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DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread
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That's a shade over PMP for a 4:30 hour marathon, which I had vague aspirations of doing.
All in all, feeling good enough about my time given the course, though a little disappointed I hadn't kept up with the pacers. It's a whole 15 mins faster than I ran my first HM in July in Clontarf, which has to be the flattest of flat HMs in the country... worlds apart from hilly Tullamore! But admittedly, I hadn't tried to overly burst myself in that one.
I am a little bit worried about my stamina and endurance to be honest. That's a 10 mile and 2 HMs I've done where I thought to myself afterwards, how in the name of jehovah am I going to be able to do twice this distance (or more in the case of the 10 mile!)?? I think I may review those vague 4:30 aspirations for DCM... not that I'm hell-bent on a finish time, finishing it is the absolute priority
:o:o
I'll ponder your questions for answering tomorrow Mr. Guappa! It's feeling like we're getting into the really serious stuff now!
Exactly what I was looking for - thanks!
Everyone second guesses themselves in the latter part of races. It's perfectly normal. In fact, I'd be doing well to get that far without second guessing myself. Maybe you were ambitious with heading out with the 2:10 pacers but I like that you gave it a shot. You now have two race efforts that will help inform a PMP for D Day. No worries about making it around the 26.2. You'll be great.
15 minutes is a huge chunk to take off your PB - well done!0 -
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- How was week ten for you?
Week 10 turned out really good, I was quite nervous about this week . I was working nights at the beginning of the week, so that always messes with my sleep, diet etc, but I am absolutely delighted with the way it went. I feel I have got my confidence back and yes I will run this town. My longest run to date 15 miles and felt really strong throughout
- Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?
I definitely have learned about pacing myself and slowing down, I kept the easy runs at a slower pace this week which in turn helped me on my LSR today
- What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper.
I probably need to work on my sleep and spent more time stretching after the runs
- What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?
1.Try and get a good night sleep prior to long runs, I was nervous last night and could not sleep.
2 maybe try and eat a little bit more for breakfast, more fuel . I will find it hard on the day as it will be a long time between meals.
3. Keep the pace slower at the beginning
I am so tired now, I am sure there is loads more but my bed is calling me.
Thanks for all your help
Nice job on heeding the sleep advice
Many people will have trouble sleeping the night before the marathon, due to nerves and excitement, so it's doubly important to get in good sleep earlier that week. Great to get into the habit now.Homework
Something slightly different for homework this week (robbed from AuldManKing in 2017 ):
- How was week ten for you?
A good week - got my runs in although I took a rest on Wed and switched that run to Thurs, pushing Thursday out to Friday. Still did same mileage but it meant I could take advantage of kids being back to school on Thurs. It was great to get the 19 miles done this week - I had been worried about it but was thrilled to get it done. The 30km on strava felt like a real milestone.
- Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?
Main changes are that I have slowed down and have increased my weekly mileage and running frequency as a result. I was working hard every time I ran which meant that 4 times a week was definitely my limit. Now that a lot of my runs are properly easy I can definitely increase the frequency without feeling exhausted.
- What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper.
I haven't really worked out nutrition well. My club coach is big on running on an empty stomach and not refuelling but I am aware that I've only tried gels once and need to be sure the tummy can manage on them. Also need to work out how many I'll need on the day.
- What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?
Practice for race day - breakfast, fuel, water, clothes. Also wonder about doing some PMP during LSRs - is that advised?
Your club coach is not wrong on there being advantages to running on an empty stomach and without refuelling - it teaches the body to burn fat as a fuel source once glycogen levels deplete. But you are correct on the need to make sure the gels work for you. In DCM last year I used 6 or 7 gels if remember correctly.greentea is just wrong wrote: »- How was week ten for you?
SO much better than the 2 weeks beforehand
Feeling back to myself, and slept in a few mornings too instead of gym.
LSR 15 miles @ 7:38 /km
8 miles @ 7:12 /km
4 miles @ 6:51 /km
3 miles @ 6:44 /km
- Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?
Before starting this, I had run a handful of park runs, and I think 10k twice. I never would of thought it was do-able, but the plan is easy to follow if you stick to it, and trying to keep in mind it's all about progress not perfection.
- What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper.
- Take better care of my diet, have been snacking a lot on ****e. bought lots of healthy wholesome food this week.
- Make sure I am sleeping enough.
I haven't taking gels, and I'm toying with the idea of it? On sats LSR, I brought jellies, and bought a powerade around 6 miles in though, and this seemed to work out. Might try a gels in some of the following weeks to see how i get on with them compared to the jellies.
- What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?
- Try gels to see if they suit me
- Keep pacing correctly
- MORE soft tissue work, starting to tighten up more
I love this bit: "it's all about progress not perfection" - very well put.
That is great progress in a few months. Glad to hear that you are feeling back to normal. It would be no harm to have a slight reduction in the number of gym days between now and DCM - as we've mentioned the miles over the next month or so will build the fatigue levels.
A few jellies and a powerade aren't going to fuel you for 26.2 miles of a marathon - definitely worth a trial with a gel on at the weekend.0 -
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I joined the thread late last week so my plan is slightly different to the ones mentioned here. I have a busy week in work this week so I aim to run on Wednesday and Thursday, then the 20m lsr on Saturday.
- How was week ten for you?
11km Monday - fast 4.59 per km. Not planned or expected. Ran with 2 guys from work couldn't slow it or them down.
Speed work Wednesday 6x400m. Felt fine. I know it has been mentioned here 400m aren't too productive for marathon but I like the variety to the training.
Tempo Thursday 3.2km @ 5.11 per km and 1.6km @ 4.39 per km. Nice run.
Saturday 30 km LSR. After joining the thread on Thursday, I heeded the adive to run slow, brought the pace back to 6 min km.
- Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?
Ability to run for longer than I ever thought I could while still feeling relatively good.
- What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper.
Slow down on the easy/recovery runs and LSR
- What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?
Nail down by diet for the day before DCM, and the food intake that morning and during. I was hungry during the run on Saturday. Plan is to take some frozen grapes out with me next Saturday to take these as well as the gels and water.
You've no easy days there - 3 tough days plus one long run. Nice start on easier paces on the long run - stick with it and add more easy days in place of hard days.How was week ten for you?
Started off Badly with Tight calves.
Tuesday - 4 miles 5.34 pace (very sore on the calves)
Weds - 9 miles 5.29 pace (felt great until later in the day)
Thurs / Friday rest and try recover
Saturday - 17 miles 5:59 pace (for once felt great. Stuck to grass and trail surfaces in Phoenix Park. Took 2 bottles of Tailwind and 3 High 5 hydro gels with me. Made all the difference for the last 5k where my energy levels started to evaporate)
Sunday - 2 Miles Recovery
- Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?
Before this year I had 1 half marathon under my belt from about 4 years ago. Several 5s and 10s in various places.
Started this year with Mullingar half, Connemara Half, Clontarf Half, Then moved up to marathon training
- What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper.
- Watch my hydration (especially post lsr)and see a physio. Stretch more. Possibly take in some sports massages
- What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?
Slow down all my runs. I know I can go faster but that's not the point of all this is it. It's time on feet and building up resistance. Also wouldn't mind finding a running partner for Sat lsr's
You seem to have taken on board what we've spoken about regarding easy paces - great to see. Interested now to see if you can put them into practice this week
Definitely worth a trip to the physio, if even just for a rub out and maybe a heads up on anything to keep an eye on.passinginterest wrote: »How was week ten for you?
Probably my best week of training so far. Slowed everything down a bit, apart from the PMP which was a bit quick in parts. Long run couldn’t have gone much better, feel like I made improvements in the fuelling and hydration that really paid off. Week overall made me feel much better about the training and the process. Weight even down a pound and a half this morning. Hopefully that trend will continue too.
Where have to come from as a runner since starting this plan?
Hmm… starting to get all deep and meaningful now. I’ve mentioned it before but after running DCM 2014 I’d been pretty much inactive. Little bursts here and there, either running or a bit of astro league football but nothing consistent. Flare ups of pain in my foot on a regular basis and only really diagnosed as psoriatic arthritis around this time last year. A few work folks were doing Run in the Dark last November and with treatment seemingly going well for the foot, it gave me an incentive to join them and to try put some structure on training again. Struggling to break 30 mins for a park run put some perspective on where I was fitness wise (20.18 in the Grant Thornton 5k around this time in 2014 is my PB). I had around three weeks of getting out 3 days a week before the Run in the Dark and managed to get around in 56.27 with a 27 minute second 5k.
From there, I decided to try follow a 5k plan and get down as low as I could before the new year. Still relatively low mileage, I ended up doing around 50 miles in November and December and got the parkrun time down to 24.14. Decided to enter the marathon sometime along here too.
New year decided I’d sign up for a half marathon and try keep the training going. Wicklow half was the plan and under two hours was the goal. Over 100 miles in January and mid 80’s in Feb and March. Wicklow on the 24th of March, lovely day, very hilly course but couldn’t have gone much better and surprised myself by coming home in 1.54.49. Marathon now seemed like a realistic goal. Switched focus to a plan for the Terenure 5 Mile, again went pretty well went under 24 for a parkrun and managed to run slightly quicker in Terenure (38.21) than I had in 2014 (38.34). Followed a week later with 21.58 in the Tallaght 5k (my second ever 5k time ever under 22 mins).
Had signed up for the Clontarf half too on the 6th of July and had planned to follow a plan for that and the switch over to the novices plan after. 122 miles in April and 127 in May so was still building, but I think I was a bit too ambitious with the plan and the paces. Started to feel really tired coming into June and decided to scrap the plan to race Clontarf and to just follow the novices plan with Clontarf as a quick LSR. 95 miles in June with only about 15 in the first two weeks as I took a rest.
Clontarf fell in week two of the novices plan and I set out to run with the two hour pacers and hopefully finish strong. Again, it went well and I came home in 1.56.34, with a 7.55 last mile. I was conscious of trying to slow things down a bit and stick to the principals of the plan, but also felt I was training too slow at times (compared to the paces McMillan was suggesting). South Dublin 10k was going to be the first test of the plan and the slower to get faster philosophy. I wasn’t feeling great on the day and it didn’t go well, first time really I’ve started a race and not hit around the time I’ve expected. That was a bit of a blow to the confidence, but the fact I was feeling sick beforehand softened it a little.
In 2014, I’d hit my goal in all the build up races, taking big chunks off my Terenure 5 Mile that year, but burnt out before the marathon. The reason for following this plan is to hopefully avoid the same fate. It still hasn’t stopped me comparing though. The problem I had then was I failed to finish out every run over 15 miles, because I was trying to run everything too fast. So successfully completing the two 16 mile runs on this plan restored some confidence again. Then along came the Frank Duffy 10 Mile and another tough race that didn’t really go to plan. No sickness this time either, OK it was warm, but was it that warm? More doubts, 12 minutes slower than five years ago, but still hoping to run a similar if not better marathon time. Am I mad?
Then along comes this week, and a near perfect 19 mile long run. And the confidence is restored again, and I remember why I’m following this plan and why it’s been so successful over the years. So, where have I come from as a runner since starting this plan? Hopefully, I’ve developed a much better understanding of how to train for a marathon, an appreciation that easy needs to be easy to keep the body injury free and to develop the endurance needed to successfully complete a marathon. And an acceptance that comparing to a previous self is fairly pointless and even if I don’t manage to run sub 4 hours, successfully getting around will be an achievement in itself, given where I was a year ago.
Sorry for the rambling…
What are the changes you need to make before the taper?
I think the biggest thing is to keep the remaining weeks like this one. Properly easy for the easy runs and proper prep for the long run. Good hydration and fuelling. Keep the negative thoughts to a minimum. Keep logging the calories the keep the weight going in the right direction.
Great post - not rambling at all! Really good to see you have a positive week, and on the back of a tough race too. One of the keys I'm sure was slowing down the paces a touch - to twist the title of a training log here, everything is easy when the easy is often.0 -
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How was week ten for you?
Week 10 was really good - daunting at 1st looking at all the miles but often the mind does that when we don't just focus on what's in hand instead of overthinking the whole week! Also knew it was going to be slightly tougher mentally as i had to leave my LSR till Sunday- thankfully none of it was as bad as i had imagined & i actually really enjoyed my long run knowing this was a first for me at this distance!! Defo gave me confidence
- Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?
I honestly think my progress is amazing, not for one min saying I'm amazing haha but to see the progress as each week comes & goes totally amazes me :eek: I thought these distances were only run by REAL runners - well guess what i am a real runner
I think i have also learned that running is simply not just running, there's so much more to it & that i need to listen to people that are willing to help in order to improve!
I can't thank the mentors & fellow novices enough for all the help & support over the last few weeks.
- What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper.
I think i need to try to get more sleep!
I also need to make sure i eat well as much as possible & try to cut down on all the sugary crap!
- What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?
I think i need to concentrate a bit more on my paces & not get caught up in my thoughts/music.
I also think i need to incorporate more stretching & foam rolling.0 -
How was week ten for you?
On the advice of Mr. Guappa, due to the Tullamore HM, I swapped the schedule for Week 10 of the HHN1 plan for the week of the Dublin Race Series HM, which meant only 3 runs. Three? It felt like I was slacking, very strange!
Despite only having the 3 runs, last week wasn't an easy week. I felt, still feel, that I've stalled on making progress, from the point of view of being able to run faster whilst maintaining a lower heart rate. It's making me panic a bit to be honest, I feel at this stage that I'd like to start running to pace just like everyone else is!
But... will see how the coming week goes, as I'm very aware that HR is a barometer of wellbeing and health too. My tummy has been a bit off the past week, so it could be something as simple as that, rather than a lack of progress in fitness.
Tuesday 4 miles @ 11:17 mins/mile, avg bpm 146
Wednesday 6.2 miles @12:01 mins/mile, avg bpm 144
Saturday 13.1 miles (Tullamore HM) @ 10:22 mins/mile, avg bpm 168
Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?
I've been running on and off for many years now up to 10km distance. But I think this is the first time I actually feel like a runner I am flabbergasted that I now consider 10 miles to be a short run, 15 miles to be not too big a hassle! I quite happily went running with my multiple Ironman cousins a few weeks ago... a year ago, had they suggested such a thing, I'd have withered inside with embarrassment and made my excuses. I just can't imagine life without running now. Not a chance would I have said that before starting this adventure.:o
I have to say though, the support here from mentors and fellow runners, and feeling of us all being in this together here, has become invaluable, and I think that will continue and become even more important as we get closer to the Big Day:)
What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper
Sleep. Gotta get more sleep. I can work really weird hours, and we keep a pile of animals here who don't care what my schedule is... their day starts at dawn. So, my sleep tends to be broken.
I want to get my fueling right too. I'm sorry I keep bringing this up, but my tummy is my nemesis. It is too fond of reminding me of this when I'm running. I'm gonna try porridge instead of bready/yeasty stuff. I love porridge. We keep bees. Their honey is to die for. So it'll be an excuse to shovel some of it into me bowl of porridge
Also want to give a caffeine gel a shot. I don't drink coffee, but I need to see what my feckin tummy does if I throw a caffeine gel in there :eek:
Another thing that's bothering me... getting S&C sessions in these days I've been doing some amount of S&C stuff for the guts of 2 years now, but phew... getting the time and particularly the inclination now that the mileage is increasing. I mentioned before that I'm on my feet a LOT during the day... taking yesterday as an example, according to my watch I did 11km worth of steps, and that was a relatively quiet day, with no running and no fancy stuff
Needless to say, getting the runs done, and the stuff that entails walking 8-12+km a day, it's getting really hard to get around to S&C. I'm thinking now that I'll shelve the heavier kettlebell workouts, and keep the core work going via the gentler pilates? Does this sound like a plan?
What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?
I pondered this today. You know what I need to do? I need to start bloody well enjoying the LSRs! Up til now, I've been a bit daunted by them, daunted by running further than I ever have before, feeling like I have to improve on each one, every week. But I don't, do I?! Why not enjoy the whole thing, rather than just the high after getting it done?!
DCM is next month :eek::D0 -
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Laineyfrecks wrote: »How was week ten for you?
Week 10 was really good - daunting at 1st looking at all the miles but often the mind does that when we don't just focus on what's in hand instead of overthinking the whole week! Also knew it was going to be slightly tougher mentally as i had to leave my LSR till Sunday- thankfully none of it was as bad as i had imagined & i actually really enjoyed my long run knowing this was a first for me at this distance!! Defo gave me confidence
- Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?
I honestly think my progress is amazing, not for one min saying I'm amazing haha but to see the progress as each week comes & goes totally amazes me :eek: I thought these distances were only run by REAL runners - well guess what i am a real runner I think i have also learned that running is simply not just running, there's so much more to it & that i need to listen to people that are willing to help in order to improve!
I can't thank the mentors & fellow novices enough for all the help & support over the last few weeks.
- What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper.
I think i need to try to get more sleep!
I also need to make sure i eat well as much as possible & try to cut down on all the sugary crap!
- What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?
I think i need to concentrate a bit more on my paces & not get caught up in my thoughts/music.
I also think i need to incorporate more stretching & foam rolling.
Haha, this post is almost word for word how I would have assessed my own progress at the same time last year.
Enjoy the rest of your journey!!0 -
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- How was week ten for you?
Week 10 was a mixed bag. Start of the week I found tricky. Body was tired after the Frank Duffy and just wasn't moving as comfortably as I would like. A busy work schedule also had me feeling 'meh' and very drained. However, I got through the midweek runs and a last minute change in work schedule meant i got to do my LSR refreshed and energised on Sunday. Really worked on lowering my pace, felt really strong, confident and very proud of myself once completing my longest run to date.
3m @ 10.13
7m @11.04
4m @ 11.17
15m @ 11.36
- Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?
Listening to my body is starting to become a big one - not forcing myself to stick to a particular time or pace on my watch just because i want to.
- What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper.
I need to keep working on lowering my pace AND pay more attention to my cross days. So far i've been doing a bit of yoga, walking and some days nothing - I think I could be more strict with these and utilise better.
- What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?
I need to work on my head. I find this is the biggest obstacle for me on my long runs especially as the legs get tired - need to ramp up the 'I can do it' positivity! I also need to remember that my aim is to simply finish and enjoy the experience while doing so. My competitive side can sometimes get the better of me and have me running at ridiculous paces.
Wishing everyone a great week and thank you for all the advice and support so far 0 -
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- How was week ten for you?
Good-ish week had; 1 easy, 1 PMP, 1 Easy, then the LSR. Had to do the 19 mile LSR on Friday night as we had a massive family wedding next day (As in all the groom stuff happened in our house) The LSR was grueling, especially running it late at night, and having to come up with new routes on the fly due to a lack of lighting in patches. Got it done, even though I crashed into bed after midnight.
- Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?
I was a rough and ready runner before this, never paid much attention to pace or HR. (I took to following a pace (badly) during the Cork Marathon:rolleyes: ) I'm now tracking these things and should keep me much fresher, even though I'm doing much more milage
- What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper.
Sleep. I need more sleep. Once this series of weddings is over things should return to normal just next Saturdays one to get over the hump
- What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?
Revert to my standard fueling strategy; Fridays LSR was fueled by take away and I felt leaden / rotten / empty for the last few miles. Same applies to the start times, evening runs always seem harder than my usual early bird strategy 0 -
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