more running will improve your durability and fitness. I'm not saying don't do S&C, but also don't discount the power of lots of easy running to train the body.
    py wrote: »
    I'd be interested to get some info surrounding runmutes, it was something I wanted to do towards end of the Novice program but didn't want to change my routine prior to DCM.

    Finally, a topic that I can actually call myself semi-authoritative on :)

    I use http://commutemarker.com/ to track my commutes between Dublin City Centre and Swords on Strava, according to it I have nearly 400 done over the last 4 years! Commutes are the backbone of my running and I think they're a very handy way of getting the miles in.

    I prefer to run home. I always feel more sluggish in the morning, and I enjoy winding down after work with an easy commute. Also showering at home is usually nicer and quicker, and you don't have to have smelly clothes knocking around your desk and being dragged back home. I take them totally easy, not caring about pace so it doesn't matter about the backpack. My routine is that I leave a pair of shoes in work along with a hoody. I wear my running shoes into work in the morning then get out of them for the day. To cut down on ending up with piles of clothes in work I might wear my running top over a t-shirt if it's cold out rather than wearing other layers that just have to be brought back home. In my bag on the way home will be my laptop, trousers, coat and probably the t-shirt I wore in. I used to leave more clothes in the office but it ended up being a pain so just got into the habit of bringing everything home.

    I've never actually run both ways, but might give it a go for fun sometime soon. Most people in work just assume that I do run both ways every day!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    fatboyfin wrote: »
    Thanks Singer for taking this on - I really have to admire the commitment of the various mentors across the threads (both past and present). Fair play to you all. I am looking forward to seeing the progress.

    Goals (ish)

    I've signed up for Belfast and Dublin again next year, and will have a think about targets in the in coming months. Going to round the pb year out with a crack at 10k Seeley Cup at the end of November. I set my 10k pb in the Belfast half in September so all things being equal, it should be beatable - following a narrow 3 week plan for this, with training started on Monday. After that, I will work out targets for 2020 - I haven't got a training plan yet, but that will come in good time.

    What am I hoping to get out of the thread

    Mainly to stay motivated, encouraged and the answers to questions that I didn't know I had - that's what I have found most valuable to date. You don't know, what you don't know. I want to improve times, but in a steady progressive way and I think this thread will help.

    Thanks again to all who give up their time and energy to keep us motivated.

    Best of luck with the training for the Seeley Cup, let us know how it's going! 10k training is so easy after marathon training! ;) Seriously though you should have some good endurance banked from the marathon training, but do keep an eye on your body to make sure that you're properly recovered from DCM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    1. Do you have any goals over the next few months? What are they and why?

    I think that I can PB at every distance (1m up to marathon) again in 2020 (no pressure), so my target for the first half of the year is to focus on the shorter stuff, while also trying to up the overall mileage (a careful balance), as I think I need to build on my endurance.

    I haven't signed up for any races yet, although I was hoping for an easy 4k/8k PB at the start of December, but they're sold out. I'm on a waiting list, but not too hopeful. Will probably start the year off with Raheny 5m (?? January) and Lusk 4m (01 March).

    Beyond that, I haven't started looking for any races to target, although I'm guessing the BMS 5k and Bob Heffernan 5k will be in May, both fast races. Still need to start looking at what 10k/m & HM races I could focus on.

    2. What would you like to get out of this thread?

    I've really enjoyed "virtually" training with the other novices and hopefully we can all build on our achievements as graduates. All advice and support is appreciated.

    I have a feeling our paths may cross offline a few times in the future... ;)

    It could be worth looking at the NIA Live events to knock out a nice mile PB over the winter (or maybe even an 800) - https://www.sportirelandcampus.ie/nialive

    10k wise, there's always Dunshaughlin (which I've never done) and the underrated Drogheda 10k (which I've done twice). I approve of your general "increasing milage" idea though :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,431 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Hey, congrats B, just seeing your elevation to the grads hot seat. No better man!

    I haven’t engaged much with novice or grads threads in recent years - purely out of being occupied selfishly with my own schtick - but I hope the grads stick with you long enough for you to present the Singer “2nd marathon” plan. That may well be a sight to behold. ;) No doubt it will not be lacking in authenticity.

    (Tip to grads - start building mileage now.)

    All the best to all!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,500 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    Wow what a great intro! Absolutely love the Dr Seuss quote...a firm favourite of mine is 'Oh the things you can find, if you don't stay behind' :D

    Congratulations & best of luck taking us on :)


    1. Do you have any goals over the next few months? What are they and why?

    Ultimately i want to be a better runner. I want to understand it more, the different training sessions etc. I also want to see what my limit is, i want to see how hard i can push myself in a race & finish a race feeling like i actually couldn't have given any more if i tried! Getting some PB's in there would also be nice :D
    I am loving running for now & found something i actually am naturally good at but am not afraid of hard work so given both i would like to see what improvements i can make. I aim to follow the plan but it will be tweaked a bit by SB to accommodate a few races & try out a few different things to follow on from DCM.

    2. What would you like to get out of this thread?

    As i am a solo runner for all my training the knowledge & encouragement i got from the novice thread has been invaluable! I would like to continue learning & asking for advice when needed;)

    So far i have booked a few races(OH not allowed near the bank statements for at least a month)
    Jingle bells 5k
    Raheny 5mile
    DCM 2020

    I am also looking at either Bohermeen or Mullingar half as my target race. I really feel i have unfinished business at this distance & felt i never really grasped the race the way i would have liked to on the day.

    Looking forward to any tips & advice given & progressing on from a Novice :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭Charliebull


    went and played a 7 a side match last night with a group of friends, could not get over how much my fitness has improved since training for the DCM

    it was also a dam fine (enjoyable) alternative workout, just wondering does anyone use an alternative sporting activity as one of their sessions, its going to be a regular slot, could it be substituted for one of the slots on the base phase or is that a stupid question


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,535 ✭✭✭py


    Singer wrote: »
    Woo, see you at Donadea :pac:

    What weaknesses do you have that you're trying to solve with S&C? The most specific training for running is running, and more running will improve your durability and fitness. I'm not saying don't do S&C, but also don't discount the power of lots of easy running to train the body.

    Physio after DCM said I was weak on one set of hip flexors compared to the others so I need to strengthen that side. I've been racking my brain as to what the cause of that is and I've come up with a hypothesis that I need to discuss with physio next week.

    My hamstrings were also "unhappy" in the latter stages of DCM so I've started to strengthen them also. On top of hip/hamstring work I've been doing some calf raises (straight and bent legged with kettlebell), knee drives (with and without a band), single leg deadlift (bodyweight) and lunges (with kettlebell).

    I'm looking forward to Donadea but I've a good bit of work to do prior to it. Hoping to follow the latter stages of the Hal Higdon 50K program but I've a few test runs to do before starting it to make sure the body is going to be cooperative in getting me to the start line in good shape.
    Singer wrote: »
    Finally, a topic that I can actually call myself semi-authoritative on :)

    I use http://commutemarker.com/ to track my commutes between Dublin City Centre and Swords on Strava, according to it I have nearly 400 done over the last 4 years! Commutes are the backbone of my running and I think they're a very handy way of getting the miles in.

    I prefer to run home. I always feel more sluggish in the morning, and I enjoy winding down after work with an easy commute. Also showering at home is usually nicer and quicker, and you don't have to have smelly clothes knocking around your desk and being dragged back home. I take them totally easy, not caring about pace so it doesn't matter about the backpack. My routine is that I leave a pair of shoes in work along with a hoody. I wear my running shoes into work in the morning then get out of them for the day. To cut down on ending up with piles of clothes in work I might wear my running top over a t-shirt if it's cold out rather than wearing other layers that just have to be brought back home. In my bag on the way home will be my laptop, trousers, coat and probably the t-shirt I wore in. I used to leave more clothes in the office but it ended up being a pain so just got into the habit of bringing everything home.

    I've never actually run both ways, but might give it a go for fun sometime soon. Most people in work just assume that I do run both ways every day!

    That's all great info. I might give it a go next week and see how I get on... with my leap card close to hand. :D Another question, do you go shortest route or do you occasionally add in additional mileage? It's not something I'd do out of the gate but curious if it can be done down the line.


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