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Fear that I might have been fired from work due to reporting pain in leg
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riffmongous wrote: »Yeah just shut up and do whatever you are ordered to, now remind me who is the little bitch here?
In a job less than a week. Seriously ? and plus first job out of college. I work in IT and earn a very good salary and troublemakers in my trade get no-where and won’t last probation. You can tell them a mile away. I often have to lift 20KG printers and 20KG servers and cable up systems.
Should I tell my boss I refuse to lift these as it’s meant to be a desk job? Where do you think that would get me? Any further promotions would be shut down. They’d look at it me like I had three heads or something wrong in the head with me.
It was lifting a few pallets for god sake, not like they were asking him to shovel ****e out of a stable or two get up seven stories of scaffolding.
With my wages Which are massive by the way, I’d be happy to lift pallets for a few hours to get away from the stress of the role.
You must be on a very low salary if you have time to moderate board. I certainly don’t have any free time0 -
Game of Thrones Fan wrote: »During the week I realised that I didn't get my dismissal in writing. She could easily have told the others in the company that I just didn't bother showing up. I would have liked to record it when I got fired. I'm pretty sure she recorded me. I emailed her asking for written notification of my dismissal, and that it should be normal practice. In this email I also wrote about how I believed that given my circumstances (due to me having to relocate, and given that the start date had already been deferred twice), that the company had a moral obligation to pay me for more than 1.5 days notice.
She emailed back two days later (yesterday) to say that, in relation to the my role that it had been necessary to defer it due to "business requirements that will involve changes to the job spec, including the addition of manual labor activities." In this email she said that she will send a cheque to my home address to alleviate any expenses.
So the question is who will the cheque be from? Will it be from the company, or will it be from her. I hope it's not going to be a bank draft so that I will who's paying for it. I wouldn't like to think that paying it herself in order to cover up the mess she made. I'd have a good mind to mail it right back. There's no point in me accepting the cheque if I'm going to get a solicitor involved.
There are a few other things. I am suspicious of whether or not she ever approved the position before I was hired. There was never any job spec for the original position! Also, the week before I started this boss texted me asking if I could start on the Tuesday instead. The contract stated that I should have started on Monday of that week. I obliged without it being clarified whether or not I'd even be getting paid for the Monday. I didn't get paid for the Monday. It's not a big deal, but it was sloppy of her.
In the last week I met with the site H&S guy and we filled out an incident report form which I signed. I later texted him to email it to me but he didn't!
I can see why they let you go. I would of had as well.0 -
Unsat, the OP presented themselves for interview for a specific position that they were interested in and as the best candidate the company successfully hired them. Now the company being completely disingenuous have invited them to start work and when they did have found themselves assigned work and delegated tasks completely unrelated to the job which they applied for and agreed to do..
Alarm bells should be ringing... what the company should have done...
1) explained that they were not ready to start the employee in the agreed role
2) explain why this was the case
3) give an approximate date as to when the employee could start in the job which they had been successful in applying for
4) offer the employee the choice of waiting for the role they applied for to become available or ASK if in the interim they would be prepared to start in this current role for a couple of weeks which would help them learn about the company, the different departments a familiarization if you like.
That’s respectful, responsible and appropriate in the circumstances.
Have you ever worked in a manufacturing environment?0 -
Op said in an earlier post that he/she has always struggled to get work. Maybe there was a reason here to be grateful for the opportunity, time will tell if the op continues to struggle to get another job. Learning ones “value”, taking the moral high road, is easier to do when you have a weekly wage then when you are signing on.
If I’m advertising for the position of a personal trainer just as an example at a new sports complex I’m setting up... you have experience, you are qualified, verified references the works...you are offered the job, you accept, you are enthusiastic and can’t wait to get started training and working with people and getting paid, perfect...
On your first day I’m showing you around, place a shambles, gym not open yet, only a small selection of equipment installed... and tools and flat packed gear in boxes, wires hanging from the ceiling etc...
You ask ...”well what the heck ?” I inform that due to a problem with some of the contractors the set up is behind, the company responsible are procuring new staff that will take maybe a week..
I then suggest that the consensus amongst us is to open on time we all muck in, setting up gear, doing our best handyman impressions and see where it takes us, do you go grab a tool box and have at it ? Putting yourself and your asset (body) on the line trying to do work you are hardly qualified to do ? Or do you say .. “ ok, sorry guys, this is outside of my comfort zone and area of expertise, please contact me when you can enable me to begin my employment as agreed. “... because that’s what I’d be saying...0 -
If I’m advertising for the position of a personal trainer just as an example at a new sports complex I’m setting up... you have experience, you are qualified, verified references the works...you are offered the job, you accept, you are enthusiastic and can’t wait to get started training and working with people and getting paid, perfect...
On your first day I’m showing you around, place a shambles, gym not open yet, only a small selection of equipment installed... and tools and flat packed gear in boxes, wires hanging from the ceiling etc...
You ask ...”well what the heck ?” I inform that due to a problem with some of the contractors the set up is behind, the company responsible are procuring new staff that will take maybe a week..
I then suggest that the consensus amongst us is to open on time we all muck in, setting up gear, doing our best handyman impressions and see where it takes us, do you go grab a tool box and have at it ? Putting yourself and your asset (body) on the line trying to do work you are hardly qualified to do ? Or do you say .. “ ok, sorry guys, this is outside of my comfort zone and area of expertise, please contact me when you can enable me to begin my employment as agreed. “... because that’s what I’d be saying...
There’s a big difference with a grad fresh out of college struggling to get their foot in the door to actually utilize their degree than say a person with 15 years experience and can walk into any job they feel like. My guess is that OP was filling in for someone that was on annual leave lifting the pallets and they wanted someone full time in the lab but also wanted someone to cover the warehouse occasionally if they were badly stuck along with other small duties but OP complained about this and was let go. Hence why the changed the job spec as wanted someone who wouldn’t complain. OP is no where a senior scientist and will be getting trained in for a long time.
Regarding gym equipment that’s a different ball game altogether than just lifting a pallet. I would say I’m not comfortable or wouldn’t be able to do it but if you know someone that can I will do it with them as it’s a two or three person job. I wouldn’t blankly refuse.
Yes the company should have been prepared but OP needs the expierence. I’d rather be working and sucking it up than back on the Dole. The first few years after college are critical to get expierence, if OP has no work after five years of graduating, more than likely be blacklisted by employers.
I can’t stress enough how critical it is to get your first job out of college as soon as possible. OP could have sucking it up, give it a few months to see if things changed and if not start looking for a new job while still been employed which is easier to find a new role.
This whole giving out and complaining will not work in real life employment and will hold you back significantly. It’s not like the OP has a line of jobs available and I’d rather do the crap work while gaining experience so my future prospects will be much better than signing on every month.
I guess some people here would rather be on the dole than doing something they don’t like if an employer asks them0 -
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I think maybe too much study and not enough work left the OP with the illusion that scientists spend all their time looking through a microscope or performing titrations and writing papers. Thats academia.
Plenty of scientists spend their days lugging gear in and out of bogs, dragging heavy samples in and out of vehicles and labs, moving samples and components around. Expecting to have your hand held from day one is a little bit unrealistic.
When I direct someone to perform a task, there is always a risk assessment and a safe work method statement behind the task so they can undertake it safely, or identify any gaps in knowledge or ability prior to starting the task to avoid injury or incident.
If this wasn't done, then the workplace has let you down in fairness. It's basic ISO stuff. That said, if it is below the threshold for identifying as a manual handling hazard, it would have slipped through in any case.
Work will cause exertion. They are literally the same thing.
Exertion will cause tiredness and some muscular aches and pains will come with this. It sounds to me as if the lip of the too hard basket was very close to the ground and effort and commitment were on the low side. This would be fine if initiative were used instead and the pallet was moved mechanically etc. but you've literally tripped over on your teeth at the very first hurdle and had a whinge.
That's what probation periods are for. Tough Break for you.
Lesson learned ?
- Next time work a little harder and a lot smarter, if you are going to fail again, fail better.
Don't bother trying to screw over the employer on the way out. Laws are made for people with real injuries and real disputes. Your case has neither.0 -
Exertion is ok, hard work ok..the fact is though if you are being requested and required to exert yourself and work hard at jobs you have not sought employment doing, it’s unsat.
Flexible yes, in terms of hours, shifts, cover, NEVER in terms of your job specification...0 -
AngryHippie wrote: »I think maybe too much study and not enough work left the OP with the illusion that scientists spend all their time looking through a microscope or performing titrations and writing papers. Thats academia.
Plenty of scientists spend their days lugging gear in and out of bogs, dragging heavy samples in and out of vehicles and labs, moving samples and components around. Expecting to have your hand held from day one is a little bit unrealistic.
When I direct someone to perform a task, there is always a risk assessment and a safe work method statement behind the task so they can undertake it safely, or identify any gaps in knowledge or ability prior to starting the task to avoid injury or incident.
If this wasn't done, then the workplace has let you down in fairness. It's basic ISO stuff. That said, if it is below the threshold for identifying as a manual handling hazard, it would have slipped through in any case.
Work will cause exertion. They are literally the same thing.
Exertion will cause tiredness and some muscular aches and pains will come with this. It sounds to me as if the lip of the too hard basket was very close to the ground and effort and commitment were on the low side. This would be fine if initiative were used instead and the pallet was moved mechanically etc. but you've literally tripped over on your teeth at the very first hurdle and had a whinge.
That's what probation periods are for. Tough Break for you.
Lesson learned ?
- Next time work a little harder and a lot smarter, if you are going to fail again, fail better.
Don't bother trying to screw over the employer on the way out. Laws are made for people with real injuries and real disputes. Your case has neither.
I think its a leap to suggest that the OP couldn't deal with exertion. Might not be what he is looking to do but injuries do happen.
Think its clear that the company hired graduates without having a clear plan for what they were going to do with them and put them/one of them doing something to keep them busy until what they hired them for came clear. Hoped that their new grad would be happy enough with a wage until something more suitable to their skills would emerge.
While OP could have done the work without comment, earned a wage and prevented this discussion, in my experience that sort of shoddy work practice means that it is less likely the job the OP expected would ever emerge. The ad hoc plan didnt work out as OP didnt just keep his head down and soon gave impression of being dissatisfied with the tasks he was provided - whether the complaints were valid or not.
Company decides that the job description they hired him under was wrong (suggesting that the OP would have had a long wait to get the types of activities he was expecting/hired for to come about, and again a fault on the original poor recruitment practice from the company). The new job description needed to focus on the more manual tasks. Who knows this might have been the excuse used to move the OP on. Of course on probation, there was no need for a reason.
But the OP can apply for the job again under these terms - not that there would be much point from both parties to do so.
Again, I think its a leap to say that academia produces people who cant do menial work - all the scientists you mention in the post obviously succeed in understanding that. I do think that if you are interested in a scientist jobs that you dont apply for warehousing roles, with limited skills development of where you want to go and what you want to do. While education is being continually devalued, having a MSc would suggest that you have skills that someone will value.
If you are comparing warehousing roles vs being unemployed and needing a wages is your most pressing focus, then thats a different calculation.0 -
If I’m advertising for the position of a personal trainer just as an example at a new sports complex I’m setting up... you have experience, you are qualified, verified references the works...you are offered the job, you accept, you are enthusiastic and can’t wait to get started training and working with people and getting paid, perfect...
On your first day I’m showing you around, place a shambles, gym not open yet, only a small selection of equipment installed... and tools and flat packed gear in boxes, wires hanging from the ceiling etc...
You ask ...”well what the heck ?” I inform that due to a problem with some of the contractors the set up is behind, the company responsible are procuring new staff that will take maybe a week..
I then suggest that the consensus amongst us is to open on time we all muck in, setting up gear, doing our best handyman impressions and see where it takes us, do you go grab a tool box and have at it ? Putting yourself and your asset (body) on the line trying to do work you are hardly qualified to do ? Or do you say .. “ ok, sorry guys, this is outside of my comfort zone and area of expertise, please contact me when you can enable me to begin my employment as agreed. “... because that’s what I’d be saying...
If you were struggling to get any job, and this was your first chance to work in the profession you trained for and want a career in, you just might muck in and help out putting that new gym equipment together.
But on hearing what you just said, I’m sure most employers would be happy to accommodate you and allow you to go back to job hunting, realising they just dodged a bullet.0 -
Flexible yes, in terms of hours, shifts, cover, NEVER in terms of your job specification...
Don’t apply for jobs in the larger and multinational companies then. These companies are all understaffed and always will be. It is common to be asked to do tasks outside the job specification in these companies. This is especially true of new starts.
Yes, you could say that these rich companies should hire sufficient staff. They never do though. Your attitude at work should be based on reality, not the way things should be. Actions have consequences.0 -
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I’ve worked for a large multinational so I know very well, to the point of almost costing me my life.0
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Don’t apply for jobs in the larger and multinational companies then. These companies are all understaffed and always will be. It is common to be asked to do tasks outside the job specification in these companies. This is especially true of new starts.
Yet, in this situation they changed the job specs. It is very different situation, someone being precious and looking at their job description every task that is asked of them. Being asked to help in a situation where people were stuck. That's just being an arsehole and companies shouldnt employ arseholes, and get rid as soon as they can, if they can.
However, being put in a department/role that has nothing to do with the job you applied for and was hired for, and expected to work happily there on the hope that what you originally hired for will come to pass at some future date is a bigger gamble. In the OPs situation, the original role he applied for was never going to come around. He would be working on pallettes etc for as long as he would stick it.0 -
However, being put in a department/role that has nothing to do with the job you applied for and was hired for, and expected to work happily there on the hope that what you originally hired for will come to pass at some future date is a bigger gamble. In the OPs situation, the original role he applied for was never going to come around. He would be working on pallettes etc for as long as he would stick it.
But he only lasted one week. It sounds like he would have got to do lab work at some stage if he had a better attitude and kept going. Then after his probation period was up he would have a lot more power. Alternatively, he could have just applied for other jobs and left on good terms.0 -
But he only lasted one week. It sounds like he would have got to do lab work at some stage if he had a better attitude and kept going. Then after his probation period was up he would have a lot more power. Alternatively, he could have just applied for other jobs and left on good terms.
The company should have been the ones with the better attitude and inserted them into the role which they went to the trouble of applying for from the get go.0 -
Yet, in this situation they changed the job specs. It is very different situation, someone being precious and looking at their job description every task that is asked of them. Being asked to help in a situation where people were stuck. That's just being an arsehole and companies shouldnt employ arseholes, and get rid as soon as they can, if they can.
However, being put in a department/role that has nothing to do with the job you applied for and was hired for, and expected to work happily there on the hope that what you originally hired for will come to pass at some future date is a bigger gamble. In the OPs situation, the original role he applied for was never going to come around. He would be working on pallettes etc for as long as he would stick it.
Big multinationals will not hire a scientist on scientist salary to carry out a role that could be filled by somebody on a lower salary. OP had no work experience and needed the experience for their CV . They should have knuckled down for a year got the experience and moved on.
Sounds like the OP was put out by being expected to do some manual work . Not a very appealing attitude to display to your new
employer.0 -
But he only lasted one week. It sounds like he would have got to do lab work at some stage if he had a better attitude and kept going. Then after his probation period was up he would have a lot more power. Alternatively, he could have just applied for other jobs and left on good terms.
If that was the case (that the lab work would come if he was good and happy moving palettes) there wouldn't have been the need to change the job specs. They would rehire with the same specs and get someone more willing to do what told without raising complaints. If they change the job specs they are more likely to get someone who is better suited to the work they were asking the OP to do.
If he is qualified to do lab work, and was hired to do such Im not sure how good he is at moving palettes (or how happy he is to do it) matters. He complained about having a pain in his leg - precious as it sounds - and raised a H&S issue. I'm also not sure that's having a bad attitude. I'd be more worried about naivete about feeling aggrieved to think that he has a legal case against them.0 -
Big multinationals will not hire a scientist on scientist salary to carry out a role that could be filled by somebody on a lower salary. OP had no work experience and needed the experience for their CV . They should have knuckled down for a year got the experience and moved on.
Sounds like the OP was put out by being expected to do some manual work . Not a very appealing attitude to display to your new
employer.
Exactly. Why put a scientist working in a warehouse for a year? What does the employee get out of that?
If the bar is being set at having a job and getting any wage, then get a different job and apply for warehousing roles. He will get as much from it.
He didnt apply for a warehouse role, and while working he may very well be missing out on going for an interview for a company who actually require an entry level graduate for the skills he has, rather than forcing him to waste a year moving palettes.0 -
OP,
If you were back to week one, would you do anything different?
No, your manager is not paying this out of her own money. The cheque will have the name of the company on it. She will have the full backing of her company, possibly a positive review point for her.
If it's looking like you'll be unemployed for at least another year (with seriously low unemployment levels) and can get an under worked solicitor to take your case, what have you to lose.
However, I'd suggest you put your time into getting any type of work (Superman's/McDonald's) instead.
As for having a masters. You probably realise now that that's possibly 3-5% of what it takes to get a degree relative job.0 -
Again, if I advertise that I’m hiring a gardener I’m not on day one going to try and send you into the kitchen to wash plates and sweep the floor..
If you hire a gardener, give them that job
If you hire a pilot, give them an aircraft to fly
If you hire a chef give them food to cook
Fûck this disingenuous greedy bull**** of trying to just have ‘employees’ that you want to get to do anything anytime, no forget it. Agree salary, job and task wise do zero outside of that description, contract and scope.0 -
He didnt apply for a warehouse role, and while working he may very well be missing out on going for an interview for a company who actually require an entry level graduate for the skills he has, rather than forcing him to waste a year moving palettes.
It was a graduate job, and the OP had zero work experience. Typically these roles start out doing general tasks to help an employee get up to speed, he could have been moved somewhere else within days.
Yet, he started having issues within days. Far better for a company to weed out potential problems before they invest time and money in them.0 -
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Fan of Netflix wrote: »I wonder would a female scientist be asked to move heavy pallets around the yard? Probably not I would assume. Everyday sexism in action.
You cannot make up assumptions and then base that some sexism exists off of that.
That's not how logic works.0 -
Again, if I advertise that I’m hiring a gardener I’m not on day one going to try and send you into the kitchen to wash plates and sweep the floor..
If you hire a gardener, give them that job
If you hire a pilot, give them an aircraft to fly
If you hire a chef give them food to cook
Fûck this disingenuous greedy bull**** of trying to just have ‘employees’ that you want to get to do anything anytime, no forget it. Agree salary, job and task wise do zero outside of that description, contract and scope.
Wish away for a perfect world.
Now, back to the facts. The OP was taken on in a graduate role with zero prior work experience, and needed to learn the basics. He has book learning, so knows a little about H&S legislation.
That probably hasn't worked out the best for him.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Wish away for a perfect world.
Now, back to the facts. The OP was taken on in a graduate role with zero prior work experience, and needed to learn the basics..
Forget wishing, just expect the role to be provided as promised.
The OP was hired to do an advertised job. Learning all well and good...being assigned tasks unrelated to the job they applied for successfully...not good.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »It was a graduate job, and the OP had zero work experience. Typically these roles start out doing general tasks to help an employee get up to speed, he could have been moved somewhere else within days.
Why change the job specs then, if what they were asking him to do was all part of a grand plan. Why not explain to him that this moving of palettes was essential to him getting a knowledge of what he will need to do when he will be working in a lab in a months time etc. Nah. Company hired a masters degree who wanted to be in a lab to move palettes for as long as they wanted him to.
Not that thats why the OP complained or got let go.0 -
If the OP was female they would not be in this situation because men amd women are not equal0
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... being assigned tasks unrelated to the job they applied for successfully...not good.
Getting to know how a company works is relevant for a graduate scientist or graduate business major.Why change the job specs then... Nah. Company hired a masters degree who wanted to be in a lab to move palettes for as long as they wanted him to.
The company told him they were changing the job spec to something they knew the OP wouldn't apply for. At this stage alarm bells were going off and they wanted the OP out the door. Was a new job spec actually created?
Your last point doesn't make sense, nobody hires a graduate to lug around palettes as the primary or long term function. Companies put a lot of time and resources into their graduate hires. These are their future stars.
But the OP on WEEK ONE metaphorically jumped up and down shouting, 'look at me! I'm going to be a pain in your arse for years to come!' Harsh, but true.0 -
Again, if I advertise that I’m hiring a gardener I’m not on day one going to try and send you into the kitchen to wash plates and sweep the floor..
If you hire a gardener, give them that job
If you hire a pilot, give them an aircraft to fly
If you hire a chef give them food to cook
Fûck this disingenuous greedy bull**** of trying to just have ‘employees’ that you want to get to do anything anytime, no forget it. Agree salary, job and task wise do zero outside of that description, contract and scope.
Again, what you are saying here is that the op should go back to signing on until the lab is ready, no wage, no guarantee that after refusing to do a bit of manual work, that he would be employed.
I think your militant streak, and possibly your admission that a job nearly cost your your life, is giving you a stunted, tunnel vision-like view of all workplace issues.
The op struggled to get this job, will likely continue to struggle to get another one. Reading ops account, it seems he as asked to do a fairly menial manual job of dragging a wooden palate, hardly a demanding role, nor indeed something that should cause you to lose your job and opportunity to work in the job/sector you trained for. I’m pretty sure we have all done jobs outside the description, sometimes it’s your ability to adapt and take on additional/unexpected tasks that can impress your employer, or like in this case, confirm their opinion that they made a mistake in hiring the op.0 -
Again, what you are saying here is that the op should go back to signing on until the lab is ready, no wage, no guarantee that after refusing to do a bit of manual work, that he would be employed.
I think your militant streak, and possibly your admission that a job nearly cost your your life, is giving to a stunted, tunnel vision-like view of all workplace issues.
The op struggled to get this job, will likely continue to struggle to get another one. Reading ops account, it seems he as asked to do a fairly menial manual job of dragging a wooden palate, hardly a demanding role, nor indeed something that should cause you to lose your job and opportunity to work in the job/sector you trained for. I’m pretty sure we have all done jobs outside the description, sometimes it’s your ability to adapt and take on additional/unexpected tasks that can impress your employer, or like in this case, confirm their opinion that they made a mistake in hiring the op.
Where did the OP refuse to the manual work?0 -
In my experience if you keep agreeing to do off spec work then they will keep giving you that work. That never ends well.0
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The company did not behave well. However, the op needs a job, the company does not need the op, he can be quickly replaced. When you start a job the balance of power is with the company. After a year the employee has more power. This is just the reality that employees should base their actions on.Why change the job specs then, if what they were asking him to do was all part of a grand plan. Why not explain to him that this moving of palettes was essential to him getting a knowledge of what he will need to do when he will be working in a lab in a months time etc. Nah. Company hired a masters degree who wanted to be in a lab to move palettes for as long as they wanted him to.
Not that thats why the OP complained or got let go.
Also, having a masters degree stopped being special a long time ago.0
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