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Calling out fellow cyclists for illegal or dangerous behavior

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12357…15

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    #122
    jjpep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 658 ✭✭✭jjpep


    beauf wrote: »
    I used to point out to some cyclists that they were invisible at night, I just got abuse. So I no longer bother.

    Sounds like that movie with William macey from years ago. One of the characters had a super power, where if you didn't look at him, he was invisible.


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    #123
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    marcos_94 wrote: »
    What a sad woman. Even her other instagrams of parked cars and the likes. Am I right in saying its not illegal to cycle on the path?
    It is illegal, the confusion seems to come from those on the spot fines, cycling on the footpath was considered to be one but dropped and I have heard and read of several people thinking it was therefore legal. There is also no age limit here, a toddler out on christmas day on their pink bike with stabilizers on an empty footpath going at slower than walking pace is illegal and I wonder if that woman would be videoing them.
    Puggy wrote: »
    Surely the rules of the road apply to all road users. A red light is a red light, doesn’t matter if I’m driving my car or on my bicycle. I choose to always stop at red lights.
    You would be in a minority so. I cannot think of a single person I know who is such a stickler for the law that they would not say cross on a pedestrian red light on a completely empty road, no car or anybody in sight at all, able to see for half a mile either way. RSA call pedestrians and cyclists the most vulnerable roadusers, I always find it amusing when people say cyclists are the worst for breaking reds -in complete denial about pedestrians since they are "one of us".

    Thankfully most gardai I encounter do not think like yourself. I have very often broken reds and illegally cycled on (completely empty) footpaths for my own safety, I have had gardai give me waves and nods of approval for doing so too, gardai actually on traffic duty who should be on the lookout. These gardai obviously know what he law actually set out to prevent, and it was not what I was doing. Just like those cyclists the instagram woman "caught" were not really doing anything that the law specifically set out to prevent.


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    #124
    droidus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭droidus


    rubadub wrote: »
    It is illegal, the confusion seems to come from those on the spot fines, cycling on the footpath was considered to be one but dropped and I have heard and read of several people thinking it was therefore legal. There is also no age limit here, a toddler out on christmas day on their pink bike with stabilizers on an empty footpath going at slower than walking pace is illegal and I wonder if that woman would be videoing them.

    There is an age limit. IIRC its up to the age of 12.


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    #125
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    droidus wrote: »
    There is an age limit. IIRC its up to the age of 12.
    Apparently not but due consideration is required. It's not fixed penalty though so depends on Garda interpretation of behaviour.


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    #126
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    rubadub wrote: »
    I cannot think of a single person I know who is such a stickler for the law that they would not say cross on a pedestrian red light on a completely empty road, no car or anybody in sight at all, able to see for half a mile either way.

    It's like the tree falling in the empty forest philosophical argument :)

    But you're forgetting about the cars and pedestrians that can appear out of nowhere but only at traffic light controlled junctions, not the ones without traffic lights. Safe to rely on your judgement at those ones.


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    #127
    RobbieMD
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Apparently not but due consideration is required. It's not fixed penalty though so depends on Garda interpretation of behaviour.

    That’s not correct. The previous poster is right. The age of criminal responsibility is 12 except for murder, manslaughter and rape.

    A child under 12 can pretty much do anything “illegal”. They lack the mens rea to accompany the actus rea.


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    #128
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    droidus wrote: »
    There is an age limit. IIRC its up to the age of 12.

    https://irishcycle.com/2015/01/21/no-exemption-for-children-cycling-on-footpaths-says-minister-ahead-of-new-fines/
    There will be no exemption for to the law which makes cycling on footpaths illegal, the minister for transport, tourism and sport has said in response to a parliamentary question asking if there were plans to exclude “very young or hearing impaired cyclists”.

    Cycling on footpaths is already illegal in Ireland (expect shared use paths marked with signs, as pictured above) –, however changes are soon expected to allow offenders to be fined with on-the-spot fines. Currently Gardai have to summons offenders to a district court — which is seen as a waste of Garda and Court resources, and a waste of time for all involved.

    Some cycling campaigners and people who cycle on the footpath claim they do so because it is safer and they are intimated off the roads by motorists. In the absence of off-road cycle paths, primary school children around the country generally use footpaths to cycle to school.

    Minister Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael) said: “I do not believe that a change in the law to allow some cyclists to use footpaths is an appropriate response.”

    He was responding to SeKenny TD (Labour), who asked the minister for transport of his plans “to allow exemptions for very young or hearing impaired cyclists to use footpaths; and if he will make a statement on the matter.”

    Fines had not expected to apply to children under 12, as younger children are currently generally exempted from criminal responsibility, including minor. But the written reply under the minister’s name did not mention this.
    RobbieMD wrote: »
    That’s not correct. The previous poster is right. .
    I doubt that poster was being as pedantic as you are, so would likely not consider themselves "right", many people think children are fully in the right to cycle on footpaths, one county council even had it on their website, I think in some countries it is legal, I used to think it was the case myself for years. If I had said it is illegal to drive an uninsured truck the wrong way down the M50 at 150km/hr I doubt anybody would have said "hmm, actually I think people can up to the age of 12"


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    #129
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,427 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    RobbieMD wrote: »
    The age of criminal responsibility is 12 except for murder, manslaughter and rape.
    but cycling on a footpath is not a criminal offence, but a civil one, i would assume?
    i guess the same concept applies to under 12s though?


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    #130
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,107 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Effects wrote: »
    Found this woman mildly amusing for 2 minutes. Think she's just a little touched.

    Instagram crazy lady

    What about the car in the yellow box and those driving the bus lane after the box and possibly before it too?


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    #131
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,515 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    I’m late to the thread. I’ve said things to other cyclists and motorists on occasion.

    One time I roared at an idiot hopping over the level crossing with his bike at Coolmine and again as I sailed past him a few minutes later. He said he was late for work, the dope.

    I few times I’ve stopped to let motorists know that they have no working brake lights (apart from the LED strip in the middle) and been faced with a wide range of reply’s from shock, to indifference to accusations of it being my fault for being behind them.

    I had a nasty incident last year where I was hit by a second car (who didn’t stop) after being knocked off by a car that pulled out in front of me. Since then I keep a GoPro recording. Now I exhale as I delete the footage of the RLJs and general idiocy.


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    #132
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,107 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Chips Lovell wrote: »
    You're not the police. Lecturing other road users rarely ends well in my experience.

    But where are the police (Garda). They are the ones thst are tolerating/ignoring this. One day nationwide speed checks but what of the other 360+? Same for parking in footpaths, running red lights etc.

    On the latter point, you should be able to politely speak with someone without them loosing it. It's more a symptom of a disregard for others and overt aggression by an increasing number of people, whatever their chosen transport method.

    A bit of policing the daily 'breakdown' areas would go long way. But where are the Garda? It appears they care more about organised crime than civil society.


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    #133
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,549 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    On the latter point, you should be able to politely speak with someone without them loosing it. It's more a symptom of a disregard for others and overt aggression by an increasing number of people, whatever their chosen transport method.

    Fair enough if it is something they may not be aware.
    However, if it is something obvious to them like no lights or breaking a red light, then you are just pontificating. It is a matter for the guards and none of your business really.


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    #134
    OleRodrigo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭OleRodrigo


    Usually I wouldn't be bothered. But occasionally I'll ride past and throw them ' the look ' .

    52b9cbaa0fa04513977cb7201c1ec7db.jpg

    It will burn deep into their soul causing them to thoroughly reflect on their cycling, so they can return to the road a better person.


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    #135
    work
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭work


    oLoonatic wrote: »
    I was stopped at a set of traffic lights yesterday and a cyclist blew through red light. A driver actually rolled down his window and said to me " Thats what gives you guys a bad name" which was refreshing to hear. Its a very complex discussion but it goes back to the whole "it wont happen to me" mentality.


    Yes and I would have said same as all you cnuts speeding but i doubt you say that to the small percentage that don't speed, what a wankeer you should have told him where to go


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    #136
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,418 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    If you see something illegal and dangerous, report it to the authorities.


    Impractical and pointless. Wait times on the Garda Traffic Watch phone line have been 5-20 minutes this weekend. And that's just the starting point on a long tedious journey of giving a formal statement which is handwritten by the Garda. Then you're at the whim of the Garda and their Inspector as to whether they will issue an FCPN, prosecute or not. When I handed over video showing the driver with the phone in his hand five times at five separate stops over ten minutes, the Garda told me: Sure that could be any device in his hand.

    AulWan wrote: »
    Very little point in trying to report anything when there is no way to identify the cyclist because they have no identifying marks.
    I reported a car where the passenger had leaned out the window and assaulted me while cycling. The Garda told me it was an unregistered written off car, so it couldn't be traced.


    LeChienMefiant wrote: »
    There's no law against that, but it's enough for me to want her stopped. She's breaching GDPR with gay abandon, but that's civil law as far as I know. She's harassing people, but not necessarily any individual.
    If you believe she's breaching GDPR, report her to the Data Protection Commissioner. It's nothing to do with the Gardai.

    Chips Lovell wrote: »
    You're not the police. Lecturing other road users rarely ends well in my experience.
    In my experience, it ends in a civil manner 99% of the time. Some drivers might take it on board, some might not. Even those who respond with hostility and defensiveness might well reconsider their actions next time, even if they'd never admit it to you.
    rubadub wrote: »
    I would love to have said "fcuk you ye racist (or sexist) cnut, keep your prejuiced comments to yourself" would be good to see their reaction -would be interesting as I expect even if they are a prize scumbag they would be apologetic or confused about being called racist. If they explain it was nothing to do with your race or sex you can still get them with "oh right, so you are just a prejudiced cnut then, looking for some, ANY, group you can still openly hate, your mother must be proud"

    No doubt that driver would not dare breathe a word to pedestrians on the side of the road while another (usually loads) have just broken reds.
    A taxi came behind me at lights in Clonskeagh one evening last week, shouting and beeping at a female cyclist who had no lights. I asked him if he normally shouted at the taxi drivers who frequently drive round operating their phone, watching video on their phones, holding their phone in their hand. When I agreed that he didn't, I suggested that he was just a bit of a bully who liked shouting at cyclists. He really didn't like that suggestion at all.


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    #137
    Viscount Aggro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    Theres no law against filming people in a public place.
    What if they are filming your child who is also on the bike?


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    #138
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,495 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    A taxi came behind me at lights in Clonskeagh one evening last week, shouting and beeping at a female cyclist who had no lights. I asked him if he normally shouted at the taxi drivers who frequently drive round operating their phone, watching video on their phones, holding their phone in their hand. When I agreed that he didn't, I suggested that he was just a bit of a bully who liked shouting at cyclists. He really didn't like that suggestion at all.

    Someone on a Bicycle will never, ever, win a shouty match with a Taxi driver, ever, so best to avoid them, unless of course they use their Taxi to try and run you off the road, in which case call the Gardai.


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    #139
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Reminds me of a taxi driver nearly dooring a cyclist on Aungier street then berating her for not wearing a helmet.


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    #140
    RobbieMD
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    rubadub wrote: »
    https://irishcycle.com/2015/01/21/no-exemption-for-children-cycling-on-footpaths-says-minister-ahead-of-new-fines/




    I doubt that poster was being as pedantic as you are, so would likely not consider themselves "right", many people think children are fully in the right to cycle on footpaths, one county council even had it on their website, I think in some countries it is legal, I used to think it was the case myself for years. If I had said it is illegal to drive an uninsured truck the wrong way down the M50 at 150km/hr I doubt anybody would have said "hmm, actually I think people can up to the age of 12"

    Is_that_so replied to Droidus saying it would depend on a Garda’s interpretation of behaviour. I’m simply saying that Droidus was correct when he/she said it was 12. A child lacks the mental capacity to commit this offence. A garda would / should not have any dealings in this regard.

    Your analogy of someone driving a truck is an attempt to ridicule my post. The posts concerned kids cycling. We would not reasonably expect a child under 12 to drive a truck contrafow on the M50, but I do expect kids to cycle on a footpath.

    Kids under 12 can cycle on a footpath all day long and no one can do anything about it. My own kids cycle to school everyday on footpaths and I’ve never had any problems from anybody in this regard.


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    #141
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,107 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Viscount Aggro wrote: »
    Theres no law against filming people in a public place.
    What if they are filming your child who is also on the bike?

    Correct. As an adult there is no right to privacy in public spaces.
    Filming children in public or anywhere is a much more complex matter.


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    #142
    RobbieMD
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    but cycling on a footpath is not a criminal offence, but a civil one, i would assume?
    i guess the same concept applies to under 12s though?

    If you were summonsed for cycling on a footpath, and convicted of it, you would have a criminal conviction for that offence. The Gardai have very little to do with civil offences. I can only think of a handful of examples where they have certain powers.

    Under 12s essentially have carte blanche. They are generally considered as lacking the mental capacity, the mens rea aspect, which must accompany the actus rea, the actual offence ie cycling on a footpath in this example. So although they are capable of physically committing the offence of cycling on a footpath, they are not held responsible for the offence as they are incapable of having the required malice aforethought. Both the mens rea and actus rea must be present to convict someone of an offence.


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    #143
    Water2626262
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭Water2626262


    I commute to work on the bike in Dublin and I witness a close overtake, stupid driving, vehicles in bikes lanes and cars hogging the curb not letting cyclists past daily. I do tend to let the odd roar out where I can or let the offenders know.

    It does break my heart though to see some fellow cyclists speed through pedestrian lights, break the lights at busy junctions etc. Gives ammunition to close minded motorists that their dangerous behaviour is acceptable. Then again, maybe most drivers stuck in traffic are too busy on their phones to notice.

    I do think in a way it’s a lack of awareness on roads for some of these offenders. Can see the same cyclists struggle with road positioning and bigger junctions and awareness of roads signs etc. Maybe a road course should be mandatory in school for all road users.

    Rarely would call out another cyclist though.


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    #144
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,418 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Someone on a Bicycle will never, ever, win a shouty match with a Taxi driver, ever, so best to avoid them, unless of course they use their Taxi to try and run you off the road, in which case call the Gardai.
    He drove off roaring 'Fu^^ Off' loudly at me. That's a definite win for me in my book. Calling out a bully for bullying is very satisfying.


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    #145
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,279 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Someone on a Bicycle will never, ever, win a shouty match with a Taxi driver, ever, so best to avoid them, unless of course they use their Taxi to try and run you off the road, in which case call the Gardai.

    I did when I pointed to my light and then told him it was a camera( it’s not ). He quickly restricted the threat of running me over.


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    #146
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I'm pretty happy we don't have more of a culture of people giving their opinions to strangers left right and centre.

    When strangers have given me their opinions, it's often for the likes of:

    Not wearing a helmet. Not illegal, but many people think it is. I wear mine most of the time but there are occasions when I make the choice not to.
    Not wearing hi-viz. Again, not illegal.
    Cycling the wrong way down a one-way street despite the one way sign having an "Except cyclists" exemption.
    Cycling on the "motorway". The "motorway" in this case being the Chapelizod bypass. Thankfully, they updated the signage/road markings a while back to make it more obvious that cyclists are allowed use the bus lane there. Still doesn't stop this taxi driver in a silver Avensis making regular punishment passes in the evening.
    Being in the middle of the "****ing" road. (ie: being in the correct position to make right turn at the junction).
    Cycling on the "footpath" despite signs that say it's a shared use path.
    Not using the cycle lane when the cycle lane isn't mandatory and there's a good reason for me not using it.

    Plenty more examples of people feeling totally in the right and entitled to give their opinion despite being in the wrong. This is pretty much why most people living in Dublin for any length of time have developed an instinctive "**** off" response to anyone who does try to give their opinion. And why I have no desire to encourage people to start giving their opinion to strangers, no matter how sure they might feel that they're in the right. Enough hassle out there as it is.


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    #147
    angel eyes 2012
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭angel eyes 2012


    Viscount Aggro wrote: »
    Theres no law against filming people in a public place.
    What if they are filming your child who is also on the bike?

    The Data Protection Commission has provided guidance in relation to the recording and publishing of footage.

    "A person or organisation using recording equipment should consider that simply recording and/or storing video and audio data could be considered ‘processing’, even if no further use is made of that data. Further, that data may be considered ‘personal data’ where some individual can be identified from it. Thus both the context and quality of the recording can be highly relevant."

    You and I may not necessary recognise anyone from the footage but someone's family member may recognise one of the data subjects, which could render the data 'personal data' and the publisher may have obligations and responsibilities under the GDPR as a Data Controller.

    This position is different to the filming and publication of your child, which generally falls under a purely personal or household activity under the Regulation. However, I do foresee implications in future for parents of children who excessively process and publish their child's personal data on social media.

    I know if someone with a camera recorded me in my vehicle and informed me (loudly) that they intended to publish my personal data, I would ask them for a copy of a privacy notice to check the lawful basis of any data processing, which had been undertaken, their address so I could submit a subject access request and a right to deletion request. I would also submit a complaint to the DPC.


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    #148
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,518 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    The amount of stink-eye and slow head shakes and on two occasions, vocal berating I used to get bringing the kids to creche in a bike trailer was unbelievable a few years ago.

    All from people in cars though. Other cyclists were fine. Kids were strapped in and had helmets.

    Seem to be the norm now. (to bring kids in a trailer)


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    #149
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,743 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    RobbieMD wrote: »
    Under 12s essentially have carte blanche. They are generally considered as lacking the mental capacity, the mens rea aspect, which must accompany the actus rea, the actual offence ie cycling on a footpath in this example. So although they are capable of physically committing the offence of cycling on a footpath, they are not held responsible for the offence as they are incapable of having the required malice aforethought. Both the mens rea and actus rea must be present to convict someone of an offence.

    But you, an adult, can encourage your child to cycle on the footpath, an act which all cyclists are barred from doing, based on the wording of the law. So maybe you, the adult, theoretically, can be fined, or whatever, for encouraging your child to break the law. Children can still break the law, even if they can't be penalised themselves for it.

    I guess that, de facto, children are allowed to cycle on footpaths, since it's unofficially indulged, but not de jure.

    (I don't have any legal education or training. This is quite possibly all horse feathers.)


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    #150
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,743 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    The amount of stink-eye and slow head shakes and on two occasions, vocal berating I used to get bringing the kids to creche in a bike trailer was unbelievable a few years ago.

    All from people in cars though. Other cyclists were fine. Kids were strapped in and had helmets.

    Seem to be the norm now. (to bring kids in a trailer)

    I've got almost nothing of that with the kids in the cargo bike, though I try to ignore people in cars, unless they try to get my attention a few times, in which case, I'll assume it might be important (it never is). I've had a handful of people come up and try to engage me in conversation about helmets and hiviz. Frequenters of the Helmet and Hiviz Megathreads can imagine how that goes for them.


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    #151
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    The amount of stink-eye and slow head shakes and on two occasions, vocal berating I used to get bringing the kids to creche in a bike trailer was unbelievable a few years ago.

    All from people in cars though. Other cyclists were fine. Kids were strapped in and had helmets.

    Seem to be the norm now. (to bring kids in a trailer)

    Oh yeah, had that. I'm sure I mentioned it here and certainly I've seen others with similar experiences here. On a number of occasions I was asked something like "Is it not very dangerous to be cycling with the child on the back" to which I'd reply " oh god yeah, very dangerous just when I get to here" and point to the **** show that was the parking outside the school on both sides of the road. So bad that the local bus service had to be curtailed for a period as it couldn't get through at home time.


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