ESB eCars pricing introduction

DrPhilG · 23-10-2019 02:35PM

zg3409 wrote: »

The worry I have is the fees will be in before esb have installed any double fast charging pairs, without even planning applications started

*ahem

New services on the M9.

Zenith74 · 23-10-2019 02:36PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Nobody subsidises me for boiling the kettle, for the gas I burn in my well maintained boiler or the diesel I put in my car, why should other ESB consumers subsidise fuelling of other people's private transport

That's not quite true now, the true costs of burning fossil fuels are only starting to emerge in recent years and these costs are essentially paid for by the state - aka subsidised. 1500-2000 pre-mature deaths in Ireland directly caused by air pollution, imagine the load and cost that puts on the healthcare system. Then think of all the millions/billions that are now being pumped into researching and implementing renewable systems trying to replace the damage done by burning fossil fuels. The subsidy is there, you just don't see it reflected in the public accounts.

Mickeroo · 23-10-2019 02:36PM

DrPhilG wrote: »

*ahem

Where's that?

Zenith74 · 23-10-2019 02:37PM

DrPhilG wrote: »

*ahem

Cool, where's this? Those look like the existing 50kW chargers, or are they faster?

Larbre34 · 23-10-2019 02:38PM

Zenith74 wrote: »

That's not quite true now, the true costs of burning fossil fuels are only starting to emerge in recent years and these costs are essentially paid for by the state - aka subsidised. 1500-2000 pre-mature deaths in Ireland directly caused by air pollution, imagine the load and cost that puts on the healthcare system. Then think of all the millions/billions that are now being pumped into researching and implementing renewable systems trying to replace the damage done by burning fossil fuels. The subsidy is there, you just don't see it reflected in the public accounts.

Thats a subsidy spread across all mains customers. Subsidising private EVs is not justifiable.

DrPhilG · 23-10-2019 02:38PM

ELM327 wrote: »

All 3

Got a link? Pretty sure I read that it only applies to 50kw fast chargers.

Now technically the fast AC side of a triple head is "part of" a 50kw rapid.

But it is also technically only a 43kw charger.

KCross · 23-10-2019 02:40PM

DrPhilG wrote: »

*ahem

New services on the M9.

Looks like the paper tagged to the pole says they will be live on Friday... is that this Friday or a sign thats sitting there for a few weeks already?!

DrPhilG · 23-10-2019 02:41PM

daheff wrote: »

Ah this is BS. Not everybody can charge at the same rate. So you are penalising people with slower charger (older EVs or phev cars) vs people with newer higher spec cars.

We'll never get mass adoption with that mentality

I totally understand, I had a 24kwh Leaf for 3+ years and relied heavily on public charging.

But at the end of the day we can't keep everyone back because of the slower cars. Why should others have to wait over an hour to charge, just because your car is slow?

That's like restricting the national speed limit to 30km because some folk still have a horse and cart.

Its tough, but there has to be a reasonable time set for what it fair for others to wait and I think 45 minutes fits the bill. I very rarely stayed longer than that when I had the 24kwh and if I did its because I couldn't rely on the next charger on my route being available.

KCross · 23-10-2019 02:45PM

Zenith74 wrote: »

Cool, where's this? Those look like the existing 50kW chargers, or are they faster?

eCars seem to call <50kW chargers "Fast Charge points" and anything above that they call "High Power chargers" and "ultra high power" and these have "Fast charge point" written on them so I'd guess they are 50kW max.

Interesting that they are still triple heads. I thought they might have abandoned AC43 for any new chargers. CHAdeMO is going to be fully supported for a while yet if they are still supporting AC43.

liamog · 23-10-2019 02:49PM

Given the amount of damage that appears to be happening on FastAC connectors I'm surprised they didn't spec them with a 22kW socket instead.

innrain · 23-10-2019 02:50PM

DrPhilG wrote: »

Got a link? Pretty sure I read that it only applies to 50kw fast chargers.

Now technically the fast AC side of a triple head is "part of" a 50kw rapid.

But it is also technically only a 43kw charger.

In the email ESB sent to ecars customers it says

"Pricing will be introduced first for existing fast (43 - 50kW) chargers in Ireland from 18th November followed by the introduction of pricing for high power chargers (150kW) once the first ones are installed."

43 seems to be included.

23-10-2019 02:51PM

Kramer wrote: »

I think the days of buying an EV, purely for savings, are coming to an end.
ICE Kona (scrappage) - €20k
Electric Kona - €38k

It is said before, the difference buys a lot of deisel, it would buy me 8 years worth, and that without including the cost for electricity for the battery. Probably be 20 years before the actual savings were kicked in.

KCross · 23-10-2019 02:52PM

Its also good they put the swings next to them. Something for EV drivers to do while waiting!

And good to see clearly marked bays and signs. They've even made them extra wide. Slow steps in the right direction!

Zenith74 · 23-10-2019 02:55PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thats a subsidy spread across all mains customers. Subsidising private EVs is not justifiable.

I disagree. EVs are at a disadvantage because a diesel/petrol car can cause pollution and not pay the price, so a subsidy levels the playing field. Note that the EV subsidies are available to all who choose to use an EV, in the same way that the ICE pollution subsidy is available to those who choose to use an ICE.

rolion · 23-10-2019 03:07PM

Orebro wrote: »

PHEVs are going to be like Unicorns on FCPs from the end of Nov, thankfully!

KCross wrote: »

An older EV (e.g. Leaf) only spends 30mins on the rapid anyway to get to 80% and its a per kWh charge so you pay for what you get so I dont see the disadvantage to older cars? If it was time based it would disadvantage older cars.

Newer cars will actually have more to complain about as they need longer than the 45mins with their larger batteries.

As for PHEV's.... they shouldnt be on the rapids in the first place, imo, so thats a good thing.

Arrogant attitude...

An Outlander can charge on FCP at 22Kw.
A battery of 10Kwh capacity will be full in 30 minutes,well below the 45 minutes "limit".
After charged, PHEV will drive 40km on clean non poluted engine in busy city traffic.

What's your issue here !??

JPA · 23-10-2019 03:17PM

DrPhilG wrote: »

*ahem

[/IMG]

New services on the M9.

Where on the M9 is this?

ELM327 · 23-10-2019 03:20PM

rolion wrote: »

Arrogant attitude...

An Outlander can charge on FCP at 22Kw.
A battery of 10Kwh capacity will be full in 30 minutes,well below the 45 minutes "limit".
After charged, PHEV will drive 40km on clean non poluted engine in busy city traffic.

What's your issue here !??

Issues are with phevs using the AC at 3 or 7 kW.
Not the outlander which DC charges at 17kW

ELM327 · 23-10-2019 03:20PM

JPA wrote: »

Where on the M9 is this?

Kilcullen
It's not on Zap Map yet though

innrain · 23-10-2019 03:23PM

It is on plugshare
https://www.plugshare.com/location/208448

unkel · 23-10-2019 03:23PM

knipex wrote: »

Go back and look at the sourced I gave for real world mileage.

All 5 ish year old cars..

Man, I was only trying to give a rough costs per km, because somebody asked for it. What is your problem here? Ok we can argue about the values I came up with. I gave a new set of values, based on newer more frugal cars. You not happy with those either?

knipex wrote: »

Your figures for EV costs don't add up either. Sources and math in my original post.

I'll go by my own EV, a family size car driven hard. 5 people in my family. I have the car just over 2.5 years and just under 40k km

Over that period I have averaged about 13kWh/100km. At the moment I pay about 8c/kWh. That used to be less. And of course I have had plenty of free charging. But completely disregarding any free charging and any cheaper rates in the past, at present I pay for 100km, 13kWh * 8c = €1.04

So pretty much bang on 1c/kWh

drunkmonkey · 23-10-2019 03:26PM

Zenith74 wrote: »

I disagree. EVs are at a disadvantage because a diesel/petrol car can cause pollution and not pay the price, so a subsidy levels the playing field. Note that the EV subsidies are available to all who choose to use an EV, in the same way that the ICE pollution subsidy is available to those who choose to use an ICE.

Ah now come on if you look to cradle to the grave costs in money and to the environment an EV doesn't hold much advantage over a new ICE car.
Granted it's got somewhat lower running costs on day to day driving but those are being phased out. If there's subsidies for new EV's there should be some for new Mercedes diesels.

unkel · 23-10-2019 03:27PM

In fairness Kilcullen is probably the most needed location for fast chargers. Well done to the ESB. Only two of them and they are more 2009 than 2019 with only 50kW, but it's a start.

Mike9832 · 23-10-2019 03:29PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is said before, the difference buys a lot of deisel, it would buy me 8 years worth, and that without including the cost for electricity for the battery. Probably be 20 years before the actual savings were kicked in.

Thats after €10,000 subsidy and vrt rebate

Kona should be €48,000

How in the hell are they gonna produce that €48,000 car for €20,000 to reach parity in the years to come?

Its impossible

Cars as we know them are going to get expensive, very expensive and they'll be much inferior like for like

In years to come without grants/subsidies

People used to driving cross country can either buy a €50,000 BMW than can do 500km

Or buy something for €25,000 that can do 200km and stop every 2 hours for 30mins paying 33c a kWh for the pleasure

All for the climate

liamog · 23-10-2019 03:30PM

rolion wrote: »

Arrogant attitude...

An Outlander can charge on FCP at 22Kw.
A battery of 10Kwh capacity will be full in 30 minutes,well below the 45 minutes "limit".
After charged, PHEV will drive 40km on clean non poluted engine in busy city traffic.

What's your issue here !??

Honest question, would you really use a public rapid at a cost of €3.50 for 40km plus 30mins of your time?

ELM327 · 23-10-2019 03:31PM

Mike9832 wrote: »

Thats after €10,000 subsidy and vrt rebate

Kona should be €48,000

How in the hell are they gonna produce that €48,000 car for €20,000 to reach parity in the years to come?

Its impossible

Cars as we know them are going to get expensive, very expensive and they'll be much inferior like for like

In years to come without grants/subsidies

People used to driving cross country can either buy a €50,000 BMW than can do 500km

Or buy something for €25,000 that can do 200km and stop every 2 hours for 30mins paying 33c a kWh for the pleasure

All for the climate

Or a Tesla.

rolion · 23-10-2019 03:34PM

liamog wrote: »

Honest question, would you really use a public rapid at a cost of €3.50 for 40km plus 30mins of your time?

Short answer,yes,if i had the opportunity to use it,between jobs or meetings.
I'm home now, having an hour lunch and coffee (free of delli's rip off charge) and i plugged in the charging cable.

It costs me €10,50 per 100Km on petrol engine.
Thats €1,50 each 10Km on ice.
Costs me €1.00 for 40Km on PureEV mode.

Pure EV mode,no noise,no noxes.
Be good.

kennethsmyth · 23-10-2019 03:34PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Ah now come on if you look to cradle to the grave costs in money and to the environment an EV doesn't hold much advantage over a new ICE car.
Granted it's got somewhat lower running costs on day to day driving but those are being phased out. If there's subsidies for new EV's there should be some for new Mercedes diesels.

You realise when those batteries in the car are no longer viable for it there are many ways in which it can continue on in life.

1. Battery refurbished and car continues on.
2. Battery refurbished and used in home pv/power.
3. Sections of usable battery used elsewhere and remainder recycled.

From above the car will probably be falling apart before its use is no longer viable for someone (a car with only a 50km range is still very usable to someone as a local car).

Mike9832 · 23-10-2019 03:35PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Or a Tesla.

True

innrain · 23-10-2019 03:39PM

rolion wrote: »

Short answer,yes,if i had the opportunity to use it,between jobs or meetings.
I'm home now, having an hour lunch and coffee (free of delli's rip off charge) and i plugged in the charging cable.

It costs me €10,50 per 100Km on petrol engine.
Thats €1,50 each 10Km on ice.
Costs me €1.00 for 40Km on PureEV mode.

Pure EV mode,no noise,no noxes.
Be good.

Yes but a BMW plugged in for 3 hours drawing 3 kW at FCP Templeville (which has load balancing limiting the DC at 24 kW) will be gone.

Mike9832 · 23-10-2019 03:41PM

unkel wrote: »

Man, I was only trying to give a rough costs per km, because somebody asked for it. What is your problem here? Ok we can argue about the values I came up with. I gave a new set of values, based on newer more frugal cars. You not happy with those either?

I'll go by my own EV, a family size car driven hard. 5 people in my family. I have the car just over 2.5 years and just under 40k km

Over that period I have averaged about 13kWh/100km. At the moment I pay about 8c/kWh. That used to be less. And of course I have had plenty of free charging. But completely disregarding any free charging and any cheaper rates in the past, at present I pay for 100km, 13kWh * 8c = €1.04

So pretty much bang on 1c/kWh

Driven hard at 13kWh/100km

Come on lol ðŸ˜‚

Driven hard your car do over 200km?

Better than the bloody wlpt range

Most small cars are doing 20kWh/100km on the motorway

Thats €6.60 for 100km

Big cars like Audi É tron etc are doing 30kWh +

Thats €9.90 for 100km

The 3l 300bhp diesel Audi Q7 will match that €9.90 for 100km easy and no need stop and charge every 2 hours

Thats not an improvement

ESB eCars pricing introduction

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