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The Sub 3 Support Thread

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  • Anyone running a 35.xx 10k and ending up with 3.29 is doing something seriously wrong with their marathon training or nutrition or something. That's way way off

    Saw a really good low 16s 5k athlete today coming home in around 3:20. Form looked good too.

    Obv could be a myriad of reasons but maybe the whole petrol/diesel thing has merit.




  • Amazing day yesterday. Everything was perfect. Really enjoyed the 1st 10 miles and kept a bit back from the 3hr pacers. Feel good at 24k so went ahead. Feet not so good at 32k but kept the pace going and managed a 2:56 time. Brilliant atmosphere but my thighs are in tatters. It was my 1st marathon so many thanks for the advice!




  • Itziger wrote: »
    Mellow, you know the answer yourself. If you train properly it's yours for the taking but the 10k time in itself means little. I know a guy who did 3.27 today in Frankfurt in his 3rd or 4th marathon. He's a 35.xx 10k lad but just doesn't put in a structured training bloc.

    Earlier in the year he went out at 2.44 pace or so on a hot day and on a hilly course here in Lux. Came home an hour north of target. I'll say one thing for him, he finishes. I don't know if he's got people advising him or whether he listens to advice or what.

    Build up the base over the first six months of the year and get specific for the last 14/16 weeks.
    Thanks, I appreciate that. I know plenty of sub 17 5k runners who struggle with breaking 3, same goes for 10k lads of my ability. But like others have said I don't know what their training was like either. I'd say it would be extremely hard to crack 3 on your debut but it comes down to your training and approach. It's something to think about




  • Wotcher all. Hope everyone is happy after yesterday. I was stewarding, for the first time, and after our stint we watched the race unfold from about 600m back from the finish. Not sure which side of 3 hours he was, but this is the only subforum I could think of where I could be sure you guys would know who I was referring to.

    We were cheering everyone in when someone from my club went "well done, Krusty!", and I saw Krusty Clown, of this parish, dressed AS Krusty Clown, pass by.

    I also spotted Duanington, FWIW. But he wasn't in costume.




  • Lazare wrote: »
    Saw a really good low 16s 5k athlete today coming home in around 3:20. Form looked good too.

    Obv could be a myriad of reasons but maybe the whole petrol/diesel thing has merit.

    .


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  • Ranleth wrote: »
    Amazing day yesterday. Everything was perfect. Really enjoyed the 1st 10 miles and kept a bit back from the 3hr pacers. Feel good at 24k so went ahead. Feet not so good at 32k but kept the pace going and managed a 2:56 time. Brilliant atmosphere but my thighs are in tatters. It was my 1st marathon so many thanks for the advice!

    Show off.. well done great time.




  • What was everyone's thoughts on the pacers ? I thought they didn't do great 2 of them were way ahead I managed to reel one in. I came across a few in unhappy runners.




  • Marty Bird wrote: »
    What was everyone's thoughts on the pacers ? I thought they didn't do great 2 of them were way ahead I managed to reel one in. I came across a few in unhappy runners.

    I was behind the last pacer until probably 18 miles, looking at the front Pacers splits though doesn't look like it was too fast




  • I was behind the last pacer until probably 18 miles, looking at the front Pacers splits though doesn't look like it was too fast

    Didn't seem like that yesterday. But thats just my experience. I settled in with the last pacer at 20 miles then went ahead of him just to be sure.




  • Marty Bird wrote: »
    Didn't seem like that yesterday. But thats just my experience. I settled in with the last pacer at 20 miles then went ahead of him just to be sure.

    1st was front 3hr pacer 2nd is last (I think not 100% sure)


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  • Marty Bird wrote: »
    What was everyone's thoughts on the pacers ? I thought they didn't do great 2 of them were way ahead I managed to reel one in. I came across a few in unhappy runners.

    The pacers typically run within 60-90 secs of the time, but looking at the Strava of 1 of the 3 hour pacers, I see he ran a 6.30 / 6.25 / 6.31 upto the 10 mile mark - that does seem fast.

    Last 6 miles was on ave a tad over 3 hour pace.

    Edit: Sorry - just seen the above post with splits.




  • The pacers typically run within 60-90 secs of the time, but looking at the Strava of 1 of the 3 hour pacers, I see he ran a 6.30 / 6.25 / 6.31 upto the 10 mile mark - that does seem fast.

    Last 6 miles was on ave a tad over 3 hour pace.

    Edit: Sorry - just seen the above post with splits.

    Maybe with was just me they seemed to be just that little faster and a few others said it to me. I ending up just pacing off my watch. Which ended up well.




  • 1st was front 3hr pacer 2nd is last (I think not 100% sure)

    Those are the front 2.
    There was another (3rd) 3 hour pacer who did a good job. He was 2 minutes behind the lead pacer at 40k but still finished 40 seconds under.




  • Those are the front 2.
    There was another (3rd) 3 hour pacer who did a good job. He was 2 minutes behind the lead pacer at 40k but still finished 40 seconds under.

    Apologies so, I was with the 3rd




  • Thanks to all the runners here for the advice and support. race went well. Did it in 2.56 and felt good but some hamstring cramps in last few miles which were a worry as energy wise I felt like pushing on.

    We were not sticking with pacers. The front pacers appeared to us to be all over the shop from what we could gather. They flew past us up laurence hill and we had banked a good minute or more of a cushion at that stage. They were a good couple of hundred yards ahead of me at around mile 21/21. I passed the first 3 hour pacer around 3 miles to go so he was well ahead of the 3 hour. Even though I knew I was well on track, the sight of the 3 hour balloon ahead of me and getting further away was playing on my mind a bit but I said ignore it.

    I imagine that pace might have wrecked some runners who were in borderline 3 hour shape.

    Hope all went well for you guys anyway.




  • Tommy Max wrote: »
    Thanks to all the runners here for the advice and support. race went well. Did it in 2.56 and felt good but some hamstring cramps in last few miles which were a worry as energy wise I felt like pushing on.

    We were not sticking with pacers. The front pacers appeared to us to be all over the shop from what we could gather. They flew past us up laurence hill and we had banked a good minute or more of a cushion at that stage. They were a good couple of hundred yards ahead of me at around mile 21/21. I passed the first 3 hour pacer around 3 miles to go so he was well ahead of the 3 hour. Even though I knew I was well on track, the sight of the 3 hour balloon ahead of me and getting further away was playing on my mind a bit but I said ignore it.

    I imagine that pace might have wrecked some runners who were in borderline 3 hour shape.

    Hope all went well for you guys anyway.

    Yep, I had my own moment of doubt due to that pacer too :o I'd love to know if he was telling people as they went along that his plan was to bank so much time, you'd hope so anyway.




  • healy1835 wrote: »
    Yep, I had my own moment of doubt due to that pacer too :o I'd love to know if he was telling people as they went along that his plan was to bank so much time, you'd hope so anyway.
    I decided during mile 2,to not try and stay with them,glanced at the watch it was showing 6:30ish.
    Bye 10K they were easily a half mile up ahead of me.I would have ended up walking if I ploughed on with them.
    Got the sub 3 again.Happy enough,training was all over the shop.
    10K 43:14
    Halfway 1:30:03
    40K 2:50:41
    26.40 2:59:31
    Had to do a 6:29 last mile,and 5:52 pace for last bit,to be certain of the sub 3




  • Congrats to anyone that clocked the big sub 3 on Sunday. In the spirit of the thread, would you mind giving a summary of your training over the last 12 weeks or so...what you found worked and what you might change?




  • Those are the front 2.
    There was another (3rd) 3 hour pacer who did a good job. He was 2 minutes behind the lead pacer at 40k but still finished 40 seconds under.

    I was following the first pacer and lost him turning on to merrion road, my last 2 miles were 7.14 and 7.05 and I still passed him out again just after the RDS so he must have been on for sub 2.57 until the last mile or so. That said it was obvious enough from castleknock that he would be going faster.




  • Cona wrote: »
    Congrats to anyone that clocked the big sub 3 on Sunday. In the spirit of the thread, would you mind giving a summary of your training over the last 12 weeks or so...what you found worked and what you might change?

    I started my training on the for this on tuesday 3rd Sept I used the P&D plan and I used the last 8 weeks of the 88km to 113km per week plan. The first week of the plan with the increased mileage really knocked me and my legs were wrecked from it so I took a week off.

    When I came back I adjusted some of the sessions by a couple of kms shorter after another 2 weeks into the plan legs felt so much better I continued on with all the distances on the plan right up to race day.

    Now I had been training for triathlons already throughout the year so I would have built up the endurance over the year.

    The marathon training was far from ideal I would have loved another 4 weeks to be more confident going into the race that I could hit the numbers. As it out turns it went well on the day and I was delighted to get it.

    I found the days when you would have had VO2 max session it would be 14km with 6x600 meters at 5k race pace. I found these sessions were very beneficial to me if that makes sense.


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  • What are the next Irish Marathons? I missed out on sub-3 this time around, but I feel I'm close.




  • Am I right in saying only less than 18k actually ran it after?? The live results show less than 18k? Is that correct.




  • Tommy Max wrote: »
    Am I right in saying only less than 18k actually ran it after?? The live results show less than 18k? Is that correct.

    Yeah, also accounting for anyone who started but didn't finish




  • What are the next Irish Marathons? I missed out on sub-3 this time around, but I feel I'm close.

    I think Clonakilty and the Gap of Dunloe are the last big ones of the year but they both have more height gain than Dublin.

    You also have the small events from the Marathon Club Ireland and the East of Ireland groups.




  • Kander wrote: »
    I think Clonakilty and the Gap of Dunloe are the last big ones of the year but they both have more height gain than Dublin.

    You also have the small events from the Marathon Club Ireland and the East of Ireland groups.

    If I were you I’d taje a fortnight out and recover then build gradually over winter to take on a programme and race in spring




  • What is the story with priority booking. do you pay €90 straight away or €15?

    Jaysis its a long time to be thinking ahead to another one.




  • Tommy Max wrote: »
    What is the story with priority booking. do you pay €90 straight away or €15?

    Jaysis its a long time to be thinking ahead to another one.

    No option to pay €15, it's €93 straight up.




  • Now the dust has settled on Dublin and i have my entry for 2020, I am looking to begin my training for a sub 3.
    My last 2 marathons have been 3.18 in 2018 and 3.19 in 2019. I was on track for a 3.14 this year but was getting pain/Muscle strain in my Diaphragm for last 4 miles and had to slow down, Legs and everything were feeling good up to that point.
    So i am looking for some advice on how i should approach a 12 month training?
    I have some other races planned for Feb/March and might look at the marathon in cork.
    For my past 3 marathons i have used the P&D 18 Week 55 mile plan, But i have been looking at the 80/20 Plan since dublin to get my head around it.




  • Cona wrote: »
    Congrats to anyone that clocked the big sub 3 on Sunday. In the spirit of the thread, would you mind giving a summary of your training over the last 12 weeks or so...what you found worked and what you might change?

    I followed this training plan and it worked for me.

    https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/marathon/a760127/rws-ultimate-marathon-schedule-sub-300/

    Prior to starting the training I'd ran a sub 1hr 25 half so I knew it was achievable if I followed the plan and avoided injury.

    The only change I made was that for one of the last long runs I did some marathon paced miles. That gave me some confidence that I was comfortable running at that pace with some miles in my legs.
    So for my 32k slow run I did 11k @ 4:40, 10k @ 4:15 and 11k @ 4:40.

    On the day I made an effort to not go off too fast. I started just behind the 3hr pacers and passed them at 24k. Definitely the 3rd pacer ran it almost perfectly, very consistent splits and got people home a fraction under 3hrs. Brilliant work.


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  • boydkev wrote: »
    Now the dust has settled on Dublin and i have my entry for 2020, I am looking to begin my training for a sub 3.
    My last 2 marathons have been 3.18 in 2018 and 3.19 in 2019. I was on track for a 3.14 this year but was getting pain/Muscle strain in my Diaphragm for last 4 miles and had to slow down, Legs and everything were feeling good up to that point.
    So i am looking for some advice on how i should approach a 12 month training?
    I have some other races planned for Feb/March and might look at the marathon in cork.
    For my past 3 marathons i have used the P&D 18 Week 55 mile plan, But i have been looking at the 80/20 Plan since dublin to get my head around it.

    Similar setup to yourself BoydKev. Had ran a 3.18 in my first Marathon, followed by a 3.13 at DCM last year. Copped on a bit with the training this year and managed a 2.51 at DCM.

    I followed the P&D 18 week (up to 55miles) plan for each of the last two attempts. Still found it to be excellent and would probably use it again for next year. Main difference for me this year was just consistency in training over longer period. Following the '18 DCM I took a couple of weeks off but then just started tapping away at a few sessions (3 to 4) per week over the winter to keep the fitness base, max mileage per week of c. 40-50k. For my first two attempts, I'd done very little over the winter and then just gone headlong into a plan about 18 weeks out from the event. Unsurprisingly, that led to minor injuries during that period pre race and I felt as though I'd never arrived at the start line in top condition. This better consistency over a longer period also meant I had c. 1,000km more in the legs for the 10month period ahead of DCM - as well as the obvious stamina benefits, it also put me in a much stronger psychological space that I was going to make a big improvement year-on-year and that a sub-3 was a realistic goal.

    Other change I made this year to help with the consistency in mileage was to do nearly all my midweek runs before work. Once I got into the routine of a 5.30/6.00 start, I found it mentally easier to get the session done first thing in the morning and not be subject to the usual stresses of trying to get out of work later in the day at a reasonable hour or managing the practicalities of fitting in an evening run around shopping/cooking/eating dinner etc!

    Good luck with it all and enjoy the winter sessions!


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