Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

An Ciarraioch · 05-10-2019 12:43pm

maebee wrote: »

Thanks for this Hurrache. That's got to be the best Brexit article written in any UK paper since this sorry mess began.

Indeed, the Tánaiste has retweeted it himself.

GM228 · 05-10-2019 12:52pm

J Mysterio wrote: »

GM228 wrote: »

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Can the EU grant them an extension of 6 months on condition they have a referendum?

No, they can't interfere with domestic matters.

They very much can. They can say no to an extension if they decide that's the best course of action. They have said in the past, and they are saying now also, that there should be a 'good reason' for an extension.

Look at the point I was referring to in relation to the EU making demands that the UK hold a referendum, the EU absolutely can not interfere with purely domestic matters, nor can it for example simply decide to impose an extension as it sees fit, there must be unilateral agreement.

The EU can't encroach on a member states sovereignty and force it to do something which is not in contradiction of community law, such an action is beyond the competence of community law.

Leroy42 · 05-10-2019 12:57pm

maebee wrote: »

https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2018/10/02/news/arlene-foster-says-good-friday-agreement-not-sacrosanct-as-she-backs-boris-johnson-s-brexit-plan-1447683/

Arlene needs her head examined if she thinks the GFA can be revisited and amended in any way. It's unforgivable that she should say it's 'not sacrosanct". The world, the USA in particular, is watching you Arlene.

You say it can't but she has the full backing of HMG behind her. They are more than happy to tear up, or more correctly break down, the GFA in order to get the bigger prize of Brexit.

The UK, of which NI is inconsequential, wants out and Johnson and his ilk have persuaded many that any price is worth paying to achieve that.

I don't have the link but Adam Boultan on Sky News had an interview where the person basically said that pain will always be necessary. We have also had the change in line the last few weeks from HMG that change in NI was always a necessary part of Brexit and Ireland just has to get used to it.

GM228 · 05-10-2019 1:04pm

reslfj wrote: »

The EU Commission is meant to work with a number of commissioners equal to 2/3 (=18/19) of the number states.

The EU Council has until now unanimously decided that all members can have one commissioner all the time. It's more a right and benefit for members than a necessity for the Commission to be legal and operational.

Lars

All Article 17.5 of the TEU states is the European Commission must work with two thirds unless a unanimous decision of the European Council amends that number - which it has done so increasing to one per member state, therefore under the requirements of the EU treaties the Commission must work with a commissioner for each member state (with some exceptions for resignation, compulsory retirement or death).

This by the way has already been confirmed by the European Court of Justice in a number of cases which arose out of the Martin Bangemann issue such as the Germany vs Commission Case C3334-99 and the Kvaerner Warnow Werft GmbH vs Commission Joined Cases T-227/99 and T-134/00 cases.

The incoming President Ursula von der Leyen also confirmed on 10th September that the UK must nominate a Commissioner in accordance with the rules of the treaties.

Ursula wrote:

If the U.K. were to ask for an extension, and if that were granted, then according to the rules of the treaty, then yes, a commissioner would have to be appointed and that person would receive a portfolio

Until the Council unanimously decides to reduce the requirement the two thirds minimum is irrelevant.

Stop moaning ffs · 05-10-2019 1:18pm

Seems the Queen is refusing to be used as a Tory election manifesto mouthpiece. The right move from the palace.

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1180447076062117888?s=21

J Mysterio · 05-10-2019 1:28pm

https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1180459042906525696

Professor Moriarty · 05-10-2019 1:40pm

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1180459042906525696

I wonder if local business leaders find the DUP frustrating.

GM228 · 05-10-2019 1:41pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I wonder if local business leaders find the DUP frustrating.

Business leaders, workers, or indeed the general population (76% ?) of NI most likely.

Professor Moriarty · 05-10-2019 1:43pm

GM228 wrote: »

Business leaders, workers, or indeed the general population (76% ?) of NI most likely.

And a tradional base in farming.

A Dub in Glasgo · 05-10-2019 1:49pm

I had a look at that Belfast telegraph and saw this :eek:

'Arlene Foster has said that a grand committee of local MPs could decide on Northern Ireland's post-Brexit trading arrangements if the Stormont institutions remain suspended.

The DUP leader last night revealed the plan to hand decision-making power on EU regulatory alignment to Westminster if power-sharing isn't restored.'

https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1180397567538020352

GM228 · 05-10-2019 2:06pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Think the back of the line is being taken that she actually said it. She didn't. Femi tweeted that that was effectively what she was saying but her words were not as clear cut as that.

She essentially said that Australia has done and will continue to negotiate trade deals and if the time comes to do so with the UK, then, they will.

Just in relation to Australia I noticed this Tweet which highlighted the realities of such:-

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1180265819550470144?s=19

And this point:-

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1180267852970041344?s=19

Professor Moriarty · 05-10-2019 2:08pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I had a look at that Belfast telegraph and saw this :eek:

'Arlene Foster has said that a grand committee of local MPs could decide on Northern Ireland's post-Brexit trading arrangements if the Stormont institutions remain suspended.

The DUP leader last night revealed the plan to hand decision-making power on EU regulatory alignment to Westminster if power-sharing isn't restored.'

https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1180397567538020352

What could possibly go wrong?

Professor Moriarty · 05-10-2019 2:11pm

GM228 wrote: »

Just in relation to Australia I noticed this Tweet which highlighted the realities of such:-

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1180265819550470144?s=19

And this point:-

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1180267852970041344?s=19

His other comments are worth reading too.

Capt'n Midnight · 05-10-2019 2:15pm

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1180459042906525696

Dear Arlene

even the DUP Minister for the Economy thinks you're wrong.

Obviously he's not the Minister now.

Because you got Stormont suspended. :mad:

Because that would hinder investigations into possible dodgy dealings ?

Some would even suggest Brexit itself is for a suspension of EU membership to hinder investigations into possible dodgy dealings when new EU laws take force in January.
/RANT

FrancieBrady · 05-10-2019 2:24pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I had a look at that Belfast telegraph and saw this :eek:

'Arlene Foster has said that a grand committee of local MPs could decide on Northern Ireland's post-Brexit trading arrangements if the Stormont institutions remain suspended.

The DUP leader last night revealed the plan to hand decision-making power on EU regulatory alignment to Westminster if power-sharing isn't restored.'

https://twitter.com/BelTel/status/1180397567538020352

It'll be a local Orange Lodge should decide before we are finished with this nonsense.

BonnieSituation · 05-10-2019 2:26pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It'll be a local Orange Lodge should decide before we are finished with this nonsense.

Never has LOL had more resonance

Capt'n Midnight · 05-10-2019 2:27pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I had a look at that Belfast telegraph and saw this :eek:

'Arlene Foster has said that a grand committee of local MPs could decide on Northern Ireland's post-Brexit trading arrangements if the Stormont institutions remain suspended.

The DUP leader last night revealed the plan to hand decision-making power on EU regulatory alignment to Westminster if power-sharing isn't restored.'

twitter.com/BelTel/status/1180397567538020352

10 vs 8 ?

Not even trying to pretend that this is anything other than a DUP veto.

Call me Al · 05-10-2019 2:42pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Its kind of hilarious, there goes the whole british jobs for british people argument, none of them want to do this kind of stuff and the problem was forewarned at least 2 years ago....

Does anyone remember this little sweetheart idea!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/14/tory-minister-wanted-uk-pensioners-to-be-low-wage-fruit-pickers

As part of his proposal Mr Paterson even floated the idea that, since the pensioners would work slower and thus increase costs for the farmer, they could be exempt from minimum wage laws....
You seriously couldn't make this bs up if you tried.

CelticRambler · 05-10-2019 2:46pm

GM228 wrote: »

Just in relation to Australia I noticed this Tweet which highlighted the realities of such:-

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1180265819550470144?s=19

Meandering off from that tweet took me to this (NSFW) Aussie video explanation of how preferential voting works. Maybe something to use from now on whenever the adjective "undemocratic" is used in the context of Brexit.

CelticRambler · 05-10-2019 2:49pm

Call me Al wrote: »

Does anyone remember this little sweetheart idea!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/14/tory-minister-wanted-uk-pensioners-to-be-low-wage-fruit-pickers

'Twould work quite well, now that they don't have their Thomas Cook holidays to take them out of the country.

I wonder how many of those TC employees, protesting at the weekend that they can't pay their bills, have signed up for a month's fruit-picking ...?

BonnieSituation · 05-10-2019 4:01pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

'Twould work quite well, now that they don't have their Thomas Cook holidays to take them out of the country.

I wonder how many of those TC employees, protesting at the weekend that they can't pay their bills, have signed up for a month's fruit-picking ...?

And how many voted "Leave"?

megatron989 · 05-10-2019 4:53pm

Does anyone know anything about the supposed 100's of gagging orders the UK government has put out stopping businesses from discussing negative effects of Brexit? Or is that more of a conspiracy?
I've noticed a lot of companies closing and not mentioning Brexit as an issue which to me adds evidence that they've been told to not mention it somehow.

prawnsambo · 05-10-2019 5:03pm

megatron989 wrote: »

Does anyone know anything about the supposed 100's of gagging orders the UK government has put out stopping businesses from discussing negative effects of Brexit? Or is that more of a conspiracy?
I've noticed a lot of companies closing and not mentioning Brexit as an issue which to me adds evidence that they've been told to not mention it somehow.

I may be wrong, but I think these were NDAs (non disclosure agreements) to prevent them talking about briefings they were given by the government.

BonnieSituation · 05-10-2019 5:20pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

I may be wrong, but I think these were NDAs (non disclosure agreements) to prevent them talking about briefings they were given by the government.

How can you injunct [sic] the truth?

I mean, the NDA has no validity in the sense that it only relates specifically to detail given by a govt. But if you go bust, you can say "challenging trading conditions due to current uncertainty"; how would that breach an NDA relating to a briefing that involved the State saying "yeah, the fan is going to get covered in excrement. SOZ. Don't tell the peeps."

It seems too far-fetched that a government this inept could manage to get companies to hunker down behind some NDAs.

prawnsambo · 05-10-2019 5:24pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

How can you injunct [sic] the truth?

I mean, the NDA has no validity in the sense that it only relates specifically to detail given by a govt. But if you go bust, you can say "challenging trading conditions due to current uncertainty"; how would that breach an NDA relating to a briefing that involved the State saying "yeah, the fan is going to get covered in excrement. SOZ. Don't tell the peeps."

It seems too far-fetched that a government this inept could manage to get companies to hunker down behind some NDAs.

This was a good while ago. Back before b-day 1. I'm not sure what the OP is referring to, but I thought it might be these NDAs, just distorted by Chinese whispers and time.

Sam Russell · 05-10-2019 5:24pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

How can you injunct [sic] the truth?

I mean, the NDA has no validity in the sense that it only relates specifically to detail given by a govt. But if you go bust, you can say "challenging trading conditions due to current uncertainty"; how would that breach an NDA relating to a briefing that involved the State saying "yeah, the fan is going to get covered in excrement. SOZ. Don't tell the peeps."

It seems too far-fetched that a government this inept could manage to get companies to hunker down behind some NDAs.

I think the evidence is all around. TC collapsed because people did not book holidays. Honda are leaving because ... wait .. I'll think of it soon. Jaguar are in trouble because .. Oh wait - I'm sure there is a reason. Sterling is down because .. wait for it .. it's raining.

The general failing of the British economy after the last three years has nothing to do with Brexit - but I could be wrong. In july 2015 (before Brexit), GB£ was 70p to the euro, now it is 89p having been as high as 94p.

MrMusician18 · 05-10-2019 5:30pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the evidence is all around. TC collapsed because people did not book holidays. Honda are leaving because ... wait .. I'll think of it soon. Jaguar are in trouble because .. Oh wait - I'm sure there is a reason. Sterling is down because .. wait for it .. it's raining.

The general failing of the British economy after the last three years has nothing to do with Brexit - but I could be wrong. In july 2015 (before Brexit), GB£ was 70p to the euro, now it is 89p having been as high as 94p.

Thomas Cook collapsed because of a failed merger and associated legacy debt, Brexit had little to do with it tbh.

Not everything can be pinned on Brexit.

Kermit.de.frog · 05-10-2019 5:31pm

Good thread on EU position now

https://twitter.com/MarkUrban01/status/1180482180755202048

It's not looking good.

Hurrache · 05-10-2019 5:32pm

Literally just read that Kermit, Hungary not going to surprise anyone either
[url]

https://twitter.com/MarkUrban01/status/1180482184383287302?s=19[/url]

Kermit.de.frog · 05-10-2019 5:47pm

https://twitter.com/BenChu_/status/1180504684534079490

Depends how long UK economy could stutter on with ever more tightly restricted access to EU markets...

Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

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