The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Bridge93 wrote: »

To a certain extent the GAA are al ittle hamstrung by it all.

Unless more money comes out of the sky then the only way to even funding between counties is remove from Dublin and give to others. But this, given dublin's population size, ends with kids in Dublin then receiving less funding per head than in other counties (and sure we all know its equality everyone is after...).
Where to get more money from i dont know. People whinge about tv deals and stuff so they cant win there. People whinge about games being played in Croke Park so cant win there. Would be nice to hear some ideas as to where the cash will come from? Unless of course it is just remove it from Dublin and to hell with the kids there.

Really the only truly 'fair' way the GAA can go is 32/64 whatever number of equally sized areas with equal funding and go from there but that destroys what the GAA stands for and will never succeed. Also this idea of 'fair' in all means seems to be unique to intercounty GAA. Its not even debated at club level to this extent. Dont hear of it in other sports.
The logistical nightmare of deciding along what grounds areas are deemed to be 'fair' or 'equal' doesnt bare thinking about. Is it size/population/playing population? Is it reevaluated every few years for changes and then new area boundaries set? Is Dublin split in 8 one year and cork in 4 and then dublin 6 another year and cork in 3?

The GAA need to look at how the funding is applied. Maybe now that Dublin is successful the reduce the funding and move that funding to somewhere else to help them, Dublin could probably the replace the funding through sponsorship. Only a suggestion. Is there are a template for applying for the funding or is it just given out based on how many clubs or players in each club? A fairer way maybe to introduce a model similar the to sports grants that clubs can apply for from the Goverment, in that they must submit a detail plan on what the money will be used for and it must only be used for that and then this reviewed by whatever GAA committee or group that looks after it and the funding is then given out.

The other issue is the movement of people from the country side to the cities, there is nothing the GAA can do about that, unless they pay the players.

rm75 wrote: »

No playing field is level. If it was there would have been an equal spread of winners throughout history. There isnt. How have Kerry won as many all irelands as they have ?

Various reasons but none of them include unfair advantages like financial doping, massive population and home pitch advantage.

rm75 wrote: »

You've decided to focus on the advantages Dublin may have while ignoring the advantages others have.

Dublin are the only team with meaningful advantages in the current setup.

rm75 wrote: »

N

Again your problem isn't that a county is dominating or indeed are you really bothered as to the reasons for that. Your problem is that county is Dublin.

No my problem is that a county are unfairly advantaged versus everyone else. The fact it is Dublin is irrelevant- for instance, if anyone else was engaged in financial doping of the sort that Dublin have been engaged in for the last 15 years I would criticise them too.

rm75 wrote: »

If you came on here and suggested 32 different franchises with the exact same populations and exact same funding (which is the natural end point of your argument) i'd take you seriously. Given you wont the only reasonable conclusion one can make is you are anti dublin and only care that they dont win. How that is achieved doesnt interest you.

I'm pro- Gaelic Games, not anti-Dublin. I want to see Dublin split to help ensure the survival of Gaelic Football at inter-county level.

naughtb4 wrote: »

Cork have 5x the population of Waterford?
Galways has 7x the population of Leitrim?

Do they have an unfair advantage there?

When population is mentioned at what point is it "fair"?

Hard to say as it's impossible to do real life experiments on this. But generally, the larger the potential player pool, the bigger the advantage- very few sparsely populated counties have won footballing All- Irelands.

But Dublin have clearly achieved critical mass here and are benefiting from their population- if you split their population in half they would still be more than the next largest county.

I previously was only in favour of splitting Dublin in two but because of their financial doping and the long term residual effects that it will have, a 4 way split would now be fairer.

tritium wrote: »

As opposed to Munster, which went to the dogs about a century ago and hasn’t come back yet...

Munster has some semblance of competition- Cork and Kerry, one third of the teams.

Leinster has absolutely none at the moment.

Gaelic games are thriving in Munster generally albeit it is mostly hurling.

No team in Munster benefits from the financial doping that Dublin do though, so it's not a like with like comparison.

tritium wrote: »

Why is it a crisis when dublin are doing well provincially and in AIs but not a problem when Kerry are?

Because Dublin are financially doping and also have other advantages, Kerry and other teams don't. As I've explained many times, it's not just the outcomes, but also the fact Dublin are unfairly advantaged.

tritium wrote: »

How many people cared about dublin doing well on Leinster pre 2011?

The financial doping started in earnest in the mid 2000s. There had been calls to split Dublin based on population alone in the early 2000s as well.

tritium wrote: »

How will splitting dublin do anything to make the game “fairer” if youre from say Leitrim?

The team currently benefiting from all the unfair advantages will no longer do so- it will instead be dispersed among 4 different Dublin teams and thus make the competition as a whole more fair and competitive (and also benefit Dublin by allowing more players to challenge for Sam Maguire).

tritium wrote: »

What do you propose to do to balance out Kerry’s historic dominance, which has been more pronounced than Dublin’s?

As above- Dublin are financially doping and also have other advantages, Kerry and other teams don't. As I've explained many times, it's not just the outcomes, but also the fact Dublin are unfairly advantaged.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2jIsU_gQB1/?igshid=vsdg8c8ygxk

gaffer91 wrote: »

One good thing about the financially doped Dublin juggernaut winning five in a row is that it seems to have concentrated mainstream media minds about how big a problem it is that they are winning from such an unfairly advantaged position. This is fantastic as it has mostly been ignored by them for the last many years.

Just this week we had the primetime piece and below are just some of the articles I've come across- all from fairly well regarded, balanced voices. Don't agree with everything said, especially a lot of Colm O'Rourke's piece but it's great to see more and more people coming to the conclusion that Dublin will need to be split.

Do the Boys in Blue have an unfair advantage in the GAA?

SPLIT THE CAPITAL ‘The division of Dublin needs to be seriously examined’ – Meath legend Colm O’Rourke calls for action from the GAA

Dublin’s success owes more to population than funding
Climbing population levels in the capital are creating an existential crisis for the GAA


Kevin McStay: If Dublin win six will the GAA see it as a problem?

So it appears it is not just the Dublin bogeyman of Ewan Mackenna talking about it now.

gaffer91 wrote: »

As above- Dublin are financially doping and also have other advantages, Kerry and other teams don't. As I've explained many times, it's not just the outcomes, but also the fact Dublin are unfairly advantaged.

Dublin are not financially doped. Not one single cent.
You have zero evidence of it and repeatedly fail to provide same. All you are capable of doing is copying and pasting something cribbed from twitter which proves nothing. Repeat ad nauseum.

They have zero unfair advantages. Not one single unfair advantage. They have not acted unfairly.

Splitting Dublin is the defeatist idea of a loser mentality. It is pathetic. It would be laughed at and riduculed in soccer, rugby or cricket and rightly so. And deserves the same treatment in GAA as the philosophy of losers.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Various reasons but none of them include unfair advantages like financial doping, massive population and home pitch advantage.



Dublin are the only team with meaningful advantages in the current setup.

So little things over the years like backhand payments from sponsors or indeed more developed legitimate sponsorship and fundraising channels are fine and it’s ok that they have helped to push one or two teams ahead to a point they won’t be caught? I’m struggling to be honest to understand your definition of equality.

No my problem is that a county are unfairly advantaged versus everyone else. The fact it is Dublin is irrelevant- for instance, if anyone else was engaged in financial doping of the sort that Dublin have been engaged in for the last 15 years I would criticise them too.

See above so, when a team can pull three quarter of a million odd quid from a US fundraiser then they’re clearly financially ahead also. When a team can have a sponsor write a cheque for a large portion of the center of excellence they’re building they’re clearly financially ahead also. Do you think Leitrim have that luxury? Westmeath?

I'm pro- Gaelic Games, not anti-Dublin. I want to see Dublin split to help ensure the survival of Gaelic Football at inter-county level.

Very noble. Tell us so how your plan will stop the financially dopedKerry juggernaut that’s won 81 Munster titles? Tell us how your plan will make Leitrim a footballing force and a contender for an AI title. Because if it doesn’t it’s just hot air being used to keep the flames of the previous status quo alive

Hard to say as it's impossible to do real life experiments on this. But generally, the larger the potential player pool, the bigger the advantage- very few sparsely populated counties have won footballing All- Irelands.

But Dublin have clearly achieved critical mass here and are benefiting from their population- if you split their population in half they would still be more than the next largest county.

Not hard to do at all. We have ample evidence from a range of international sport. The All Blacks in rugby, from a country of roughly 5 million, who managed to consistently top the pile with innovation and ability. India in cricket, who despite a population of 1 billion and an interest in the sport are far from dominant. Netherlands in soccer, West Indies in cricket, Jamaica in athletics, China in soccer in spite of strong interest,.......

I previously was only in favour of splitting Dublin in two but because of their financial doping and the long term residual effects that it will have, a 4 way split would now be fairer.

Why given all of the points above (more longer term cases of financial doping, population not being directly linked to sporting success conclusively....

Munster has some semblance of competition- Cork and Kerry, one third of the teams.

81 titles- 81 out of 131- 62%of titles won by one team. Don’t you feel even remotely embarrassed typing that?

Competition my ass

Leinster has absolutely none at the moment.

Munster has never had any

Gaelic games are thriving in Munster generally albeit it is mostly hurling.

No team in Munster benefits from the financial doping that Dublin do though, so it's not a like with like comparison.

There’s been a far longer disparity and financial mismatch in Munster. Again, how do you propose in your quest for fairness to ensure Leitrim or Waterford have a good chance of a football AI?

Because Dublin are financially doping and also have other advantages, Kerry and other teams don't. As I've explained many times, it's not just the outcomes, but also the fact Dublin are unfairly advantaged.



The financial doping started in earnest in the mid 2000s. There had been calls to split Dublin based on population alone in the early 2000s as well.

As above, population is a red herring. How do you propose to address the legacy of financial and administrative doping in Munster? It’s been a footballing wasteland for some counties for over a century. Given you’ve only had to worry about dublin since the end of the noughties I’m sure you’ve plans and ideas that you devised prior to that to deal with the Kerry problem. Maybe share them with us all?

The team currently benefiting from all the unfair advantages will no longer do so- it will instead be dispersed among 4 different Dublin teams and thus make the competition as a whole more fair and competitive (and also benefit Dublin by allowing more players to challenge for Sam Maguire).

Same plan for Kerry given the above?

As above- Dublin are financially doping and also have other advantages, Kerry and other teams don't. As I've explained many times, it's not just the outcomes, but also the fact Dublin are unfairly advantaged.

But as I’ve demonstrated above, Kerry have also been advantaged, for quite some time. Given the duration of this problem fixing it would seem to be a priority, since doing something about dublin will just perpetuate the previous historic imbalances. I’m sure you don’t want that, do you?

TrueGael wrote: »

Thats like Bury FC (RIP) going to Man City to copy their methods or the local corner shop asking Tesco or Dunnes on what the magic sauce is........


Make no mistake the continued collapse in attendances in the GAAs golden goose will eventually force the split, its a matter of when not if

Any timelines or is this speculation and/or hope?

TrueGael wrote: »

The idea of a third of the population fielding one team in a 32 team competition and rhat team getting all the funding, professional backroom team and every game at home would have them splitting themselves

Imagine Man Utd having every game at Old Trafford.............

For the umpteenth time, ' all the other clubs in Leinster could vote Dublin out of Croker every year.'
But they won't.
I wonder why!

TrueGael wrote: »

The idea of a third of the population fielding one team in a 32 team competition and rhat team getting all the funding, professional backroom team and every game at home would have them splitting themselves

Imagine Man Utd having every game at Old Trafford.............

How many times do you propose to split Dublin? Then what other counties must be split I.e., Cork etc in order for a level playing field with smaller counties?

odyssey06 wrote: »

India at cricket has greater population than all the other serious cricket countries combined. Massive population imbalances in soccer and rugby. Uruguay dont whinge about splitting Brazil in Copa America even though their population is 45% of S America.
Its a laughable defeatist cowardly mentality behind the idea of splitting.

Man Utd play at Old Trafford in front of 90 percent of their own fans. Neutral games there are rare.
Not remotely comparable to when Dublin play in Croke Park. Kerry and Mayo have played there in many times before against Dublin and others, in a city with a large number of their own fans resident.

Dublin and Kerry received equal allocations for the AI games... Dublin have home pitch advantage but it is nothing like true home advantage in rugby or soccer games.

Before the days before HQ moved ye there permanently , you'd have a leg to stand on but that is a decade gone now of the same ground and routine so you dont

Man U only play half of their league games half of their European games there so again level playing field that doesnt exist here.

It isnt feasible to expect much poorer economy wise counties on the West Coast to bring any where near the same crowd to your ground when they have to pay big travel costs and long journeys to get there as well as tiny fractions of population so more nonsense

TrueGael wrote: »

Before the days before HQ moved ye there permanently , you'd have a leg to stand on but that is a decade gone now of the same ground and routine so you dont
Man U only play half of their league games half of their European games there so again level playing field that doesnt exist here.
It isnt feasible to expect much poorer economy wise counties on the West Coast to bring any where near the same crowd to your ground when they have to pay big travel costs and long journeys to get there as well as tiny fractions of population so more nonsense

What is the % ticket allocation for Man Utd fans when they play at Old Trafford in the competitions listed?
What was the % ticket allocation for Dublin's games v Mayo and Kerry?
How many times have Mayo and Kerry played in Croke Park in last 5 years.
Come on. Answer up.

Ah the poor folk of Kerry. Did they not take up their 13000 allocated tickets for the AI final cos they spent 7 million euros on their centre of excellence? Did they heck.

The GAA could never have afforded to redevelop Croke Park and provide capital grants to fund stadia around the country, if the Dublin fans werent on Hill 16 but in some new Dublin home ground.
Thats the real world reason why Dublin play there. Its not an unfair advantage conspired at by Dublin.

odyssey06 wrote: »

What is the % ticket allocation for Man Utd fans when they play at Old Trafford in the competitions listed?
What was the % ticket allocation for Dublin's games v Mayo and Kerry?
How many times have Mayo and Kerry played in Croke Park in last 5 years.
Come on. Answer up.

Ah the poor folk of Kerry. Did they not take up their 13000 allocated tickets for the AI final cos they spent 7 million euros on their centre of excellence? Did they heck.

The GAA could never have afforded to redevelop Croke Park and provide capital grants to fund stadia around the country, if the Dublin fans werent on Hill 16 but in some new Dublin home ground.
Thats the real world reason why Dublin play there. Its not an unfair advantage conspired at by Dublin.

A handful of times compared the golden child, particularly for the many young players on those particular 2 teams who dont get to acclimatised to the surroundings with 4/5 league games and doddle Leinster Championship "games" and instead have to adjust on the fly in high pressure occasions

Ye dont turn up to games anymore, empty seats abound so thats another myth that doesn't hold up anymore (again mid 00s and youd be correct but not anymore)

Saw this on twitter today, interesting reading. When it was agreed to increase funding to Dublin in ‘02 it was done so with the intention of splitting Dublin. Tommy Lyons, Dublin manager at the time hadn’t any issue with it.

https://martinwynne.home.blog/2019/09/17/the-gaa-strategic-review-why-was-it-not-fully-implemented/

Have never advocated Dublin being split myself, just wanted to see funding imbalances sorted. Do think it may be too late now even if funding were to be sorted tomorrow.

TrueGael wrote: »

Thats like Bury FC (RIP) going to Man City to copy their methods or the local corner shop asking Tesco or Dunnes on what the magic sauce is........


Make no mistake the continued collapse in attendances in the GAAs golden goose will eventually force the split, its a matter of when not if

Except that they are not collapsing in the way that you think.

Attendances are way above the Kerry era, when even Kerry people didn’t travel for finals. Dubs are still filling Croke Park on finals day.

Bonniedog wrote: »

It is a good forum and I post about many aspects of GAA. I don't think you have ever even indicated what county man you are? Or posted about their teams?

Would guess that he’s from the Kingdom.