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Science vs religion

24

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭ BDI


    It definitely won’t be anybody’s god that they believe in now.

    Whatever you believe in or pray to, if there ever is a god found, it will not be your god and you arnt worshipping him.

    Your religion, whichever one you have, was made to give people of the time rules so they would all get on, obey the boss of the place and fight well when needed to.

    Whichever god may be out there didn’t give Moses Ten Commandments and didn’t give Jesus to the world and didn’t give the other fella we can’t draw whatever he got.

    So just carry on doing what you are doing until we find out more I suppose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,288 ✭✭✭✭ TheValeyard


    Cork_exile wrote: »
    Why does god need a spaceship?

    This never happened. Ever.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,290 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    This never happened. Ever.

    Correct. The quote was “what does God need with a starship”.

    The following lines were never said either or are quoted incorrectly;
    “Luke, I am your father”
    “Beam me up Scotty”
    “Me Tarzan, you Jane”
    “We’re going to need a bigger boat”


    Bit off topic but interesting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭ joe40


    Correct. The quote was “what does God need with a starship”.

    The following lines were never said either or are quoted incorrectly;
    “Luke, I am your father”
    “Beam me up Scotty”
    “Me Tarzan, you Jane”
    “We’re going to need a bigger boat”


    Bit off topic but interesting.

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=#&ved=2ahUKEwiQhZWO_KrkAhUUtnEKHS-1D10QwqsBMAF6BAgGEAo&usg=AOvVaw0VTJzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov

    Don't know about the others but the last quote was said.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭ uptherebels


    If you have alternative evidence then feel free to share. We already have God's message in the bible that mentions the circle of the earth and God hangs earth on nothing. This was 2,000 years ago ever before it was proven the earth was round or it hangs in space.
    You might want to read up on your history a bit, specifically on the understanding of a spherical earth.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,290 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    joe40 wrote: »

    Trivial distinction but he says you’re going to need ... not we’re.


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭ one world order


    God is the size of the universe? How would you know that god has a size at all?

    I don’t expect it to be “proven definitively”. I don’t even expect believers to propose falsifiable gods. But like everything else, I’ll reserve judgment until there’s evidence. No evidence, no consideration beyond speculation. Simple as that.

    God has revealed himself several times in the past, such as when he created the Jewish people. Even today there have being people with a terminal illness that have had an encounter with Jesus Christ, after which they find themselves cured.

    I think we were all born with the knowledge in our hearts that there is a God, but some have chosen to suppress it. Given that the mass produced mainstream media has sought to move us to an atheist society, this has resulted in a lot of people being deceived by those who work behind the scenes at the top.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,832 ✭✭✭✭ endacl


    Surely it makes sense that with all the complexity we are finding in the universe that we have gone beyond the idea of a random bang theory.
    It points to a Creator and if it was created, then so were we.

    If you’d never heard of the concept of a ‘creator’, you’d never independently come up with the notion.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 600 Lil Sally Anne Jnr.


    I'm not religious but I always find it slightly fascinating how simplistic the thinking of some science worshipers and atheists is. Life is a mystery. Science is a tool. Our current scientific model is one language of many, not THE language. These discussions are, and will always be, philosophical. Embrace the mystery.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 600 Lil Sally Anne Jnr.


    endacl wrote: »
    If you’d never heard of the concept of a ‘creator’, you’d never independently come up with the notion.

    You can't really be this naive.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭ BDI


    I'm not religious but I always find it slightly fascinating how simplistic the thinking of some science worshipers and atheists is. Life is a mystery. Science is a tool. Our current scientific model is one language of many, not THE language. These discussions are, and will always be, philosophical. Embrace the mystery.

    And it feels like home, just like a prayer your voice can take me there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭ Midster


    endacl wrote: »
    If you’d never heard of the concept of a ‘creator’, you’d never independently come up with the notion.

    Actually you couldn’t be more wrong, somebody in the very earliest part of human history began worship.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,290 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    God has revealed himself several times in the past, such as when he created the Jewish people. Even today there have being people with a terminal illness that have had an encounter with Jesus Christ, after which they find themselves cured.

    I think we were all born with the knowledge in our hearts that there is a God, but some have chosen to suppress it. Given that the mass produced mainstream media has sought to move us to an atheist society, this has resulted in a lot of people being deceived by those who work behind the scenes at the top.

    Oh right.

    Science puts itself at such a disadvantage by having such high standards of evidence by comparison to religion. You must believe all the gods and religious claims if you’re willing to accept that evidence.

    I’ll just hold on for testable evidence. If it comes then fair enough, that’s the time to take it seriously. If it doesn’t come then it’s just like everything else in the category of interesting fantasies and ideas. That’s ok by the way. No harm fanaticising about gods. But it’s wrong to twist interpretation of reality to pretend there’s good evidence for gods. Lowering the standard of evidence for gods isn’t the way to go though. If you lower the standards of evidence foreverything then you’d believe loads of things and you’d be in big trouble.


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭ one world order


    Oh right.

    Science puts itself at such a disadvantage by having such high standards of evidence by comparison to religion. You must believe all the gods and religious claims if you’re willing to accept that evidence.

    I’ll just hold on for testable evidence. If it comes then fair enough, that’s the time to take it seriously. If it doesn’t come then it’s just like everything else in the category of interesting fantasies and ideas. That’s ok by the way. No harm fanaticising about gods. But it’s wrong to twist interpretation of reality to pretend there’s good evidence for gods. Lowering the standard of evidence for gods isn’t the way to go though. If you lower the standards of evidence foreverything then you’d believe loads of things and you’d be in big trouble.

    Science has been unable to disprove the existence of a creator and the more science has been evolving the more it points to the existence of the spiritual world.

    I believe in one God and that he sent his only son into this world for forgiveness of our sins. So when you take your last breath in this world and your spirit leaves your body, will you still be asking for testable evidence on your day of judgement?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭ abff


    Science has been unable to disprove the existence of a creator

    No, but common sense does.


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭ one world order


    abff wrote: »
    No, but common sense does.

    As in your own personal suppression of the existence of God?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,290 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    Science has been unable to disprove the existence of a creator and the more science has been evolving the more it points to the existence of the spiritual world.

    I believe in one God and that he sent his only son into this world for forgiveness of our sins. So when you take your last breath in this world and your spirit leaves your body, will you still be asking for testable evidence on your day of judgement?
    Is it sciences job to disprove gods before gods provide evidence of themselves. Until then is it fair to consider it anything more than fantasy? By failing to disprove gods, they’re in the same category as everything else that can’t be tested; fairies, goblins, unicorns etc. Now if here were testable evidence of gods and the evidence failed to be disproved, then you’d be on to something.

    But that’s not how the burden of proof works. If you say there are gods then it’s on you to provide sufficient evidence. I’m sure you know that’s how it works.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭ abff


    As in your own personal suppression of the existence of God?

    I can't suppress something that doesn't exist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,832 ✭✭✭✭ endacl


    You can't really be this naive.
    In the context of the post I responded to?

    Absolutely. If a person in the modern era were never exposed to the idea of a divine creator, but were aware of the complexity of the universe, and of the trajectory of the course of knowledge and discovery that led to current understanding of that complexity, the idea of the existence, let alone a necessity for god(s), would at best seem twee and pointless.
    Midster wrote: »
    Actually you couldn’t be more wrong, somebody in the very earliest part of human history began worship.
    Which made perfect sense. In the very earliest part of human history.

    ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭ one world order


    abff wrote: »
    I can't suppress something that doesn't exist.

    You just have:(


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  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭ one world order


    Is it sciences job to disprove gods before gods provide evidence of themselves. Until then is it fair to consider it anything more than fantasy? By failing to disprove gods, they’re in the same category as everything else that can’t be tested; fairies, goblins, unicorns etc. Now if here were testable evidence of gods and the evidence failed to be disproved, then you’d be on to something.

    But that’s not how the burden of proof works. If you say there are gods then it’s on you to provide sufficient evidence. I’m sure you know that’s how it works.

    It has already been proven Jesus Christ existed, will you choose to reject that as well? If you look at the bible, it had 40 different authors between the Old and New Testament and it all points towards Christ. It has a chapter on the book of revelations and unfortunately it appears to be accurate when you look at the direction the world is heading in today. There is so much evidence all around you that you choose to reject, instead waiting for some scientist to tell you that God has existed all along, which will be too late for your soul.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭ MonkieSocks


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Alternate universes have been discovered?

    First I heard.

    You had to be there... man............it was kinda like.............ya know.................
    giphy.gif

    Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,290 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    It has already been proven Jesus Christ existed, will you choose to reject that as well? If you look at the bible, it had 40 different authors between the Old and New Testament and it all points towards Christ. It has a chapter on the book of revelations and unfortunately it appears to be accurate when you look at the direction the world is heading in today. There is so much evidence all around you that you choose to reject, instead waiting for some scientist to tell you that God has existed all along, which will be too late for your soul.

    Jesus existence has been proven now has it? That’s news to me.

    So the boom about Jesus, points towards Jesus? That’s as relevant to the conversation as the fact that the book about Muhammad and allah, points towards Muhammad and allah. And the book about the lord of the rings points to Frodo.

    I’ll just wait for the evidence and see where it leads. No evidence, no need to pretend there are gods. It’s a simple system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,277 ✭✭✭✭ Ariana Squeaking Supper


    Why bother going to a pop science forum to discuss gods? The burden of proof is on anyone who claims gods exist. They don’t have to meet that burden in the religious forums but surely they understand that they will need to have some good evidence in a science forum.

    Shoehorning gods onto things we don’t understand is as old as things we don’t understand. Not understanding things isn’t evidence for gods, though some people mistake it for evidence.

    So what's your alternative?

    Where's your proof?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,290 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    So what's your alternative?

    Where's your proof?

    What’s my alternative to what? My alternative to making up explanations for things I don’t understand is to try to find out the actual explanations.

    I don’t make the claim that god/gods exist so I don’t really need to provide evidence of their existence.

    Do you claim god/gods exist?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,277 ✭✭✭✭ Ariana Squeaking Supper


    What’s my alternative to what? My alternative to making up explanations for things I don’t understand is to try to find out the actual explanations.

    I don’t make the claim that god/gods exist so I don’t really need to provide evidence of their existence.

    Do you claim god/gods exist?

    You're being deliberately obtuse. You know exactly what my question meant.
    In case you didn't.....
    You don't believe in a Creator. So how did everything get here?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,290 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    You're being deliberately obtuse. You know exactly what my question meant.
    In case you didn't.....
    You don't believe in a Creator. So how did everything get here?

    I don’t believe in a creator.

    How did everything get here? I don’t know. I don’t claim to know everything. I’m ok with the fact that I don’t know everything. Lack of evidence to make a claim to knowledge at the moment so I don’t make a claim.

    How do you think did “everything get here”?


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭ Midster


    There's plenty of wiggle room in quantum mechanics
    The anthropic principle could be viewed as
    - the universe only exists because we are here to observe it.
    - the universe appears fine tuned for life because if it wasn't we couldn't be here to see it.

    Ok so if there wasn’t a Big Bang (according to quantum science)
    And it wasn’t created in just 7 short days by the god in the Christian holy bible.
    There is always room for a coincidental existence, that being that all the building blocks of life just happened to be here on earth in the right place at the right time billions of years ago.

    Except for, as any good police investigator will tell you. There is no such thing as coincidence, but and yet, in our case (our solar system, earth itself, evolution of human kind etc) there has been so many.

    1st) We mastered fire and learnt how to burn things
    2nd) We learnt by burning things we could also cook meat and make it a lot more tasty, and most importantly boil water.
    Fast forward >>>>>>>
    3rd) We learnt the steam made by boiling water could be pressurized which could be used in fact to make enormous things move.
    4th) We learnt also by using the same technique we could create huge amounts of electricity
    5th) We learnt by burning fossil fuels we cause pollution.
    6th) First nuclear bomb goes off
    7th) We learnt we could use nuclear power to boil water, make steam and create electric.
    8th) We begin pegging back on our air polluting ways
    9th) Solar panels and wind turbines come into effect.
    10) Creating new tech all the time, that’s better and cleaner for the environment, attempting to repair the damage previous human steps had made through 1 to 10.

    By using coal and fossil fuels, we accelerated the expansion of trade, business, infrastructure, social interactions, and most importantly, our own knowledge and technology.
    Although we caused a lot of damage by doing that, if we hadn't we would still be riding horses to work at the bread mill.

    Also thanks to our advancement, we are now inventing new green tech, which is something we could have only ever done by burning the fossil fuel in the first place.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 88,889 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight


    Midster wrote: »
    Also thanks to our advancement, we are now inventing new green tech, which is something we could have only ever done by burning the fossil fuel in the first place.
    Not sure how that post relates to the topic in question.

    But for most of history metal processing was done with wood charcoal.
    Coal was only used when they figured out how to make coke from it.

    As for no such thing as coincidence ?
    Convergent evolution would suggest otherwise. Same with technology. Lots of people came up with similar inventions at the same time. Similar conditions often result in somewhat similar solutions.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭ tim3000


    You're being deliberately obtuse. You know exactly what my question meant.
    In case you didn't.....
    You don't believe in a Creator. So how did everything get here?


    No one knows how the universe started but we can make some well informed and verifiable hypotheses about it.

    Currently all of space is expanding in every direction. This is measurable by the red shifted light from distantly accelerating stars. Using this and some complicated maths we can measure the rate of expansion.

    Now given that we know the rate of expanision and the fact that the universe is expanding we can work out that the universe is expanding from a singular point. Secondly we can estimate the age of the universe.

    From here the what remains is salient question of where matter arises from? Simply put stars make matter and release it upon death


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