The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

TrueGael

omega man wrote: »

But there is a clear attack from many (not you). It’s starts off by well done to dublin but...and ends with financial doping or an asterisk beside our AIs etc.

3 days after we won an historic 5 in a row and RTE run a primetime piece on Dublin funding. Seriously, why??!!

When exactly should they do the report? Now is the only logical timeline

Rugby will dominate sporting headlines the next week and Brexit and the Border will dominate the current affairs

omega man

TrueGael wrote: »

Because we all fund your phalanx of professional underage coaches it allows the AIG Subaru Ballygowan Aer Lingus money be injected into creating a professional IC setup ( altitude chambers and the like which makes a strong team unbeatable)

If ye wanted to remain wholly organic, ye could have but instead opted to buy sports science facilities light years ahead of the competition and make the whole thing hollow and meaningless

You’re actually just making stuff up now.

omega man

TrueGael wrote: »

When exactly should they do the report? Now is the only logical timeline

Rugby will dominate sporting headlines the next week and Brexit and the Border will dominate the current affairs

Do the report when they have all of the facts gathered by themselves maybe! It’s primetime after all....

threeball

rm75 wrote: »

Its almost not worth engaging so ill informed is the commentry. We'd regularly have a panel member at club fundraisers.

Where do Limerick train?

I'll just leave this here

https://www.dcu.ie/dcusport/high_performance.shtml

threeball

Or maybe this never happened but the willingness was there to hand it all over for free plus a few quid to see them on their way

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/national-sports-campus-set-to-be-dublins-new-training-base-381256.html

rm75

threeball wrote: »

I'll just leave this here

https://www.dcu.ie/dcusport/high_performance.shtml

I'll leave this here

https://limerickgaa.ie/limerick-gaa-and-lit-sign-10-year-partnership/

threeball

rm75 wrote: »

I'll leave this here

https://limerickgaa.ie/limerick-gaa-and-lit-sign-10-year-partnership/

I never said Limerick didn't use the facilities in UL. You said Dublin didn't train in DCU and called me ill informed and not worth debating. I think it shows the calibre of your arguments when you're prepared to lie and deflect from easily verifiable facts. Its been your modus operandi all through the thread.

TrueGael

omega man wrote: »

You’re actually just making stuff up now.

Ah the old ad hominem attacks rather than actually counter anything I said.

Dont blame me for the DCB deciding to take the easy option and buy "success" rather than doing it the right way

bruschi

omega man wrote: »

Some fair points in your argument @bruschi but my point on population was that the funding should be based on population if the aim is to increase participation but on the flip side shouldn’t be used against us as a metric for our current success, just like saying China should be a top team in soccer based on their population resources.
Of course at some point if participation growth is significant then yes funds should be based on clubs/registered players on a par with other counties.

but I hope you at least see the contradiction in that. And forgive me for paraphrasing, but

you state that Dublins success shouldnt have their vast advantage of population used as a way of saying it is an advantage as not everyone plays

but then say that they should receive their funding allocation based on their vast population.

If population is not an advantage, because their registered numbers actually playing are similar to Cork, then they should receive funding similar to other counties on a registered player per head. I understand the point you make but it is looking for both sides of the argument to be in favour.

It should also be noted, that money didnt win all this for Dublin. It absolutely was a huge contribution, but there are many other factors involved too and I certainly dont agree with the financial doping phrase nor saying they bought their titles. And again, this is not Dublins fault. This is solely at the hand of the GAA. If the GAA went to a county with a whole new coaching strategic plan for long term development, of course a county will take that up. The fault being that they only allowed this happen in one county, that one already being the one with the most financial resources, best infrastructure in clubs, biggest population and historically one of the biggest counties with football tradition has us where all this has now ended up.

rm75

threeball wrote: »

I never said Limerick didn't use the facilities in UL. You said Dublin didn't train in DCU and called me ill informed and not worth debating. I think it shows the calibre of your arguments when you're prepared to lie and deflect from easily verifiable facts. Its been your modus operandi all through the thread.

No i didnt, i said they didnt train in UCD. You've been making stuff up all thread but given posters can go back and read at least may some sort of effort to conceal your lies.

omega man

bruschi wrote: »

but I hope you at least see the contradiction in that. And forgive me for paraphrasing, but

you state that Dublins success shouldnt have their vast advantage of population used as a way of saying it is an advantage as not everyone plays

but then say that they should receive their funding allocation based on their vast population.

If population is not an advantage, because their registered numbers actually playing are similar to Cork, then they should receive funding similar to other counties on a registered player per head. I understand the point you make but it is looking for both sides of the argument to be in favour.

It should also be noted, that money didnt win all this for Dublin. It absolutely was a huge contribution, but there are many other factors involved too and I certainly dont agree with the financial doping phrase nor saying they bought their titles. And again, this is not Dublins fault. This is solely at the hand of the GAA. If the GAA went to a county with a whole new coaching strategic plan for long term development, of course a county will take that up. The fault being that they only allowed this happen in one county, that one already being the one with the most financial resources, best infrastructure in clubs, biggest population and historically one of the biggest counties with football tradition has us where all this has now ended up.

Your contributions are balanced in fairness but what I’m saying is that to increase games participation at the time (that was the goal of DCB and GAA was it not?) in the capital then the funding had to reflect population and not existing clubs or registered players. OK maybe that’s not required now (I’d argue it still is) and that funding should be in line with registered players etc.

However on the other hand you can’t say we’ve won AIs because we have a huge population. Anyone with any knowledge of dublin gaa knows that even today It’s still struggling to survive let alone grow in many high population areas. Whatever about participation figures you just need to look at the core support for our footballers (never mind the hurlers) which I reckon is around 10-15K but yet there’s close to 1.5m living in Dublin.

bruschi

omega man wrote: »

Your contributions are balanced in fairness but what I’m saying is that to increase games participation at the time (that was the goal of DCB and GAA was it not?) in the capital then the funding had to reflect population and not existing clubs or registered players. OK maybe that’s not required now (I’d argue it still is) and that funding should be in line with registered players etc.

However on the other hand you can’t say we’ve won AIs because we have a huge population. Anyone with any knowledge of dublin gaa knows that even today It’s still struggling to survive let alone grow in many high population areas. Whatever about participation figures you just need to look at the core support for our footballers (never mind the hurlers) which I reckon is around 10-15K but yet there’s close to 1.5m living in Dublin.

I understand the point, I just dont think I'd agree with it. We have a huge population, so want to increase the playing numbers. Yet our huge population has no impact on an advantage of playing numbers.

the funding too is directly apportioned to clubs. It is, in the main, for clubs to have full time coaches to develop coaching infrastructure for the future of a club. Included in this would be for increased participation and working with schools within the clubs catchment area. So on one hand it is for the "general population" but more importantly, it is for the club. Realistically, the only way to measure its success is by increased playing numbers and registered players, which is why I believe the rate should be on per head of members, rather than per head of population.

A frequently used argument by Dublin supporters about population is that there are huge areas of Dubin and huge numbers of specific people for one reason or the other who dont or will never play GAA or who have no input into GAA. But yet these heads are included in the population rate of funding.

omega man

Dublin’s strength and conditioning training was done in the National Athletic Development Academy and they used DCU’s pitches in St Clare’s Glasnevin. Not sure that’s still the case though...

omega man

bruschi wrote: »

I understand the point, I just dont think I'd agree with it. We have a huge population, so want to increase the playing numbers. Yet our huge population has no impact on an advantage of playing numbers.

the funding too is directly apportioned to clubs. It is, in the main, for clubs to have full time coaches to develop coaching infrastructure for the future of a club. Included in this would be for increased participation and working with schools within the clubs catchment area. So on one hand it is for the "general population" but more importantly, it is for the club. Realistically, the only way to measure its success is by increased playing numbers and registered players, which is why I believe the rate should be on per head of members, rather than per head of population.

A frequently used argument by Dublin supporters about population is that there are huge areas of Dubin and huge numbers of specific people for one reason or the other who dont or will never play GAA or who have no input into GAA. But yet these heads are included in the population rate of funding.

But how do we ever get the kids in those areas playing our sport? What’s the solution or do people not care (not directed at you)? You’d swear the money was been thrown at competing sports, it’s staying within the gaa!

bruschi

omega man wrote: »

But how do we ever get the kids in those areas playing our sport? What’s the solution or do people not care (not directed at you)? You’d swear the money was been thrown at competing sports, it’s staying within the gaa!

Again, I have no issue what was done.

However I have a huge issue that this was only done, and only available to one out of 32 counties. It is being incrementally corrected, albeit in my opinion at least 10 years too late and in most cases, about 15 years too late. And it also still is not available to the majority of the counties in Ireland.

Its great to get more kids playing, its great to have top class coaching resources to hand. But why is it only in one county, where in the clubs where this happens there is resources there that the club can actually cope without any additional funding to cover these costs.

kyote00

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/colm-orourke-dublin-dont-get-enough-funding-and-why-gaa-punditry-needs-figures-like-joe-brolly-38509226.html

TrueGael wrote: »

Bravo Bruschi

This paragraph should be pinned to the top of every page of this thread as it perfectly exposes the hypocrisy and duplicitous nature of the AIG propagandists who want it every way and feck the rest to oblivion

'Qu'ils mangent de la brioche'

omega man

TrueGael wrote: »

Bravo Bruschi

This paragraph should be pinned to the top of every page of this thread as it perfectly exposes the hypocrisy and duplicitous nature of the AIG propagandists who want it every way and feck the rest to oblivion

'Qu'ils mangent de la brioche'

You clearly didn’t understand the point.

omega man

bruschi wrote: »

Again, I have no issue what was done.

However I have a huge issue that this was only done, and only available to one out of 32 counties. It is being incrementally corrected, albeit in my opinion at least 10 years too late and in most cases, about 15 years too late. And it also still is not available to the majority of the counties in Ireland.

Its great to get more kids playing, its great to have top class coaching resources to hand. But why is it only in one county, where in the clubs where this happens there is resources there that the club can actually cope without any additional funding to cover these costs.

I agree but that’s not a Dublin problem.

I do imagine though that the GAA saw Dublins population as an untapped resource of future expansion of the game. For the most part the GAA is embedded in local culture outside of Dublin.

bruschi

kyote00 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/colm-orourke-dublin-dont-get-enough-funding-and-why-gaa-punditry-needs-figures-like-joe-brolly-38509226.html

selective quoting?

After watching Dublin make history, O'Rourke insisted that they are underfunded in coaching terms for a county of their size but believes the time will come when the GAA will have to consider splitting the county.

"I think the future of Dublin has to be what I have been saying for a long time - there is going to have to be a division.

"People talk about funding, I don't think Dublin are over-funded, in fact I think they're under-funded because the funding goes to the development of clubs and that's the most important thing of all."

O Rourke thinks Dublin should be split.

kyote00

The funding per club by county show thats Dublin clubs don't get anymore funding....

Answer this one question:
Do you agree that Dublin got approx 928 euro , in total funding , per club in 2018 ?

bruschi wrote: »

Again, I have no issue what was done.

However I have a huge issue that this was only done, and only available to one out of 32 counties. It is being incrementally corrected, albeit in my opinion at least 10 years too late and in most cases, about 15 years too late. And it also still is not available to the majority of the counties in Ireland.

Its great to get more kids playing, its great to have top class coaching resources to hand. But why is it only in one county, where in the clubs where this happens there is resources there that the club can actually cope without any additional funding to cover these costs.

kyote00

No issue with the split myself.

bruschi wrote: »

selective quoting?



O Rourke thinks Dublin should be split.

tritium

omega man wrote: »

But there is a clear attack from many (not you). It’s starts off by well done to dublin but...and ends with financial doping or an asterisk beside our AIs etc.

3 days after we won an historic 5 in a row and RTE run a primetime piece on Dublin funding. Seriously, why??!!

The whole asterisk against Dublin’s AI’s thing is frankly a load of ****e. There isn’t one, simple as, any more than the wads of cash adidas gave them or the lopsided set up in that created an annual procession in Munster would put one against the ones Kerry won through the years

kyote00

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/mayo-the-big-spenders-this-graph-breaks-down-each-countys-costs-in-2016-35458592.html

bruschi

omega man wrote: »

I agree but that’s not a Dublin problem.

I do imagine though that the GAA saw Dublins population as an untapped resource of future expansion of the game. For the most part the GAA is embedded in local culture outside of Dublin.

and as I said in my very post post to you, I have at no stage ever blamed Dublin for this in any shape or form. I shouldnt have to re-emphasise, but I will, this is the GAA's fault.

Expanding the game in Dublin is all well and good, but expanding such a huge population with still the one end team doesnt make sense in a competition based set up.

There are huge issues outside of Dublin in rural parts that would love to have a small segment of the finances or resources that Dublin clubs have. As a very small example, our club are dual senior, so if we won both, would be up against say Kilmcud Crokes. What the Crokes take in one year of underage registration fees, would take my club over 100 years to get. We are chalk and cheese, but yet compete in the same competition. Yes, you have the likes of Mullinalaghta who had a superb odds against win over them, but it isnt sustainable long term to have such unbalanced competitions in terms of numbers and resources. Ultimately, the whole intercounty competition is a terrible template of a set up. But that will never change.

Every club and county has its problems, with playing numbers, societal, rural/urban, employment etc. However only one county has been receiving far greater than all others to help combat this.

bruschi

kyote00 wrote: »

The funding per club by county show thats Dublin clubs don't get anymore funding....

Answer this one question:
Do you agree that Dublin got approx 928 euro , in total funding , per club in 2018 ?

they arent club numbers you are using. You are using teams entered in county competitions.

So no, I absolutely do not agree with your figures and you have posted this numerous times and it is completely wrong. You are also putting in capital funding which does not benefit or go directly to clubs.

so in all, that graph couldnt be more misleading if you tried.

Hammer Archer

kyote00 wrote: »

The funding per club by county show thats Dublin clubs don't get anymore funding....

Answer this one question:
Do you agree that Dublin got approx 928 euro , in total funding , per club in 2018 ?

Where are you getting those club numbers? They're way off!

omega man

bruschi wrote: »

and as I said in my very post post to you, I have at no stage ever blamed Dublin for this in any shape or form. I shouldnt have to re-emphasise, but I will, this is the GAA's fault.

Expanding the game in Dublin is all well and good, but expanding such a huge population with still the one end team doesnt make sense in a competition based set up.

There are huge issues outside of Dublin in rural parts that would love to have a small segment of the finances or resources that Dublin clubs have. As a very small example, our club are dual senior, so if we won both, would be up against say Kilmcud Crokes. What the Crokes take in one year of underage registration fees, would take my club over 100 years to get. We are chalk and cheese, but yet compete in the same competition. Yes, you have the likes of Mullinalaghta who had a superb odds against win over them, but it isnt sustainable long term to have such unbalanced competitions in terms of numbers and resources. Ultimately, the whole intercounty competition is a terrible template of a set up. But that will never change.

Every club and county has its problems, with playing numbers, societal, rural/urban, employment etc. However only one county has been receiving far greater than all others to help combat this.

My old club, Crokes. I’ve in-laws in Mulllinalaghta too so I see both sides of the coin!

tritium

gaffer91 wrote: »

I was thinking the same, the number of clubs per county is hilariously inaccurate!

Look we're going around in circles again.

Key points:

1. Dublin have received and continue to receive millions more in funding than every other county. Both from the GAA, from the government of the 2000s, from their sponsors. No-one else can compete with this.

2. As money matters in sport, this funding has helped them win more titles than would otherwise have been possible. Gormdubhgorm and Gachla have posted some charts showing an absolute explosion in Dublin titles since 2000 relative to the period before then.

3. Dublin also have other advantages- population and playing all consequential games in their de facto home pitch.


All of this is well established. So, this thread shouldn't even really be about whether Dublin are unfairly favoured, it should be what the GAA can do to help manage this problem before it destroys the All Ireland series as a competitive spectacle. Look at how Leinster has gone to the dogs since the financial doping started (combined with other factors including the other unfair advantages mentioned in point 3)- we're already well down that path for the All Ireland championship.

As mentioned before, I think the only effective measure will be to split their inter- county team into 4.

As opposed to Munster, which went to the dogs about a century ago and hasn’t come back yet...

Why is it a crisis when dublin are doing well provincially and in AIs but not a problem when Kerry are?

How many people cared about dublin doing well on Leinster pre 2011?

How will splitting dublin do anything to make the game “fairer” if youre from say Leitrim?

What do you propose to do to balance out Kerry’s historic dominance, which has been more pronounced than Dublin’s?

TrueGael

221 clubs in Longford !!!

Goebbels isn't a patch on this crowd.................

Marty Xavier

Bernard Brogan, Superstar, looks like a woman cause he wears a bra.
The bra's too big,
He wears a wig
And that's what you call a sexy pig.