Principal Officer competition 2019

hardybuck · 18-10-2019 1:38pm

Guff of the highest order from PAS in relation to this testing.

The remote invigilation is bad enough, but to restrict the testing to 9.30-3.30 is an absolute joke.

Summer2019 · 18-10-2019 1:44pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Guff of the highest order from PAS in relation to this testing.

The remote invigilation is bad enough, but to restrict the testing to 9.30-3.30 is an absolute joke.

I understand what you mean, I need to take time off work, use the home laptop as computers in work block everything.

bazzajf · 18-10-2019 2:03pm

I agree with the above comments re the restrictive window of time in which candidates may undertake the test. I would suggest that most people would have to take time off work to do the test. It's ridiculously inflexible - it appears to me that PAS are continuously tinkering with their Open/ID competition processes and somehow (despite years of experience) stumble from screw-up to screw-up. Now, don't get me wrong, it's a difficult thing to get right and they're doing their best but they're not helping themselves with this type of format.

18-10-2019 2:11pm

I don't see the issue myself.

It's even a benefit to do this at home and not have to travel. Now, I understand the test may be repeated in a test centre to further stream candidates, but these jobs are senior positions and I can understand if there's a few hurdles to overcome. I certainly don't think expecting someone to take time off work to progress is a significant ask.

Hmmm, do I have empathy issues

:pac:

hardybuck · 18-10-2019 2:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't see the issue myself.

It's even a benefit to do this at home and not have to travel. Now, I understand the test may be repeated in a test centre to further stream candidates, but these jobs are senior positions and I can understand if there's a few hurdles to overcome. I certainly don't think expecting someone to take time off work to progress is a significant ask.

Hmmm, do I have empathy issues :pac:

Many of the people who are potential applicants will be reluctant enough to bother with these tests at all, and this will be an extra reason not to.

APs currently in the organisation, particularly AP1s, won't see a big increase in pay by going for it, particularly for the increased responsibility, and there is plenty of apathy towards taking on PO posts within the Civil Service as it is.

This is good news for some people but bad news for the organisation in terms of securing talent.

18-10-2019 2:24pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Many of the people who are potential applicants will be reluctant enough to bother with these tests at all, and this will be an extra reason not to.

APs currently in the organisation, particularly AP1s, won't see a big increase in pay by going for it, particularly for the increased responsibility, and there is plenty of apathy towards taking on PO posts within the Civil Service as it is.

This is good news for some people but bad news for the organisation in terms of securing talent.

There's very little of the above I'd have sympathy for.

And if they are only looking for a higher salary they're probably not the right people we need in those positions, especially if they are going to be put off by what I'd consider a relatively minor ask.

Personally I'd be taking a pay cut. Not a massive one in fairness.

But, I'm not looking to start a flame war so would rather not derail the thread.

hardybuck · 18-10-2019 4:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

There's very little of the above I'd have sympathy for.

And if they are only looking for a higher salary they're probably not the right people we need in those positions, especially if they are going to be put off by what I'd consider a relatively minor ask.

Personally I'd be taking a pay cut. Not a massive one in fairness.

But, I'm not looking to start a flame war so would rather not derail the thread.

You shouldn't have sympathy at all for it - but PAS are still making a bad call on this, and it will prompt people not to go forward who will be suitable candidates.

On a plus it'll reduce their testing overheads...

Fair play to you for taking a cut if it suits you.

doughef · 18-10-2019 7:33pm

Have they culled any applications at this stage, or does everyone automatically go forward for the remote testing bit?

18-10-2019 8:13pm

doughef wrote: »

Have they culled any applications at this stage, or does everyone automatically go forward for the remote testing bit?

Not sure by how much but some people will not have been brought forward or else the application process was pointless.

tea and coffee · 18-10-2019 8:54pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not sure by how much but some people will not have been brought forward or else the application process was pointless.

Not necessarily. In other competitions there is often a situation where the testing is the first hurdle. The forms are used at a later stage for shortlisting or at interview. These forms were particularly short on this occasion so I can't be certain if that would make a shortlist or less likely

miss_miaigi · 18-10-2019 10:04pm

doughef wrote: »

Have they culled any applications at this stage, or does everyone automatically go forward for the remote testing bit?

For the most recent AP competition I understand they did the cull based on application forms just before interview so many had passed the assessment stages but then didn’t get an interview.

miss_miaigi · 18-10-2019 10:08pm

Can’t do the assessment In work as no webcam and wouldn’t be able to download anything due to IT restrictions so would have to do it at home. However, not a hope of me being able to take time off to do the assessments between 9:30 and 3:30 on the dates given due to work commitments and a huge deadline that week!

AndrewJRenko · 19-10-2019 7:44am

hardybuck wrote: »

Many of the people who are potential applicants will be reluctant enough to bother with these tests at all, and this will be an extra reason not to.

APs currently in the organisation, particularly AP1s, won't see a big increase in pay by going for it, particularly for the increased responsibility, and there is plenty of apathy towards taking on PO posts within the Civil Service as it is.

This is good news for some people but bad news for the organisation in terms of securing talent.

The recent AHCPS seminars to prepare APs for PO roles were very well attended. There will be lots of interest in this competition.

hardybuck · 19-10-2019 4:51pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The recent AHCPS seminars to prepare APs for PO roles were very well attended. There will be lots of interest in this competition.

A significant number were recently promoted APs planning for a step up in the medium term.

As pretty much anyone can apply it can be expected that, as with most of these competitions, there will be a lot of speculative applicants 'doing it for experience'.

Feedback from people conducting interviews is that the standard of candidates making it to interview has been dropping at an alarming rate.

Bobby04 · 19-10-2019 7:29pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Feedback from people conducting interviews is that the standard of candidates making it to interview has been dropping at an alarming rate.

That's interesting as I'd expect the tests to get that far haven't got any easier!

hardybuck · 19-10-2019 10:11pm

Bobby04 wrote: »

That's interesting as I'd expect the tests to get that far haven't got any easier!

Why is that interesting?

Bobby04 · 20-10-2019 6:57pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Why is that interesting?

I have to explain why I might find something interesting!? Random, but ok - the assessment tests I consider to be quite difficult, and I think their level of difficulty has not reduced recently. Therefore I would consider anyone getting through that stage to have a very decent level of intelligence and intellect. And I would expect that has not changed recently. So for the boards to consider the standard of interviewee to be dropping at an alarming rate surprises me and makes me wonder what has changed...I'm curious and interested if there's some plausible explanation.

hardybuck · 20-10-2019 7:29pm

Bobby04 wrote: »

I have to explain why I might find something interesting!? Random, but ok - the assessment tests I consider to be quite difficult, and I think their level of difficulty has not reduced recently. Therefore I would consider anyone getting through that stage to have a very decent level of intelligence and intellect. And I would expect that has not changed recently. So for the boards to consider the standard of interviewee to be dropping at an alarming rate surprises me and makes me wonder what has changed...I'm curious and interested if there's some plausible explanation.

You don't have to but you have obliged my request - many thanks.

The tests may indicate a type of intelligence and intellect but this does not indicate that the candidate is suitable for the role - hence the shortlisting and interviews that happen afterwards.

I can't tell you why some interviewers feel that way, but those I've spoken to have mentioned that the depth of candidate experience is becoming thinner due to so much promotional activity in recent years.

In addition, a lot of older candidates won't do these tests. They feel they're designed for a younger audience, and will instead go for internal promotional competitions that don't require testing.

Bobby04 · 20-10-2019 8:12pm

hardybuck wrote: »

the depth of candidate experience is becoming thinner due to so much promotional activity in recent years.

In addition, a lot of older candidates won't do these tests. They feel they're designed for a younger audience, and will instead go for internal promotional competitions that don't require testing.

Yeah that all makes a lot of sense, and very much my own perception as well - thanks for the explanation.

21-10-2019 1:06pm

Bobby04 wrote: »

I have to explain why I might find something interesting!? Random, but ok - the assessment tests I consider to be quite difficult, and I think their level of difficulty has not reduced recently. Therefore I would consider anyone getting through that stage to have a very decent level of intelligence and intellect. And I would expect that has not changed recently. So for the boards to consider the standard of interviewee to be dropping at an alarming rate surprises me and makes me wonder what has changed...I'm curious and interested if there's some plausible explanation.

Is it a bad sign that I had to look up the difference between Intelligence and Intellect... and even worse that I'm still not 100% sure of the difference

23-10-2019 11:06am

Instructions on next step received, but I'm in work and don't have the laptop with me to book a time. My own fault I don't have access to it, it'll be the work laptop I'm using

ThumbTaxed · 23-10-2019 9:28pm

Bobby04 wrote: »

I have to explain why I might find something interesting!? Random, but ok - the assessment tests I consider to be quite difficult, and I think their level of difficulty has not reduced recently. Therefore I would consider anyone getting through that stage to have a very decent level of intelligence and intellect. And I would expect that has not changed recently. So for the boards to consider the standard of interviewee to be dropping at an alarming rate surprises me and makes me wonder what has changed...I'm curious and interested if there's some plausible explanation.

Tests result in random results. Some very good staff are poor at them. Some wasters get through. That's a fact.

ThumbTaxed · 24-10-2019 5:03pm

Actually don't have a pc with Web cam and can't do it at work.

Is this not an issue for others?

ThumbTaxed · 24-10-2019 5:23pm

See response.

Actually need a webcam. That is scandalous. Who the flip has them.

Slydice · 24-10-2019 10:37pm

PCWorld have a sale on laptops at the moment if that's any good to ya:
https://www.currys.ie/ieen/search-keywords/xx_xx_30328_xx_xx/-wcwd_comp-/xx-criteria.html

I'd guess most phone shops will probably have a pay-as-you-go mobile broadband offering if that is also needed.

ThumbTaxed · 25-10-2019 9:07am

Slydice wrote: »

PCWorld have a sale on laptops at the moment if that's any good to ya:
https://www.currys.ie/ieen/search-keywords/xx_xx_30328_xx_xx/-wcwd_comp-/xx-criteria.html

I'd guess most phone shops will probably have a pay-as-you-go mobile broadband offering if that is also needed.

Thanks, yeah I will spend 600e and more again on a webcam to do an interview. That's great.

Not even sure if you were being sarcastic here or not.

25-10-2019 9:21am

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

Thanks, yeah I will spend 600e and more again on a webcam to do an interview. That's great.

Not even sure if you were being sarcastic here or not.

Not sure where the attitude is coming from - clearly they were trying to help.

As far as I'm aware the process is not mandatory. If you do not wish to participate that's fine.

If, for whatever reason, you are not able to participate in the highest Civil Service position that can be applied for externally through open competition process then that's just too bad.

Personally I know probably half a dozen people that I could borrow a web enabled lap top to do the tests. You don't need to tell anyone it's for an interview.

This is a senior position in the CS where you're going to be working with the people that govern the country (the permanent and political government). Consider this the first test of initiative as part of that process.

Good luck.

Irishder · 25-10-2019 9:33am

Does anyone have any idea what type of questions will be asked? It is a normal IQ test with numerical and mechanical reasoning? Any links to try out similar tests?

25-10-2019 9:49am

Irishder wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea what type of questions will be asked? It is a normal IQ test with numerical and mechanical reasoning? Any links to try out similar tests?

There's apparently sample test questions that can be tried three times each. But, I've not looked at them yet.

I'd be interested to hear more about the type of questions, but will see the samples soon enough.

EricShaw · 30-10-2019 11:51am

What do you think of JobTestPrep's preparation? Seems OK to me.

MagicBusDriver1 · 30-10-2019 12:06pm

EricShaw wrote: »

What do you think of JobTestPrep's preparation? Seems OK to me.

What tests are you using? There seems to be loads on options on their website.

EricShaw · 30-10-2019 2:47pm

MagicBusDriver1 wrote: »

What tests are you using? There seems to be loads on options on their website.

This page about the Prinicipal Officer Test - jobtestprep.co.uk/ics-principal-officer-ireland-assessment?f

AndrewJRenko · 30-10-2019 4:07pm

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

See response.

Actually need a webcam. That is scandalous. Who the flip has them.

Most work laptops won't allow any software or add-ins to be installed, so will probably not be usable for this, unless prior arrangements have been made.

Ladder22 · 30-10-2019 9:53pm

EricShaw wrote: »

This page about the Prinicipal Officer Test - jobtestprep.co.uk/ics-principal-officer-ireland-assessment?f

No option for TestReach, disappointing, money back time

EricShaw · 31-10-2019 2:49pm

Ladder22 wrote: »

No option for TestReach, disappointing, money back time

What do you mean? They mention that TestReach is just a platform. As far as I know, TestReach don't write the tests, the Public Appointments Service do.
Am I wrong?

cee_jay · 31-10-2019 2:53pm

EricShaw wrote: »

What do you think of JobTestPrep's preparation? Seems OK to me.

Start Practesing Now

They could at least spell check their page...

EricShaw · 31-10-2019 4:38pm

cee_jay wrote: »

They could at least spell check their page...

If I'm not mistaken, that's how you write practicing in UK English.

cee_jay · 31-10-2019 4:47pm

No - the word is spelled "practising" - there is no E in the middle of the word.
The spelling is correct further down the page.

doughef · 02-11-2019 9:12pm

Any idea if it’s a big deal to reschedule the test ?

02-11-2019 10:26pm

doughef wrote: »

Any idea if it’s a big deal to reschedule the test ?

Within the three days? Perfectly allowed if there are spots remaining.

doughef · 02-11-2019 10:28pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Within the three days? Perfectly allowed if there are spots remaining.

Thanks - no option on the app though.
I’ll send a mail .

Cheers

02-11-2019 10:29pm

From the test questions, my strengths would be the "scenario" questions and the maths type questions. The logic questions would be my weakness. In a real situation I'm fine, but these pure IQ type time pressure questions break me out in a rash

02-11-2019 10:32pm

doughef wrote: »

Thanks - no option on the app though.
I’ll send a mail .

Cheers

I can't remember how now, but there was a facility to change dates... unless all slots are taken.

VanHalen · 03-11-2019 6:06pm

Does anyone know if they use negative marking i.e. are points deducted if you choose the wrong answer?

03-11-2019 6:10pm

VanHalen wrote: »

Does anyone know if they use negative marking i.e. are points deducted if you choose the wrong answer?

Nope, the instructions specifically state negative marks do not apply.

ThumbTaxed · 03-11-2019 8:25pm

Where else can one do another sample test?

tea and coffee · 04-11-2019 2:22am

Is there no way to assess your answers vs. the correct answers in the sample tests?

Witco · 04-11-2019 1:25pm

Has anyone completed the remotely invigilated tests yet?

fi314 · 04-11-2019 2:37pm

We just got a message re-emphasising how to submit the test and not to press the wrong button. Based on this it would seem that there may have been some issues this am

04-11-2019 4:54pm

tea and coffee wrote: »

Is there no way to assess your answers vs. the correct answers in the sample tests?

Go through them again, and take pics of the suggested answers.

Principal Officer competition 2019

Comments