DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Huzzah! · 29-08-2019 7:23pm

saffron22 wrote: »

I'm coming up on week 10 lsr 17mile sunday. Ran 13 mile last sunday 15 week before and half week before thag

On the basis you're not racing the race series half, the plan for now is to:

1. slow down all the runs
2. switch onto the Boards plan
3. slow down all the runs

And do the following LSR schedule:

wk 10: 17
wk 11: 19
wk 12: 20
wk 13: 13

And then follow the LSRs from there as laid out in the Boards plan.

eabha19 · 29-08-2019 8:16pm

py wrote: »

Ok, good to know I'm not the only one. Yesterday and today's runs were really really tough physically and mentally. When yesterday's run was rough I knew I had to get out by lunch time today to ensure it got done or it potentially could've been skipped. Really hoping the legs ease by Saturday morning as doing 24Km with current fatigue/aches is going to be a challenge. It has me a little bit concerned about whether to race the DCHM in a few weeks or not.

And me but don't have the excuse of a race last weekend. I didn't get out last night for the 8 mile telling myself because I'd too much to do before kids headed back to school today but really I was wrecked. Went out and did it after the school run and fell asleep on the couch when I got home (heavenly to do that mind you - only possible with kids back and being on a week's annual leave from work!). I think its a combo of the stress of back to school (having left everything to the last week to sort) and the thoughts of 19 miles on Saturday - at a couple of points on my run today I was thinking maybe I just can't do this and felt ready to jack it all in. Seriously training the brain is harder than the body!

ReeReeG · 29-08-2019 8:48pm

You've over 9 weeks of solid training done, the long runs are longer distances than you've ever done and your normal life has to continue. These are the weeks where it's going to feel hard alright, but you can all do it! Get through these weeks and you'll be feeling strong again soon.
I would promise it only the fear that if people aren't doing "easy" easy enough, they'll tell me I lied

ByrneDCMbrian · 29-08-2019 8:58pm

Evening folks just a quick question. I know it says race the half but would it be a good idea to run it at planned marathon pace?? Just something I was wondering about.
.

rizzee · 29-08-2019 9:01pm

Eating rings around me lately, especially after long runs. Also feeling quite stuffy/blocked nose etc the morning after them runs. Anyone else in the same boat?

ReeReeG · 29-08-2019 9:12pm

ByrneDCMbrian wrote: »

Evening folks just a quick question. I know it says race the half but would it be a good idea to run it at planned marathon pace?? Just something I was wondering about.
.

You're following the boards plan right? It already has a lot of planned MP runs so I wouldn't see a need to do it that way, but it's not mandatory that you race it! That would be a nice session at PMP in fairness, so its whether you'd like to see what target a raced HM would give you or not..

Bananaleaf · 29-08-2019 9:14pm

py wrote: »

Ok, good to know I'm not the only one. Yesterday and today's runs were really really tough physically and mentally. When yesterday's run was rough I knew I had to get out by lunch time today to ensure it got done or it potentially could've been skipped. Really hoping the legs ease by Saturday morning as doing 24Km with current fatigue/aches is going to be a challenge. It has me a little bit concerned about whether to race the DCHM in a few weeks or not.

I'm one of the ones who did Kilcock and I can tell you that, as mentioned already, I was feeling absolutely shattered the week after racing. The LSR was doable but I struggled towards the end and wondered how the hell I would manage 19 this week. But this week has been great and despite having a more hectic week than usual in my personal life, the runs have been grand.

Trust the plan, by this time next week you will be grand, but take the rest days seriously, which I'm sure you are

We are all doing so great!

ByrneDCMbrian · 29-08-2019 9:23pm

ReeReeG wrote: »

You're following the boards plan right? It already has a lot of planned MP runs so I wouldn't see a need to do it that way, but it's not mandatory that you race it! That would be a nice session at PMP in fairness, so its whether you'd like to see what target a raced HM would give you or not..

Yeah following the boards plan not 100 % but nearly. I'd more than likely go with the PMP for it. It's a hard half. Got a pb in half already this year so feel I'd rather go.with the PMP. Thanks for the advice

Mr. Guappa · 29-08-2019 10:19pm

ByrneDCMbrian wrote: »

Yeah following the boards plan not 100 % but nearly. I'd more than likely go with the PMP for it. It's a hard half. Got a pb in half already this year so feel I'd rather go.with the PMP. Thanks for the advice

It's fine to keep it to PMP if you prefer, like ReeReeG says that will still be a hell of a session, and good practice at showing the restraint required to keep the pace in check during the early stages of DCM.

My only slight concern would be that I don't think you've raced a distance over 10km since the Bohermeen Half in March? So, there might be some value in a race at a longer distance, just as a reminder of how a longer race needs to be treated a whole lot differently to the shorter stuff. That said, you've done marathons before, so you are aware of what's required to get through one.

On your pacing, just keep the PMP to 9 min/mile and easy/LSR at 10 min/mile and above. Doing that consistently will help you avoid that fall off at 20 miles you've experienced before. At your current level there's no real benefit to sticking faster stuff into runs.

Mr. Guappa · 29-08-2019 10:52pm

akenno wrote: »

Just found this thread, I have signed up for my first marathon in Dublin. I have done a few halfs in the last 3 years but first time taking on the full. I have been training fairly seriously since June for this. I have been following a work colleagues plan that has him aiming for a 3.40 marathon when all I want is a sub 4 hours.

Training has been going well, I have requested to join the strava group so if anyone wants to have a look at my runs especially the LSR's please do. The plan tends to be a recovery run on Monday, Speed Wednesday, Threshold/Temp Thursday and LSR Saturday. I'm aiming to do 36km as my longest run and I have signed up for the 3/4 marathon in Longwood in October. Hopefully this will set me up nicely for the final taper.

Getting excited now for the final push to October.

Welcome along akenno. You've been given great advice by ReeReeG about slowing down, please do take it on board, and chuck the work colleagues plan in the bin.

You mentioning the 3/4 marathon caught my eye - I hope you don't intend on racing it, or even running it at marathon pace? Run it as a LSR - i.e. slower than 6 mins/km. Anything other than that and you'll be leaving your marathon behind you in Longwood.

ByrneDCMbrian · 29-08-2019 11:14pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

It's fine to keep it to PMP if you prefer, like ReeReeG says that will still be a hell of a session, and good practice at showing the restraint required to keep the pace in check during the early stages of DCM.

My only slight concern would be that I don't think you've raced a distance over 10km since the Bohermeen Half in March? So, there might be some value in a race at a longer distance, just as a reminder of how a longer race needs to be treated a whole lot differently to the shorter stuff. That said, you've done marathons before, so you are aware of what's required to get through one.

On your pacing, just keep the PMP to 9 min/mile and easy/LSR at 10 min/mile and above. Doing that consistently will help you avoid that fall off at 20 miles you've experienced before. At your current level there's no real benefit to sticking faster stuff into runs.

Mr Guappa your right havent raced over the 10km since half in March. Know I think I'll race it just to.see how I get on. No harm in racing it. Yeah I know what I've to do this year feel a lot fitter this year.

Yeah feel the pacing is going well. Find it hard sometimes with the LSR to keep it a 10 min/mile I suppose that's from other years just running PMP all the time.

Last question promise for the half What pace should I go for if racing it ??

Mr. Guappa · 29-08-2019 11:25pm

ByrneDCMbrian wrote: »

Mr Guappa your right havent raced over the 10km since half in March. Know I think I'll race it just to.see how I get on. No harm in racing it. Yeah I know what I've to do this year feel a lot fitter this year.

Yeah feel the pacing is going well. Find it hard sometimes with the LSR to keep it a 10 min/mile I suppose that's from other years just running PMP all the time.

Last question promise for the half What pace should I go for if racing it ??

I'd probably head out at your Bohermeen pace (8min/mi) or even a touch slower, and then pick it up once it flattens out a bit after 8-9 miles?

Mr. Guappa · 30-08-2019 4:44am

rizzee wrote: »

Eating rings around me lately, especially after long runs. Also feeling quite stuffy/blocked nose etc the morning after them runs. Anyone else in the same boat?

It's pretty common to find yourself having a massive appetite as the training ramps up. Just try to ensure that the majority of what you are eating falls into the healthy category

.

Our immune systems will be in a slightly weakened state following a long run or tough session. Post-run refueling and recovery is very important. You might find the sections on sleeping and eating in this article relevant.

akenno · 30-08-2019 8:01am

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Welcome along akenno. You've been given great advice by ReeReeG about slowing down, please do take it on board, and chuck the work colleagues plan in the bin.

You mentioning the 3/4 marathon caught my eye - I hope you don't intend on racing it, or even running it at marathon pace? Run it as a LSR - i.e. slower than 6 mins/km. Anything other than that and you'll be leaving your marathon behind you in Longwood.

Thanks Mr. Guappa. Yeah I will only be doing the 3/4 at a slow pace I hope to follow and stick with the pacer – 4:00 Marathon Pace Group: Planned 3:10 for 3/4 Marathon = approx. 6′ /km = approx. 9′ 40″ /mile.

I'm doing 30km tomorrow so I'm going to try my best to slow it down to 6 min/km if not slower and see how that goes.

eabha19 · 30-08-2019 8:04am

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

It's pretty common to find yourself having a massive appetite as the training ramps up. Just try to ensure that the majority of what you are eating falls into the healthy category .

Our immune systems will be in a slightly weakened state following a long run or tough session. Post-run refueling and recovery is very important. You might find the sections on sleeping and eating in this article relevant.

Huge appetite also - despite all my running am the exact same weight due to all the eating. I started a multi vitamin today to try to help with the tiredness and generally getting about 7/7 and a half hours sleep.

Irishder · 30-08-2019 8:13am

Im injured

, absolutely devastated. Hip is very sore, managed to do 7 miles last night but felt it and this morning im in bits. Reading up it looks like a hip flexor strain. Only thing for it is ice and rest.

Hopefully a few days will heal it up. \

I was really enjoying the training and finally getting good consistency.

Laineyfrecks · 30-08-2019 9:13am

Irishder wrote: »

Im injured , absolutely devastated. Hip is very sore, managed to do 7 miles last night but felt it and this morning im in bits. Reading up it looks like a hip flexor strain. Only thing for it is ice and rest.

Hopefully a few days will heal it up. \

I was really enjoying the training and finally getting good consistency.

Sorry to hear that Irishder

Hopefully as you say with rest you will be back at it soon enough:D

Huzzah! · 30-08-2019 9:15am

Irishder wrote: »

Im injured , absolutely devastated. Hip is very sore, managed to do 7 miles last night but felt it and this morning im in bits. Reading up it looks like a hip flexor strain. Only thing for it is ice and rest.

Hopefully a few days will heal it up. \

I was really enjoying the training and finally getting good consistency.

Ah, Google would have us all thinking we were about to fall apart. Any chance you could schedule a physio appointment? No harm in ice and rest till you get to a physio.

Irishder · 30-08-2019 9:25am

Yeah ill rest it until Monday and if its no better ill get to a Physio

Sunday Runner · 30-08-2019 1:04pm

Oh Irishder i'm so sorry to read your news. Hopefully a few days of rest will see you right again.

I have a shoulder injury which is bothering me, so i've booked an appointment with the local physio. I'm the last of my siblings to see him and he is giving me the family rate. I stupidly decided to test my bench press in a competition a few weeks ago and expected to PB a weight i've never lifted before, after 2 weeks rest from weights and I pulled something. It's minor, but it flares when I run. I have been using neurofen cream, but I need to get it seen to.

I'll do a short run tonight or tomorrow morning and my long run on Sunday. I'm looking forward to the long one.

Have a great weekend everyone, happy running!

Unknownability · 30-08-2019 1:17pm

It's wicked weather in the midlands, hope it isn't like this for the Tullamore Half tomorrow.

Going to have to start deciding on what the strategy for tomorrow is and what pacing group to go with.

Supercell · 30-08-2019 1:21pm

Happy weekend all!!
There's a tough few weeks coming up, many of us will feel exhausted, tired and run down as part of it. Don't worry if that's you, its normal, you will not be the only one - it will get better in the taper as we ease off the throttle before the big day.
I'm planning on the DCM half as a fairly easyish training run pace before the final big push, racing anything from here, especially if it's your first marathon, may result in not making the start line. Try not to be that person, trust me, been there, done that.

Mr. Guappa · 30-08-2019 3:45pm

Supercell wrote: »

I'm planning on the DCM half as a fairly easyish training run pace before the final big push, racing anything from here, especially if it's your first marathon, may result in not making the start line. Try not to be that person, trust me, been there, done that.

Sorry, but it's totally misleading to suggest that racing the Half, or another race, carries some grave injury risk. As long as you are training at appropriate paces, then racing as per the plan does not carry an excessive level of risk. The injury risk comes from training too hard day after day, not from racing 13 miles.

Rossi7 · 30-08-2019 3:53pm

Supercell wrote: »

Happy weekend all!!
There's a tough few weeks coming up, many of us will feel exhausted, tired and run down as part of it. Don't worry if that's you, its normal, you will not be the only one - it will get better in the taper as we ease off the throttle before the big day.
I'm planning on the DCM half as a fairly easyish training run pace before the final big push, racing anything from here, especially if it's your first marathon, may result in not making the start line. Try not to be that person, trust me, been there, done that.

Couldn't disagree more, if your training sensibly which these novices have been to my knowledge then there is absolutely no reason why they can't race the 1/2 or any race for that matter in the lead up to the marathon. That's the whole point of the race series

Supercell · 30-08-2019 4:16pm

I'm sorry but I think you guys are giving poor advice here, I really strongly disagree.
My point is that if you are feeling tired and run down from training, racing a half before two very tough training weeks is just asking for injury.
Sure if you have a marathon under your belt and know your limits then by all means go ahead and blast all 13.1 miles, but we are talking novices here and I do think you may have lost sight of that a little.

ReeReeG · 30-08-2019 4:22pm

Supercell wrote: »

I'm sorry but I think you guys are giving poor advice here, I really strongly disagree.
My point is that if you are feeling tired and run down from training, racing a half before two very tough training weeks is just asking for injury.
Sure if you have a marathon under your belt and know your limits then by all means go ahead and blast all 13.1 miles, but we are talking novices here and I do think you may have lost sight of that a little.

Bit harsh I think...

Your original post did suggest that nobody (novice-wise) should race between now and DCM. Your point just now that if people are very tired and run down from training should abstain from racing is very valid.
But to say that no novice should race before then is not correct in my opinion. There are plenty of novices here training at appropriate paces who, while tired, will not be so run down to attempt to give the race series HM a good lash, and will also have the good sense to recover well in the week following.

I remember last year some people did choose to use it as an LSR for precisely the reasons you mention, but I also know novices who raced it and made it to DCM safely (thanks to their sensible training).

There's no blanket response yes or no, and I think we can all do well to remember that.

Treviso · 30-08-2019 4:22pm

Supercell wrote: »

I'm sorry but I think you guys are giving poor advice here, I really strongly disagree.
My point is that if you are feeling tired and run down from training, racing a half before two very tough training weeks is just asking for injury.
Sure if you have a marathon under your belt and know your limits then by all means go ahead and blast all 13.1 miles, but we are talking novices here and I do think you may have lost sight of that a little.

But you have to ask the question why would you be feeling tired and run down - the most likely answer is training paces are too fast. Yes, tiredness can happen with a plan but it's normally just for a day or two.

Supercell · 30-08-2019 4:30pm

ReeReeG wrote: »

Bit harsh I think...

Your original post did suggest that nobody (novice-wise) should race between now and DCM. Your point just now that if people are very tired and run down from training should abstain from racing is very valid.
But to say that no novice should race before then is not correct in my opinion. There are plenty of novices here training at appropriate paces who, while tired, will not be so run down to attempt to give the race series HM a good lash, and will also have the good sense to recover well in the week following.

I remember last year some people did choose to use it as an LSR for precisely the reasons you mention, but I also know novices who raced it and made it to DCM safely (thanks to their sensible training).

There's no blanket response yes or no, and I think we can all do well to remember that.

Fair comment ReeReeG, maybe I'm a bit sensitive being injured so many times. I can correlate many of them to going all out on a race and training to far too soon afterwards.
This is my third time at this and every year around now people start posting about how wrecked they are and inevitably people start getting injured as we head into the serious long distance LSR's.

I strongly feel that if you are very tired , and many will be by now, then don't race it, its inviting injury. Enjoy the event and all the comradery etc that comes from the build up, it can be a fun run while still giving some recovery for the next couple of weeks ahead and maintaining fitness reached.
If you are carrying a niggle now then racing anything and then then doing an 18 miler the next weekend is going to be not much fun.

Rossi7 · 30-08-2019 4:30pm

Supercell wrote: »

I'm sorry but I think you guys are giving poor advice here, I really strongly disagree.
My point is that if you are feeling tired and run down from training, racing a half before two very tough training weeks is just asking for injury.
Sure if you have a marathon under your belt and know your limits then by all means go ahead and blast all 13.1 miles, but we are talking novices here and I do think you may have lost sight of that a little.

I & many Novices last years seeked & benefited from the advice given here by the mentors of 2018 & managed to get around DCM all in one piece
Remind me again how you got on last year when you point blankly refused to take the advice given on here

Supercell · 30-08-2019 4:34pm

Rossi7 wrote: »

I & many Novices last years seeked & benefited from the advice given here by the mentors of 2018 & managed to get around DCM all in one piece
Remind me again how you got on last year when you point blankly refused to take the advice given on here

Way to miss my point entirely....
Lets keep the personal attacks out of this please.

DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

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