The Strike is over. What happens now?

Keep Sluicing

Muckit wrote: »

Will dairy lads react to it in their breeding policies? Will be interesting. It's not their main revenue so may be irrelevant.

Was over at a friends house on sunday, milking 400+. Doesn't care what the bull calf makes at 10 days ould as long as he wont have to pay more than €5 for it to be taken away. The cost are then attributed to the heifer calf

Base price

maidhc wrote: »

Might interest some of you:

http://opac.oireachtas.ie/Data/Library3/Library3/DCT143007.pdf

Thanks for the link. I've just read the first few pages but considering the time of night I will postpone further reading until daylight

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

The way I see it, culls and calves are worth about 2.5 to 3c/l (that's say 600e for the cow and 50e for the calf), what the lads with the smaller jex are simply doing is accepting half that, so let's say 1.5c/l, however they are more than gaining it all back with higher solids.

It's a zero sums equation for lads with the smaller x-breed cow now going forward, your cull cow is at a push worth 250 euro and your calf maybe if kept and well done to 8 weeks might come into 40 euros less rearing costs your looking at minus 100 euro conservatively...
Have a batch of these coming in next spring will be interesting to see how they turn out

Muckit

Base price wrote: »

I read it the other way - Kepak know that there are large numbers of dairy cull cows within the system (P & O's) and they are going to hoover them up at small money to swell their profit margins. Cute hoors..

I think Kepak.are laying down a marker that they dont want the lowest 2 grades, literally "skin and bone" and that they're not going to be used as a knackery to save the collection fee.

Castlekeeper

Timmaay wrote: »

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

How so? I'm.still going to keep breeding the same size 550kg cow we always have.
No Intention of breeding bigger HO's or adding another breed like fleck or montbelliard.
We never relied on cull cow price or calf price here, nothing has changed - for us any way.

On another thread they're wondering about if it's worth while buying land, if you're want to do it you'll do it. Simple as. If land came up in the morning that suited us we'd be on for it

The way I see it, culls and calves are worth about 2.5 to 3c/l (that's say 600e for the cow and 50e for the calf), what the lads with the smaller jex are simply doing is accepting half that, so let's say 1.5c/l, however they are more than gaining it all back with higher solids.

I would have a figure of - €150/yr for a Jex vs a Nrx based on a cull cow price of €200/4 yrs less and a calf price if €100/yr less. Incuding the milk price it breaks even at best for the jersey but it gives a lot of farmers an excuse for not minding bull calves properly.

Castlekeeper

jaymla627 wrote: »

Timmaay wrote: »

The way I see it, culls and calves are worth about 2.5 to 3c/l (that's say 600e for the cow and 50e for the calf), what the lads with the smaller jex are simply doing is accepting half that, so let's say 1.5c/l, however they are more than gaining it all back with higher solids.

It's a zero sums equation for lads with the smaller x-breed cow now going forward, your cull cow is at a push worth 250 euro and your calf maybe if kept and well done to 8 weeks might come into 40 euros less rearing costs your looking at minus 100 euro conservatively...
Have a batch of these coming in next spring will be interesting to see how they turn out

Def worth a try but I'd be wary if their fertility and their feed efficiency off forage.
That said I've a few cows in calf to Brown Swiss next spring, from the other side of the hills.

jaymla627

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Def worth a try but I'd be wary if their fertility and their feed efficiency off forage.
That said I've a few cows in calf to Brown Swiss next spring, from the other side of the hills.

Crossed of pretty extreme holstein cows so they should milk anyways, I'd reckon you'd have a glorified suckler cow if you went with fleck on a high ebi 5000 litre grazing type cow

K.G.

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

Was over at a friends house on sunday, milking 400+. Doesn't care what the bull calf makes at 10 days ould as long as he wont have to pay more than €5 for it to be taken away. The cost are then attributed to the heifer calf

If its who i think it is the cost of anything dosent seem to bother them

Bass Reeves

Base price wrote: »

Stand corrected but all Bord Bia approved beef and milk is grass fed.

In theory yes buy all processor feedlots and contracted feedlots are feeding high ration diets the last 100 days with very little silage. In milk yes most lads have grass silage in the diet all the time

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I have my own solution for my "****ty" calves thank you very much!

At present that is grand. In 2018 10k calves were slaughtered this year it will hit nearly 15K we are looking at a 45% increase. At a minimum for 2020 pencil in 20K unless there is a drastic change in calf demand. At present the government is jumping through hoops to export calves and looking at an option of walk on/off ferry to get over the rest period in Cherbourg.

Co-op's could penalize milk for bobby calf farms.

Timmaay wrote: »

The way I see it, culls and calves are worth about 2.5 to 3c/l (that's say 600e for the cow and 50e for the calf), what the lads with the smaller jex are simply doing is accepting half that, so let's say 1.5c/l, however they are more than gaining it all back with higher solids.

The economics can be changed by a penalty on milk that skews the whole economics of it.

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

Was over at a friends house on sunday, milking 400+. Doesn't care what the bull calf makes at 10 days ould as long as he wont have to pay more than €5 for it to be taken away. The cost are then attributed to the heifer calf

He could get a rude awaking in a year or two this issue will come to a head next year. Glanbia is definately wary of it and other co-op will follow. As will we have a lot of baby formula factories here and they may be squimish as well

Muckit

Bass Reeves wrote: »

As will we have a lot of baby formula factories here and they may be squimish as well

We need to be very wary of this. Not so easy shield unsavoury practices from the consumer.

We need to protect our reputation and farming ethics.

Can u Imagine the slogans the vegan activists could be parading along the lines "killing babies to feed babies."

Keep Sluicing

K.G. wrote: »

If its who i think it is the cost of anything dosent seem to bother them

They are very tight on costs. No new machines. Always buy 5+ years old tractors. Build sheds themselves.

Bass Reeves

Muckit wrote: »

We need to be very wary of this. Not so easy shield unsavoury practices from the consumer.

We need to protect our reputation and farming ethics.

Can u Imagine the slogans the vegan activists could be parading along the lines "killing babies to feed babies."

lads have to look at the bigger picture. But Teagasc, the IFJ and other organisations hide there head in the sand until it is too late. market signals are there to be seen but lads are not being informed of them or are ignoring them

K.G.

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

They are very tight on costs. No new machines. Always buy 5+ years old tractors. Build sheds themselves.

Not the same crowd so

Mooooo

If every dairy farmer in the country went milking simmentals the same problem would still be there, too many cattle in the country allows factories to drop price. If the numbers fell they'd pay for whatever is out there

jaymla627

Bass Reeves wrote: »

lads have to look at the bigger picture. But Teagasc, the IFJ and other organisations hide there head in the sand until it is too late. market signals are there to be seen but lads are not being informed of them or are ignoring them

Facing up to them means having to spend a nice lump of cash on extra calf rearing facilities for animals that will then leave you with a 100 plus odd euro of a loss, our the other option of using proper beef bulls on your cows and breeding them a bit bigger leads to extra hassle calving them and more labour keeping a eye on them, calving is a breeze on these larger farms where alot of easy calving sires are used combined with cows breed to be easy care and the calving Jack is only pulled out for backward calves our a foot down

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

The way I see it, culls and calves are worth about 2.5 to 3c/l (that's say 600e for the cow and 50e for the calf), what the lads with the smaller jex are simply doing is accepting half that, so let's say 1.5c/l, however they are more than gaining it all back with higher solids.

Culls and calves amounted to more than thatchere this year ,don’t get the gaining it back with higher solids bit most well bred hol herds maximizing milk from grass etc etc are doing way more solids than your traditional x bred herds and also making a lot more from culls and calves

GrasstoMilk

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In theory yes buy all processor feedlots and contracted feedlots are feeding high ration diets the last 100 days with very little silage. In milk yes most lads have grass silage in the diet all the time



At present that is grand. In 2018 10k calves were slaughtered this year it will hit nearly 15K we are looking at a 45% increase. At a minimum for 2020 pencil in 20K unless there is a drastic change in calf demand. At present the government is jumping through hoops to export calves and looking at an option of walk on/off ferry to get over the rest period in Cherbourg.

Co-op's could penalize milk for bobby calf farms.



The economics can be changed by a penalty on milk that skews the whole economics of it.




He could get a rude awaking in a year or two this issue will come to a head next year. Glanbia is definately wary of it and other co-op will follow. As will we have a lot of baby formula factories here and they may be squimish as well

I never said my calves would be bobbied

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

How so? I'm.still going to keep breeding the same size 550kg cow we always have.
No Intention of breeding bigger HO's or adding another breed like fleck or montbelliard.
We never relied on cull cow price or calf price here, nothing has changed - for us any way.

On another thread they're wondering about if it's worth while buying land, if you're want to do it you'll do it. Simple as. If land came up in the morning that suited us we'd be on for it

Do u have the deposit sitting in your account ???im like u I’d love to buy if something next door came up but it’s nothing only a pipe dream without hard cash in account .id sell an out lock no problem but trying to line all those things up at same time not simple
You never relied on cull cow or calf price ???not buying it sorry

Bass Reeves

Mooooo wrote: »

If every dairy farmer in the country went milking simmentals the same problem would still be there, too many cattle in the country allows factories to drop price. If the numbers fell they'd pay for whatever is out there

The economics is not in rearing Jex calves and unless a fairly decent beef bull is used the other calves are very marginal for beef purposes. Even at 4/kg base a P+ grading JEX bullock killing 280 kgs leaves only about 1000 euro at present he is sub 900 euro. These low quality AA bull calves off them at 4/kg grading 0= killing 270 DW will come into 1100 euro with new QA bonus however at present they will only come into about 950 euro. The sums just do not add up on these calves unless we are at north of 4.5/kg when the suckler cow is profiable again.

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

Do u have the deposit sitting in your account ???im like u I’d love to buy if something next door came up but it’s nothing only a pipe dream without hard cash in account .id sell an out lock no problem but trying to line all those things up at same time not simple
You never relied on cull cow or calf price ???not buying it sorry

Selling an out block to buy land beside you is childs play compared to buying a farm, at the same time putting the one you have up for sale, not renewing any of he leases on the land you currently have taken, aswell as 4 children in school - while hoping the sale in the farm you are buying doesn't fall through (which it did) while trying to line up building a parlour, reseeding, fencing and watering on the one you have hopefully bought so that you can milk the cows on the place you're selling in the morning and milk them on the new farm that very evening 30 miles away
My parents been there done it all on the 5th of june 2004, lots of headaches but it was done, we will be looking to buy again in the near future, an out block if one that suits comes available
Alot of it done by the seat of there pants being honest but they did it.

Yes calf price never really focused on here, granted we have switched to a more friesan type cow but they're still small cow, when we had a predominantly crossbred herd you were just getting someone to take them for next to nothing, now you'll be looking at getting friesans taken for next to nothing

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Selling an out block to buy land beside you is childs play compared to buying a farm, at the same time putting the one you have up for sale, not renewing any of he leases on the land you currently have taken, aswell as 4 children in school - while hoping the sale in the farm you are buying doesn't fall through (which it did) while trying to line up building a parlour, reseeding, fencing and watering on the one you have hopefully bought so that you can milk the cows on the place you're selling in the morning and milk them on the new farm that very evening 30 miles away
My parents been there done it all on the 5th of june 2004, lots of headaches but it was done, we will be looking to buy again in the near future, an out block if one that suits comes available
Alot of it done by the seat of there pants being honest but they did it.

Yes calf price never really focused on here, granted we have switched to a more friesan type cow but they're still small cow, when we had a predominantly crossbred herd you were just getting someone to take them for next to nothing, now you'll be looking at getting friesans taken for next to nothing

I’d say 40 acres came up would u have 40 k cash for deposit ???,appreciate what your parents have done in past but buying land is far from as u put it child’s play different times now finance harder come by and repayments whikst developing ,putting on more cows is cash heavy
Solid customers here for calves most certainly won’t be going for next to nothing

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

I’d say 40 acres came up would u have 40 k cash for deposit ???,appreciate what your parents have done in past but buying land is far from as u put it child’s play different times now finance harder come by and repayments whikst developing ,putting on more cows is cash heavy
Solid customers here for calves most certainly won’t be going for next to nothing

You'd want more than 40k cash if going buying 40 acres, you'd want 100k any way. Finished expansion next year, money will be getting put aside to buy something, 5 years time is when we would be ready to go again. Goes by quick, I'm home 7 years next may.

How come you kept this years calves if you had customers?

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You'd want more than 40k cash if going buying 40 acres, you'd want 100k any way. Finished expansion next year, money will be getting put aside to buy something, 5 years time is when we would be ready to go again. Goes by quick, I'm home 7 years next may.

How come you kept this years calves if you had customers?

Fragmented land ,25 fr bulls gone in February any calves after March 17 sold .nice ball of money when sold weanlings last month won’t get rich on them but decent ball of notes at same time
100 k .....serious money and tonhave it in hard cash to cover solicitors fee ,stamp duty deposit etc wouldn’t have the colour of it here
I’d have no issue flogging an out block to acquire more land by parlour even if it meant a few less overall acres .fragmented land whilst grand to have it is a pain in the hole

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Selling an out block to buy land beside you is childs play compared to buying a farm, at the same time putting the one you have up for sale, not renewing any of he leases on the land you currently have taken, aswell as 4 children in school - while hoping the sale in the farm you are buying doesn't fall through (which it did) while trying to line up building a parlour, reseeding, fencing and watering on the one you have hopefully bought so that you can milk the cows on the place you're selling in the morning and milk them on the new farm that very evening 30 miles away
My parents been there done it all on the 5th of june 2004, lots of headaches but it was done, we will be looking to buy again in the near future, an out block if one that suits comes available
Alot of it done by the seat of there pants being honest but they did it.

Yes calf price never really focused on here, granted we have switched to a more friesan type cow but they're still small cow, when we had a predominantly crossbred herd you were just getting someone to take them for next to nothing, now you'll be looking at getting friesans taken for next to nothing

Calves especially dairy bred stock wont be given away that's going to be the issue going forward, Arla have a new policy where no bull calves can be slaughtered before 6 weeks old, if the dairy farmer gets cute and "sells" them to a beef farmer who then Bobbies them arla will suspend milk supplier as they have access live register and all birth and death info, realistically the calf issue is going to cost us probably north of 2 cent a litre on a years supply if beef price stays f**ked and Irish co-ops adopt a Arla type bull calf policy

Muckit

Won't be an issue that can be swept under the carpet too easily anyways.

Bord Bia clean image and sustainable this and that. Will there, or is there a section on auditors sheet about "what do you do with your calves?"

Say my name

Muckit wrote: »

Won't be an issue that can be swept under the carpet too easily anyways.

Bord Bia clean image and sustainable this and that. Will there, or is there a section on auditors sheet about "what do you do with your calves?"

I'd class myself as indifferent to the whole thing. Even though I aim to breed a good bull calf, I can see the other side too and efficiency of it.

Nobody thinks about their eggs when they do the weekly shop.
The male chick is sexed by some Asian and thrown into the grinder.
Even those free range organic red hens you see on social media. Those chicks go the same way and there's never a seconds thought on buying those eggs.

Maybe we've gone too far the hippy dippy route and life just isn't or never will be like that.
If you want the hippy dippy. You're going to have to pay a hippy dippy price.

Water John

Yes, the Asian guy is Japanese. They developed this and began sending trained guys all over the world after WW2.
Correct on the male chicks, it happens with male goats as well.

Don't think the dairy market would respond well to it though. It's a real problem that needs to be dealt with. The best option is for the male calf to have a value in the beef industry, a win/win.

Muckit

Say my name wrote: »

I'd class myself as indifferent to the whole thing. Even though I aim to breed a good bull calf, I can see the other side too and efficiency of it.

Nobody thinks about their eggs when they do the weekly shop.
The male chick is sexed by some Asian and thrown into the grinder.
Even those free range organic red hens you see on social media. Those chicks go the same way and there's never a seconds thought on buying those eggs.

Maybe we've gone too far the hippy dippy route and life just isn't or never will be like that.
If you want the hippy dippy. You're going to have to pay a hippy dippy price.

Are ye QA?

Say my name

Muckit wrote: »

Are ye QA?

Naturally with Bord bia.
Ever more stringent regulations for a world market price.

We'll have to pay to farm in this country soon..

Muckit

Sure us beef farmers being doing it for time immemorial.