Calling out fellow cyclists for illegal or dangerous behavior

magicbastarder · 21-10-2019 08:32AM

it's also worth noting that (AFAIK) there's no allowance in irish law for postal delivery staff to be able to cycle on the footpath.
i do know from talking to a couple of gardai (one of whom is a cyclist) that they regard the likes of policing these laws to be a waste of time.

LeChienMefiant · 21-10-2019 09:05AM

magicbastarder wrote: »

i do know from talking to a couple of gardai (one of whom is a cyclist) that they regard the likes of policing these laws to be a waste of time.

It might distract them from the massive burden of ignoring all the other laws they couldn't be bothered policing.

EDIT: It's so nice to cycle up through Clonskeagh in the morning and see all of the cargo bikes heading into town. If that traffic is your only alternative then I'm sure it makes a very compelling option. Even public transport is stuck as there is no bus lanes until Ranelagh.

Tenzor07 · 21-10-2019 09:37AM

Regarding U/A children cycling on footpaths, if you go to some housing estates around the city and country you'll find plenty of them on motorbike scramblers racing around on footpaths and green areas, not to mention doing wheelies on the main road each and every day of the week...
I'd rather see the Gardai pursue those than chase the postman delivering his letters by cycling on the footpath....

Seth Brundle · 21-10-2019 09:43AM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I'd rather see the Gardai pursue those than chase the postman delivering his letters by cycling on the footpath....

1. the gardai need to be told that kids are tearing around on mini-motos or whatever. I recall a ~13YO kid from a neighbouring estate used to come onto the green area in our estate on a small quad bike. Often he would have a passenger on it and usually one or both of them would have no helmet. I used to always ring the gardai about it and hey would always promptly send a car over to deal with it.
However, ultimately it should be the parents responsibility - a) not to buy them and b) that if they do buy one, the kid isn't using them without adult supervision.
Let's not automatically blame the gardai because some people make crap parents!
2. how many postmen are you aware of that have been chased by the gardai for riding their bike on the path?

Tenzor07 · 21-10-2019 09:52AM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

1. the gardai need to be told that kids are tearing around on mini-motos or whatever. I recall a ~13YO kid from a neighbouring estate used to come onto the green area in our estate on a small quad bike. Often he would have a passenger on it and usually one or both of them would have no helmet. I used to always ring the gardai about it and hey would always promptly send a car over to deal with it.
However, ultimately it should be the parents responsibility - a) not to buy them and b) that if they do buy one, the kid isn't using them without adult supervision.
Let's not automatically blame the gardai because some people make crap parents!

The Gardai do know that these kids are tearing around estates on scramblers, but from the sounds of it you must live in a very nice estate! And after all it is the Gardai's duty to ensure public safety and the law is upheld.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

2. how many postmen are you aware of that have been chased by the gardai for riding their bike on the path?

You've missed the point entirely! I was responding to the statement made by a previous poster in relation to Gardai enforcing all the applicable laws so read back before responding?

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's also worth noting that (AFAIK) there's no allowance in irish law for postal delivery staff to be able to cycle on the footpath.
i do know from talking to a couple of gardai (one of whom is a cyclist) that they regard the likes of policing these laws to be a waste of time.

PostWoke · 21-10-2019 09:58AM

Suppose you can mention it but if they get uppity about it, let natural selection take its' course.

cdaly_ · 21-10-2019 10:17AM

Captain Slow IRL wrote: »

By that logic, I should be able to drive my car on the footpath provided I do it slowly.

It's commonly done on Griffith Ave where there's a very wide footpath behind a row of trees. I've seen drivers use this to bypass traffic queues to get from their houses to the traffic light 100m down the road...

LeChienMefiant · 21-10-2019 10:21AM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The Gardai do know that these kids are tearing around estates on scramblers, but from the sounds of it you must live in a very nice estate! And after all it is the Gardai's duty to ensure public safety and the law is upheld.

Gardai have been told to not engage scramblers because it they chase them and an accident happens they become responsible.

Tenzor07 · 21-10-2019 10:52AM

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Gardai have been told to not engage scramblers because it they chase them and an accident happens they become responsible.

Some tactical contact with Gardai vehicles and these scramblers may solve this issue like they have in parts of the UK..

Kaisr Sose · 21-10-2019 11:40AM

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Gardai have been told to not engage scramblers because it they chase them and an accident happens they become responsible.

Next we will have the GRA saying it is dangerous for their members to tackle crime in case they or the public get hurt. Anything to avoid having effective policing the minor stuff.

LeChienMefiant · 21-10-2019 11:41AM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Some tactical contact with Gardai vehicles and these scramblers may solve this issue like they have in parts of the UK..

You're talking about children TBF.

Tenzor07 · 21-10-2019 11:56AM

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

You're talking about children TBF.

Not all are under the legal age of criminal responsibility, and most are big enough to cause serious injury to the public and property damage also, i'm sure the Gardai know how to engage tactically with them, so no need to get all dramatic about it...

magicbastarder · 21-10-2019 12:15PM

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Next we will have the GRA saying it is dangerous for their members to tackle crime in case they or the public get hurt. Anything to avoid having effective policing the minor stuff.

it's relatively common practice - AFAIK - for police forces to not engage in high speed car chases due to the danger it can expose innocent bystanders too. i'm not sure what protocols the gardai have in relation to this, though.

Ray Palmer · 21-10-2019 12:21PM

ted1 wrote: »

.. he got distracted by your shouting and took his eye if the road to talk to you.

He was cycling straight into the path of cars and wasn't paying attention to the traffic. It was a t junction and the lights had gone green for the traffic to join the road..he didn't know the junction

AndrewJRenko · 21-10-2019 02:56PM

cdaly_ wrote: »

It's commonly done on Griffith Ave where there's a very wide footpath behind a row of trees. I've seen drivers use this to bypass traffic queues to get from their houses to the traffic light 100m down the road...

It's also commonly done by all the cars, vans and trucks we see parked on pavements all the time, assuming that they haven't been dropped in by helicopter.

RobbieMD · 21-10-2019 03:00PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The Gardai do know that these kids are tearing around estates on scramblers, but from the sounds of it you must live in a very nice estate! And after all it is the Gardai's duty to ensure public safety and the law is upheld.

You've missed the point entirely! I was responding to the statement made by a previous poster in relation to Gardai enforcing all the applicable laws so read back before responding?

But the public’s safety is at more risk with Gardai pursuing lads on scramblers. They don’t just pull over and stop. They’ll take risks that are unacceptable. There is no Garda policy on pursuing scramblers or even cars for that matter.

There are very few garda drivers trained to do tactical stops and they’re ERU members generally stopping gunmen heading to shoot someone. Maybe in the next 20yrs Ireland will follow the MET and develop a policy.

As it stands any Garda member who rams a scrambler can expect to be prosecuted for dangerous driving causing serious bodily harm. The blue lights and sirens offer zero protection. I genuinely don’t know why any Garda uses lights and sirens in any circumstance, except when stationary at a traffic collision maybe.

What a lot of people don’t appreciate is all our emergency services drive emergency services vehicles on their own private licence. The recent Garda prosecuted in Clondalkin for dangerous driving causing death should’ve been the wake up call for all Gardai to stop driving on response.

LeChienMefiant · 21-10-2019 03:03PM

RobbieMD wrote: »

There are very few garda drivers trained to do tactical stops and they’re ERU members generally stopping gunmen heading to shoot someone. Maybe in the next 20yrs Ireland will follow the MET and develop a policy.

Do Gardai have stinger devices?

RobbieMD · 21-10-2019 03:25PM

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Do Gardai have stinger devices?

Yeah but not allowed for scramblers or motorcycles.

Effects · 21-10-2019 03:31PM

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Do Gardai have stinger devices?

Even when they carry them, they still need special permission from their superior before they can use them.

Kaisr Sose · 21-10-2019 04:55PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's relatively common practice - AFAIK - for police forces to not engage in high speed car chases due to the danger it can expose innocent bystanders too. i'm not sure what protocols the gardai have in relation to this, though.

I had a feeling someone would come back with that and it's very valid. I mean as a general reason for not tackling even the minor stuff for fear they may get injured. On the front line, risk is part of the job.

In the UK they have had to adopt tactical contact to thwart thefts using mopeds and also other vehicle intercepts. Moped enabled theft has since halved. They seem way ahead in terms of tactical response in the UK. Their scale helps but it is more than that. Technology wise they are way ahead. Meanwhile, technology or progressive solutions and laws do not seem to work effectively here....

Anus Von Skidmark · 21-10-2019 05:37PM

I for one would support enshrining in law the right of the Gardaí to use their cars to ram scrambler-mounted scrotes, and to hell with whatever might happen to said scrotes.

Seth Brundle · 21-10-2019 05:50PM

Anus Von Skidmark wrote: »

I for one would support enshrining in law the right of the Gardaí to use their cars to ram scrambler-mounted scrotes, and to hell with whatever might happen to said scrotes.

...and the innocent pedestrian pushing a pram is just acceptable collateral damage?

eeeee · 21-10-2019 05:58PM

MOD NOTE: Some Off topic posts deleted.
Back on topic now please, any further OT posts will be deleted

Moflojo · 21-10-2019 06:23PM

RobbieMD wrote: »

What a lot of people don’t appreciate is all our emergency services drive emergency services vehicles on their own private licence. The recent Garda prosecuted in Clondalkin for dangerous driving causing death should’ve been the wake up call for all Gardai to stop driving on response.

Recent Guardian long read about the dangers of police chases, and how the risks vastly outweigh the rewards:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/jul/02/deaths-uk-police-pursuits-chases

AndrewJRenko · 21-10-2019 07:15PM

RobbieMD wrote: »

As it stands any Garda member who rams a scrambler can expect to be prosecuted for dangerous driving causing serious bodily harm. The blue lights and sirens offer zero protection. I genuinely don’t know why any Garda uses lights and sirens in any circumstance, except when stationary at a traffic collision maybe.

What a lot of people don’t appreciate is all our emergency services drive emergency services vehicles on their own private licence. The recent Garda prosecuted in Clondalkin for dangerous driving causing death should’ve been the wake up call for all Gardai to stop driving on response.

They have the legal protection of the exemption from the Road Traffic Acts 'where necessary for the performance of duties', right?

RobbieMD · 21-10-2019 07:29PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They have the legal protection of the exemption from the Road Traffic Acts 'where necessary for the performance of duties', right?

That section of the road traffic act that exempts in the course of their duties also contains caveats. They can still be prosecuted for sections 51(a) 52 and 53. They’re the offences of driving without reasonable consideration, careless driving and dangerous driving. And of course for drunken driving and drunk in charge.
That garda convicted earlier this year was trained to drive with lights and sirens. He was still prosecuted and convicted of dangerous driving causing death. He was going at 56kmph to a confirmed robbery of a service station if my memory is correct.

tdf7187 · 21-10-2019 07:31PM

Passed a woman (while cycling) cycling with no lights and not even one of those yellow jackets a few minutes ago. Must admit was tempted to shout "get some lights" at her.

Time · 21-10-2019 07:43PM

tdf7187 wrote: »

Passed a woman (while cycling) cycling with no lights and not even one of those yellow jackets a few minutes ago. Must admit was tempted to shout "get some lights" at her.

I nearly hit someone at the junction of south circular road and dolphins barn a while back. I was heading was east on SCR turning left onto Dolphins barn which is a yield. Anyway i stopped as there was a few cars coming from the opposite way on SCR who had right of way.
As i pulled out i came within a few inches of knocking a guy down. He had no lights, just a hi-vis, which of course only works when light shines on it directly, and where he had been was the darkest part in between street lights, he'd also broken the red light so i hadn't expected him to be there either. Anyway i braked hard and he stopped and when i pointed out that he was invisible from the side he told me to f**k off.

So to anyone here who thinks they don't need lights, and that hi-vis alone is sufficient please think again.

AndrewJRenko · 21-10-2019 08:20PM

tdf7187 wrote: »

Passed a woman (while cycling) cycling with no lights and not even one of those yellow jackets a few minutes ago. Must admit was tempted to shout "get some lights" at her.

Are you often tempted to shout at drivers who have their phones in their hand while driving?

magicbastarder · 21-10-2019 09:13PM

i suspect most people are at some point.

Calling out fellow cyclists for illegal or dangerous behavior

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