The Strike is over. What happens now?

Muckit · 04-10-2019 09:23PM

Base price wrote: »

Kepak has announced their new pricing structure and weight limitations. It ain't good reading :mad:

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/kepak-reveals-in-spec-bonus-pricing-structure-and-weight-penalties/

How do you see it affecting you? Your steers and heifers should fit the criteria surely? Do ye kill cows?

Base price · 04-10-2019 09:29PM

Muckit wrote: »

How do you see it affecting you? Your steers and heifers should fit the criteria surely? Do ye kill cows?

We feed a few cows every year, mostly dairy culls which would be p's with a few o's.

jaymla627 · 04-10-2019 09:50PM

Base price wrote: »

We feed a few cows every year, mostly dairy culls which would be p's with a few o's.

If the above pricing structure was followed wholesale, it leaves a good chunk of cows in the dairy herd worthless as culls sub 200 euro to be worth buying by finishers between this and calves been a lost cause it's some loss of income going forward....
Your easily talking a hit of 15k plus in sales of culls and calves compared to a few years ago for your average 100 cow herd

Bass Reeves · 04-10-2019 09:50PM

Base price wrote: »

Kepak has announced their new pricing structure and weight limitations. It ain't good reading :mad:

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/kepak-reveals-in-spec-bonus-pricing-structure-and-weight-penalties/

On the plus side it is detailed and lay out exactly where you stand with all category of cattle. There was always a danger with the amount of cows(especially dairy cows)potentially coming on stream that processors would become more fussy about cow category. On cows they are more or less saying they do not want canners at all and if you send them in that they will be hammered on price.

It is interesting as well that Young Bulls U16 months but over 400kg DW will be treated the same as bulls between 16-24 months. This will create an issue withbetter quality bulls grading U and better where it is hard to get FS on them. But the sting in the tail will be if they put the over weight penalties on to bulls age 16-24 months.

With Steers and Heifers you can take it that the 420DW limit before penalties will be reduced over time. It also limits the value of suckler bred cattle.

cute geoge · 04-10-2019 09:51PM

I have heard quotes of p/o cows on €2.70/2.80

Base price · 04-10-2019 09:53PM

cute geoge wrote: »

I have heard quotes of p/o cows on €2.70/2.80

2.60, 70 and 80 and your lucky if you can get them booked in.

Sheep breeder · 04-10-2019 09:54PM

kk.man wrote: »

P grade cattle are being hammered on the new grid.

And that’s where they deserve to be and sooner the better fellas realise this the better for the beef industry, the dairy mans cull calf.

Sheep breeder · 04-10-2019 10:04PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

If the above pricing structure was followed wholesale, it leaves a good chunk of cows in the dairy herd worthless as culls sub 200 euro to be worth buying by finishers between this and calves been a lost cause it's some loss of income going forward....
Your easily talking a hit of 15k plus in sales of culls and calves compared to a few years ago for your average 100 cow herd

What your saying is true and leaves the problem back with the dairy man, canner and jex cows and P grade calves are not wanted in the system and change may come about by having to feed and rear these type of stock themselves.

Cavanjack · 04-10-2019 10:25PM

This is their way of getting their 8cent back off the farmer plus a little bit more. It spells the end of the continental bull job anyway as getting them into weights of 450kg was where you’d make money on them.
As for cows they are more or less saying they don’t want them. All they seem to want is wh and aa cattle from the dairy herd.
No doubt others will follow these guidelines and I’m surprised aibp hasn’t already brought in these weight restrictions as they have them in in England a few years I think.

Danzy · 04-10-2019 10:43PM

Sheep breeder wrote: »

And that’s where they deserve to be and sooner the better fellas realise this the better for the beef industry, the dairy mans cull calf.

Their mince is no different to the finest Bullock in the land.

That must be realised as well.

Bass Reeves · 04-10-2019 11:37PM

Sheep breeder wrote: »

And that’s where they deserve to be and sooner the better fellas realise this the better for the beef industry, the dairy mans cull calf.

Sheep breeder wrote: »

What your saying is true and leaves the problem back with the dairy man, canner and jex cows and P grade calves are not wanted in the system and change may come about by having to feed and rear these type of stock themselves.

You are forgetting to add in U+E grade cattle as well.

Base price · 04-10-2019 11:51PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

On the plus side it is detailed and lay out exactly where you stand with all category of cattle. There was always a danger with the amount of cows(especially dairy cows)potentially coming on stream that processors would become more fussy about cow category. On cows they are more or less saying they do not want canners at all and if you send them in that they will be hammered on price.

It is interesting as well that Young Bulls U16 months but over 400kg DW will be treated the same as bulls between 16-24 months. This will create an issue withbetter quality bulls grading U and better where it is hard to get FS on them. But the sting in the tail will be if they put the over weight penalties on to bulls age 16-24 months.

With Steers and Heifers you can take it that the 420DW limit before penalties will be reduced over time. It also limits the value of suckler bred cattle.

Talk about trying to cajole farmers (especially dairy farmers) as to why this crock of **** is good result after the factory blockades by the Beef Plan/Independent Farmers organisation.

Jeez will ye ever cop on.

Bass Reeves · 04-10-2019 11:54PM

Danzy wrote: »

Their mince is no different to the finest Bullock in the land.

That must be realised as well.

In one way if you look at it a cow cannot be heavy enough as long as she is not going over fat and a Bull cannot be light enough as long as he has fat cover.fat cover. Is the target to have big heavy cows for the mince side and kill everything else from 280-360kgs for the other markets.

Bass Reeves · 05-10-2019 07:48AM

Base price wrote: »

Talk about trying to cajole farmers (especially dairy farmers) as to why this crock of **** is good result after the factory blockades by the Beef Plan/Independent Farmers organisation.

Jeez will ye ever cop on.

Not really its about a couple things. As processors will have to negotiate with Producer groups, they have to set specifications. However these specifications have to apply to all farmers. PG will be able to see the prices at different factory level for different grades of stock ( I think you can already do that at the department price returns). If there is hidden special deals not available to producer groups it will stand out like a sore thumb.

Kepak had already got rid of the Kepak club heifer scheme so it is not unusual for them to change specs's. Another factor is they are involved in the Glanbia dairy calf to beef scheme so long term the spec will apply there. It interesting as well that Teagasc has produced a document hinting that dairy farmers will have to carry calves to an older age ( at least 3-4 weeks of age) to achieve a decent price. Is this a hint that dairy farmers will have to more or less subsidise the calf leaving the farm.

However the sting for processors is that it will discourage lads form rearing cattle unless grading changes. Good quality Fr can no longer grade P or even O- and all AA and HE cattle need to be hitting O+ if of fairly decent confirmation. It also more or less making it look like that a beef price base of 4.2/kg is required for in spec beef and that O/P+ cows need to be at the 3.5/kg mark.

These specs would have come in without BP anyway I imagine it is more or less what the processors were hintng at over the last 5 years except they have left the weight limit at 420kgs not at 380 like Foyle meats.

jaymla627 · 05-10-2019 08:21AM

Base price wrote: »

Talk about trying to cajole farmers (especially dairy farmers) as to why this crock of **** is good result after the factory blockades by the Beef Plan/Independent Farmers organisation.

Jeez will ye ever cop on.

To be fair, 15 odd years of lads been told to breed lighter easier maintaince high ebi/crossbred cows has left us with a animal that's worthless on the beef side of things, dabble a bit in x-breeds here and when finishing you'll struggle to get them into 240kgs deadweight while the big holsteins will be coming in at 400kgs plus easily, the dairy man myself included is either going to have to go back to a more dual purpose type of cow our just take the hit on worthless cows and calves going forward if they want to stay on their current breeding programmes

Mooooo · 05-10-2019 08:35AM

Independent verification of the grading would be the thing

Lime Tree Farm · 05-10-2019 08:40AM

Base price wrote: »

Kepak has announced their new pricing structure and weight limitations. It ain't good reading :mad: QUOTE]

Cork & Limerick Meat Markets - 1806

"The third scene begins at the scales; here another perquisite must be paid, and much good meat is refused, because truly it should be a few pounds less than the stipulated weight per beast; "

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/history/dutton_survey/dutton_survey_chapter3.3.htm

White Clover · 05-10-2019 08:57AM

Base price wrote: »

Kepak has announced their new pricing structure and weight limitations. It ain't good reading :mad:

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/kepak-reveals-in-spec-bonus-pricing-structure-and-weight-penalties/

This will really only affect dealers where they'd be around farmers' yards picking up canners for €50 and cashing them in for €200.

Base price · 05-10-2019 09:10AM

White Clover wrote: »

This will really only affect dealers where they'd be around farmers' yards picking up canners for €50 and cashing them in for €200.

I disagree, it effects dairy farmers directly the majority of which I know send their cows to the factory be it out of the parlour or after some feeding to get cover on them.

White Clover · 05-10-2019 09:19AM

Base price wrote: »

I disagree, it effects dairy farmers directly the majority of which I know send their cows to the factory be it out of the parlour or after some feeding to get cover on them.

90% of culls will get the base price or near enough to it. Dairy farmers are not going to bother feeding any canner that they might have. These are dealer cows, they usually turn these straight away as it'd be risky to hold onto them for any number of reasons.

Base price · 05-10-2019 09:24AM

White Clover wrote: »

90% of culls will get the base price or near enough to it. Dairy farmers are not going to bother feeding any canner that they might have. These are dealer cows, they usually turn these straight away as it'd be risky to hold onto them for any number of reasons.

No they don't as any jersey influence reduces dw. I don't think people realise how many cross bred cows there are in herds in the country.

White Clover · 05-10-2019 09:32AM

Base price wrote: »

No they don't as any jersey influence reduces dw. I don't think people realise how many cross bred cows there are in herds in the country.

250kg will catch an awful lot of cows, including a percentage of xbreds.

Neddyusa · 05-10-2019 11:43AM

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

Base price wrote: »

Kepak has announced their new pricing structure and weight limitations. It ain't good reading :mad: QUOTE]

Cork & Limerick Meat Markets - 1806

"The third scene begins at the scales; here another perquisite must be paid, and much good meat is refused, because truly it should be a few pounds less than the stipulated weight per beast; "

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/history/dutton_survey/dutton_survey_chapter3.3.htm

Wow - over 200 years and the main problems facing the Irish beef farmer are still exactly the same!

1. Price completely at the whims of the English economy/wars.
2. Beef merchants who tell the farmer they don't want his cattle - but they'll find a place for it if the farmer agrees to a lower price after slaughter and boning out.
3. The slaughter house and boning Hall keeping the offal and first prime cuts to pay their own bills.
etc. Etc.
4. Slaughterhouse moving the goalposts on grading, arguments over trim and scales etc.
5. A full day wasted at the cattle fair - and the best part of the few quid that was made is wasted on whiskey and Porter after!

Probably the only issue that has improved for the farmer in the meantime is that most are paid promptly now rather than the 91 days wait for the cheque in 1800!

Bass Reeves · 05-10-2019 11:53AM

Base price wrote: »

No they don't as any jersey influence reduces dw. I don't think people realise how many cross bred cows there are in herds in the country.

If there is s commercial market for this product some factory will have different spec or pay off this pricing structure for these cattle. It interesting that now every issue is being blamed on BP and no credit for anything positive

Mooooo · 05-10-2019 12:54PM

Tbh it would be interesting to see what they are selling all product for, not just the inspec to see if it actually does cost them that much. Was there a push by the eu to ensure more clarity on the supply chain and it's breakdown in terms of pricing which mii were vehemently opposed to as they say it would effect them commercially, even tho it's the exact info they have on us

morphy87 · 05-10-2019 01:07PM

Weather people agreed with the strike or not is irrelevant now as the strike happened but anyone that doesn’t think there is a problem now is diluled, ground conditions getting very bad,cattle going overage and fat,bills and stocking loans to be cleared and cattle to be bought back, the amount of cattle going into agents books is increasing daily, more cattle going into the book than coming out,it’s going to take along time to sort this thing out,I’m three weeks behind now and nothing going to be took off me this week either

Base price · 05-10-2019 03:05PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If there is s commercial market for this product some factory will have different spec or pay off this pricing structure for these cattle. It interesting that now every issue is being blamed on BP and no credit for anything positive

Ah now don't be like that. I did agree that the O-4+ was a good achievement.

wrangler · 05-10-2019 03:07PM

And we've two beef forums now

visatorro · 05-10-2019 07:10PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

To be fair, 15 odd years of lads been told to breed lighter easier maintaince high ebi/crossbred cows has left us with a animal that's worthless on the beef side of things, dabble a bit in x-breeds here and when finishing you'll struggle to get them into 240kgs deadweight while the big holsteins will be coming in at 400kgs plus easily, the dairy man myself included is either going to have to go back to a more dual purpose type of cow our just take the hit on worthless cows and calves going forward if they want to stay on their current breeding programmes

Maybe these fleckveigh or however its spelt could be the answer. Ones iv seen are as good as any limousine cross cow iv ever seen. These weren't at the ploughing now. They could well be the answer but I heard that about montys before aswell! 2300 for calved heifers apparently. I'll let teagasc get the fleckveigh trails going before i go mad and buy a few!

mf240 · 05-10-2019 07:19PM

Dealers and lads with a couple of hundred cows at a time will be selling flat.
In all fairness a cow under a 100 kgs is not going to be very common.

The Strike is over. What happens now?

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