Marian Finucane Thread

dxhound2005 · 08-09-2019 2:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As I’m English, I’d like to make one short comment

In the Sunday Times today on P2 -, “Varadkar said, ‘...not what you’d expect from the Mother of all parliaments’.

I always thought that the usual sobriquet was, “the Mother of Parliaments”. Maybe Leo is confusing it with, “the Mother of all F*ck Ups”

Wikipedia sides with Leo.

The most famous parliament is probably the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which is sometimes called the "Mother of all Parliaments". The word "parliament" comes from the French word parler, which means a talk.

blinding · 08-09-2019 2:21pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is no guarantee how any seats will fall, but you have concluded that there will be a majority for the Johnson version of Brexit. 50 plus anti Brexit Scottish seats in Westminster makes that much less likely.

We need a General election to find out . Why are re-moaners running and hiding ?

dxhound2005 · 08-09-2019 2:26pm

blinding wrote: »

We need a General election to find out . Why are re-moaners running and hiding ?

A third referendum would be more useful. Brexiteers never accepted the result of the first one in the 1970's.

Nobody could convince me that if they had lost 48/52 in 2016, that they would not be out straight away looking for another one.

blinding · 08-09-2019 2:29pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A third referendum would be more useful. Brexiteers never accepted the result of the first one in the 1970's.

Nobody could convince me that if they had lost 48/52 in 2016, that they would not be out straight away looking for another one.

There is no way this parliament of MPs should be allowed to call for another referendum without facing a General Election first . They badly need the Verdict of the Electorate before they make any decisions . They are a rum lot :eek:

dxhound2005 · 08-09-2019 2:33pm

blinding wrote: »

There is no way this parliament of MPs should be allowed to call for another referendum without facing a General Election first . They badly need the Verdict of the Electorate before they make any decisions . They are a rum lot :eek:

We did it here for Lisbon. If the first result had been allowed stand we would have been forced to leave the EU.

Every other member state ratified Lisbon through their representative democracies. A snapshot of the electorate should not be given the chance to decide such big issues for all time. 37% of those entitled to vote in the UK went for Brexit.

If the Conservatives or another party had campaigned for Brexit, and got a majority, fair enough. But a Yes/No referendum is not the way to decide something which takes thousands of pages of text to explain.

blinding · 08-09-2019 2:35pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

We did it here for Lisbon. If the first result had been allowed stand we would have been forced to leave the EU.

Every other member state ratified Lisbon through their representative democracies. A snapshot of the electorate should not be given the chance to decide such big issues for all time. 37% of those entitled to vote in the UK went for Brexit.

If the Conservatives or another party had campaigned for Brexit, and got a majority, fair enough. But a Yes/No referendum is not the way to decide something which takes thousands of pages of text to explain.

Its obvious that the Electorate need to give their verdict on this Parliament of MPs .

08-09-2019 2:41pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Wikipedia sides with Leo.

The most famous parliament is probably the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which is sometimes called the "Mother of all Parliaments". The word "parliament" comes from the French word parler, which means a talk.

I stand corrected. So much for Grammar School education! I still think it’s the mother of all f*ck ups, though!

Ahwell · 08-09-2019 2:57pm

blinding wrote: »

Shooting the messenger that does not agree with your view .

What? There was no shooting of any messenger. All the opposition parties are open to an election once a bill to ban a no-deal exit is in place and it can no longer be scuppered by Boris. To say they are "running/hiding" from an election is disingenuous.

Callan57 · 08-09-2019 7:11pm

blinding wrote: »

We need a General election to find out . Why are re-moaners running and hiding ?

Maybe for the same reason the Leavers are running & hiding from giving the people the option to change their mind now that they know they were lied to repeatedly :rolleyes:

blinding · 08-09-2019 11:31pm

Callan57 wrote: »

Maybe for the same reason the Leavers are running & hiding from giving the people the option to change their mind now that they know they were lied to repeatedly :rolleyes:

If in the unlikely event re-moaners win a General Election they can present legislation for another referendum if they so please . If they continue to run and hide from the electorate then they can hardly expect any respect .

Dan Jaman · 09-09-2019 12:49am

blinding wrote: »

Labour and the Liberal Democrats will never form a pact . It ain’t going to happen .

Funny, I must be imagining the Lib-Lab Pact of the 1970s, and history says you've been wrong on more than one occasion.

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lib%E2%80%93Lab_pact

Dan Jaman · 09-09-2019 12:56am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

But a Yes/No referendum is not the way to decide something which takes thousands of pages of text to explain.

Leaving aside the utter absurdity of racists and half-wits deciding the fate of the nation, the greater absurdity is that there was no super-majority stipulated in the framing of the referendum. Apart, of course, from the simple and undeniable fact of the referendum being - in black and white - an advisory poll.

If a clear 66% of the voting public had said 'OUT', I'd have gone along with it, grumbling and cursing them, but would have accepted it.

blinding · 09-09-2019 1:14am

Dan Jaman wrote: »

Funny, I must be imagining the Lib-Lab Pact of the 1970s, and history says you've been wrong on more than one occasion.

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lib%E2%80%93Lab_pact

Jeremy Corbyn and Jo Swinson to form an alliance . I just can’t see it .

Why would those former Labour MPs join a party that would form an alliance with Jeremy Corbyn :eek::eek:

blinding · 09-09-2019 1:16am

Dan Jaman wrote: »

Leaving aside the utter absurdity of racists and half-wits deciding the fate of the nation, the greater absurdity is that there was no super-majority stipulated in the framing of the referendum. Apart, of course, from the simple and undeniable fact of the referendum being - in black and white - an advisory poll.

If a clear 66% of the voting public had said 'OUT', I'd have gone along with it, grumbling and cursing them, but would have accepted it.

Democracy is 50% + 1 .

Democracy will win out in Britain . That is why Britain will leave the Eu .

Surely you’d want 66% to Vote to remain in the Most Glorious Eu;););)

JoeCasey · 09-09-2019 2:10am

People only seem to like a democratic vote when it lands in their Favour.

blinding · 09-09-2019 9:07am

JoeCasey wrote: »

People only seem to like a democratic vote when it lands in their Favour.

The re-moaners in Britain have rejected Democracy in favour of the Eu .

Giving up your democracy for an institution like the Eu is insane ,

plodder · 09-09-2019 9:27am

blinding wrote: »

Democracy is 50% + 1 .

There are many flavours of democracy, but saying "stuff the 50% -1" is really majoritarianism; what you used to have in NI for example.

When it comes to really complicated questions like Brexit, you make sure the electorate understands what they are voting for and are given enough options that actually reflect the real choices.

The fact that Brexit is falling apart because the choice given to the electorate wasn't broad enough, should be obvious to anyone with more than one brain cell by this stage.

blinding · 09-09-2019 9:30am

plodder wrote: »

There are many flavours of democracy, but saying "stuff the 50% -1" is really majoritarianism; what you used to have in NI for example.

When it comes to really complicated questions like Brexit, you make sure the electorate understands what they are voting for and are given enough options that actually reflect the real choices.

The fact that Brexit is falling apart because the choice given to the electorate wasn't broad enough, should be obvious to anyone with more than one brain cell by this stage.

So 66% needed to stay in the Eu would be good then

Of course you would need 66% to let the Eu have so much interference in your Country .;)

plodder · 09-09-2019 9:35am

blinding wrote: »

So 66% needed to stay in the Eu would be good then

Of course you would need 66% to let the Eu have so much interference in your Country .;)

I think a multi-choice referendum would have been, or might still be a better idea. Force people to vote for something specific (eg no-deal, or the May deal) and use STV rules, (which was invented by an English man, I might add

) So, 50% or 66% would be irrelevant.

So, voters could say things like

- I want no-deal, and no other option
- I want the May deal. If I can't have that I prefer to remain
- I want to remain and prefer the May deal otherwise.

STV could deliver a very significant majority of the electorate around some more nuanced cross section of options like the above.

09-09-2019 10:53am

blinding wrote: »

Why would those former Labour MPs join a party that would form an alliance with Jeremy Corbyn :eek::eek:

Have you heard of Dessie O'Malley and the FF-PD coalition from 1989?

Of course ex Labour MPs would bite their tongues join a coalition with Labour. It might not be comfortable but, to borrow once again from the PDs, the worst day in Government is better than the best day in opposition.

blinding · 09-09-2019 11:00am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Have you heard of Dessie O'Malley and the FF-PD coalition from 1989?

Of course ex Labour MPs would bite their tongues join a coalition with Labour. It might not be comfortable but, to borrow once again from the PDs, the worst day in Government is better than the best day in opposition.

I can’t see it getting off the ground . Jeremy’s Momentum going into a coalition with ex Tories now in the Lid Dems / sell out Labour MPs etc etc .

Not too mention the Lib Dems the going into coalition with Corbny’s Anti- Semite Labour party .

I know things are fluid but that is pushing it .

09-09-2019 12:26pm

blinding wrote: »

I can’t see it getting off the ground . Jeremy’s Momentum going into a coalition with ex Tories now in the Lid Dems / sell out Labour MPs etc etc .

Not too mention the Lib Dems the going into coalition with Corbny’s Anti- Semite Labour party .

I know things are fluid but that is pushing it .

Labour is a broad church. There are already Labour MPs (eg Dan Jarvis, maybe Jess Philips) who would arguably be more at home in the One Nation wing of the Conservative Party than in Corbyn's Labour. If even they can support a Corbyn Government in the national interest, so too can Chuka Umunna and the other Blairites.

blinding · 09-09-2019 12:29pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Labour is a broad church. There are already Labour MPs (eg Dan Jarvis, maybe Jess Philips) who would arguably be more at home in the One Nation wing of the Conservative Party than in Corbyn's Labour. If even they can support a Corbyn Government in the national interest, so too can Chuka Umunna and the other Blairites.

You may be right but I can’t see it happening . I may be wrong .

dxhound2005 · 09-09-2019 1:38pm

blinding wrote: »

You may be right but I can’t see it happening . I may be wrong .

And you could be wrong if you think Johnson and Farage are going to do a deal.

blinding · 09-09-2019 1:39pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And you could be wrong if you think Johnson and Farage are going to do a deal.

I would say they are more likely to do so but of course not certain .

Perhaps Boris won’t need them . He is riding high in the Polls at the moment .

14-09-2019 11:28am

I didn’t hear the name of the guest that Marian is interviewing at the moment, but she (the interviewee, of course!) is doing her best to justify the inexcusable behaviour of the immigration “regime” at the US/Mexican border. Marian at least is pushing back - well, a bit

strawdog · 14-09-2019 11:37am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I didn’t hear the name of the guest that Marian is interviewing at the moment, but she (the interviewee, of course!) is doing her best to justify the inexcusable behaviour of the immigration “regime” at the US/Mexican border. Marian at least is pushing back - well, a bit

Have heard this dope elsewhere. Had to switch off. As a bad as a hard brexiteer. I know balance blah blah blah but what's the point? really annoys me they platform people who are just clearly idiots.

14-09-2019 11:38am

It’s Alice Butler Short. She’s just diagnosed a listener who sent in a text about Trump as suffering from “Trump Derangement Syndrome”. Pardon?

jeremyj1968 · 14-09-2019 11:40am

Alice Butler Short is the woman's name. Refreshing to hear a different opinion on the show for once. RTE have a habit of ignoring the negative side of their favourite Democrats, whether it be Obama's immigration policy, or Clinton's affairs (me too for every woman except the Clinton accusers), Kennedy's affairs. They only complain about the moral standards when the President is Republican.

She let the side down on the whole Sharia thing. While she is right to be demonstrating against Sharia, you would think that she would have better examples on hand to demonstrate what she is actually agin.

DublinWriter · 14-09-2019 11:41am

strawdog wrote: »

Have heard this dope elsewhere. Had to switch off. As a bad as a hard brexiteer. I know balance blah blah blah but what's the point? really annoys me they platform people who are just clearly idiots.

Heard her before too. She's batsh*t crazy. *click*

Marian Finucane Thread

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