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Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

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    #3632
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Why are you personalizing everything? Have I expressed that I have been unfairly treated on platforms online?

    Youtube changed its T&C in June of 2019 just 2 months ago, so I'm still waiting to see how they implement them.

    I do not use other platforms.

    Apologies man. I inferred from your post about unfairness on YouTube as you feeling that unfairness. I never had so was wondering why people feel it and the alternatives.


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    #3633
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users Posts: 14,579 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    True. There are plenty of threads of just anonymous people talking about all sorts. The majority of threads probably


    I can understand completely though why political and social issues get so debated though and thats the great thing about living in a democratic state. Sometimes this is taken for granted and have a platform to do this.

    My main issue is people making unproven statements without fact this is where things get heated. It can often be taken from other social media platforms and taken as fact.


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    #3634
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,208 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Kimsang wrote: »
    How so Dubbie? If you show me evidence, i'll quite happily change my mind. So far all I've been told is...

    You've been told more you can only hear this mythical woke brigade that you created in your imagination and randomly accuse people of being in while claiming not supporting Nazi's is racist :pac:


    Dreams vs. Reality a case study.



    Jaysus now she is failing to understand youtube properly :pac:

    I feel this may be Gemma :pac:


  • Options
    #3635
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Youtube really has been the best social media platform for free speech, and fair treatment for all, at least until the first adpocalypse. I was so shocked just now to find out about that "way of the world" and "iconoclast" channels had been deleted I had to ask 3 times.


    Unless you know the inner workings of youtube you don't know.

    Also not all opinions should be treated fairly.


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    #3636
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Apologies man. I inferred from your post about unfairness on YouTube as you feeling that unfairness. I never had so was wondering why people feel it and the alternatives.

    I just don't like the new policies, and how they are demonetizing everyone with a political opinion(right and left). Now even that seems not enough, they are kicking off right wing types. It only leads to echo chambers. The alternatives to the popular platforms are all echo chambers, breeding hate and conspiracy more than anything that came before it. Pushing these ideas to the fringe I feel is bad for everyone.


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    #3637
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    The right will create its own version of youtube.


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    #3638
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Kimsang wrote: »
    I just don't like the new policies, and how they are demonetizing everyone with a political opinion(right and left). Now even that seems not enough, they are kicking off right wing types. It only leads to echo chambers. The alternatives to the popular platforms are all echo chambers, breeding hate and conspiracy more than anything that came before it. Pushing these ideas to the fringe I feel is bad for everyone.


    Some ideas of the left and right should be put to the fringe.


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    #3639
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users Posts: 14,579 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Kimsang wrote: »
    I didn't and you I believe I understand your position now. I was just expanding upon the points you made and explaining more in depth how they lead to echo chambers. But sorry for any offense caused.

    No offence caused at all. I was just trying to point out in the part you quoted me I was trying to explain how a platform like boards is much better for discussion.

    To address your point about YouTube though I usually avoided the comment section as I thought in some cases it became a cesspit of comments and went beyond free speech and became a free for all.


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    #3640
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    Kimsang wrote: »
    I just don't like the new policies, and how they are demonetizing everyone with a political opinion(right and left). Now even that seems not enough, they are kicking off right wing types. It only leads to echo chambers. The alternatives to the popular platforms are all echo chambers, breeding hate and conspiracy more than anything that came before it. Pushing these ideas to the fringe I feel is bad for everyone.

    And what are the alternatives to the popular platforms then? What's the opposite to youtube say. Thanks for taking the time.


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    #3641
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Some ideas of the left and right should be put to the fringe.

    What do you mean by 'put to the fringe', in respect to social media platforms.


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    #3642
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    john4321 wrote: »
    No offence caused at all. I was just trying to point out in the part you quoted me I was trying to explain how a platform like boards is much better for discussion.

    To address your point about YouTube though I usually avoided the comment section as I thought in some cases a cesspit of comments and went beyond free speech and became a free for all.

    Perhaps it is a better platform for discussion, but maybe boards works better because it is 'policed' and has a smaller community than big platforms.

    Certainly I have seen the cesspits of which you speak, but that's just it - I close it. I don't think those places should be removed, deleted, banned. People should be allowed to say what they want to say as long as it doesn't impede on another person's rights. The most resolute defenders of free speech profess we're not allowed to harm others to get what we want. That's why we're not allowed to use speech for force, fraud, or defamation.
    No-one is arguing for these to be allowed.
    So I don't agree with your beyond free speech point. Which Iloveyourvibes also made.


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    #3643
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users Posts: 14,579 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Perhaps it is a better platform for discussion, but maybe boards works better because it is 'policed' and has a smaller community than big platforms.

    Certainly I have seen the cesspits of which you speak, but that's just it - I close it. I don't think those places should be removed, deleted, banned. People should be allowed to say what they want to say as long as it doesn't impede on another person's rights. The most resolute defenders of free speech profess we're not allowed to harm others to get what we want. That's why we're not allowed to use speech for force, fraud, or defamation.
    No-one is arguing for these to be allowed.
    So I don't agree with your beyond free speech point. Which Iloveyourvibes also made.

    Can you expand on your "policed" comment? I dont get it as I always just try and post by the "don't be a dick" mantra.

    I haven't asked or requested for places to be removed, banned etc. I just dont think it should be carte blanche in what people say and think you agree with me on that point.


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    #3644
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    john4321 wrote: »
    Can you expand on your "policed" comment? I dont get it as I always just try and post by the "don't be a dick" mantra.

    I haven't asked or requested for places to be removed, banned etc. I just dont think it should be carte blanche in what people say and think you agree with me on that point.

    I mean there are moderators on boards, and not on big platforms, because employing moderators for twitter or youtube would bankrupt those companies. These moderators do the policing, by reviewing things under the law, and according to their own charter.

    I don't agree with you though, I think people should be allowed to say and think whatever they like. Especially the people I disagree with the most. Which for the most part boards has been since its inception.


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    #3645
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users Posts: 14,579 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Kimsang wrote: »
    I mean there are moderators on boards, and not on big platforms, because employing moderators for twitter or youtube would bankrupt those companies.

    I do disagree with you though, I think people should be allowed to say and think whatever they like. Especially the people I disagree with the most.


    I believe moderators on Boards are unpaid volunteers and as part of the community do this in their spare time which is gratefully appreciated by the majority of users otherwise it turns into another YouTube comment section.

    I'm not sure if you are serious about your second reply though. I genuinely hope not as I dont agree that being able to say anything you want about anyone anonymously. For a very simplistic example I post a video on YouTube of my cat (just an FYI I don't own a cat) of them doing a handstand I dont think its appropriate for someone to comment I want me and my cat to die.


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    #3646
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    john4321 wrote: »
    I believe moderators on Boards are unpaid volunteers and as part of the community do this in their spare time which is gratefully appreciated by the majority of users otherwise it turns into another YouTube comment section.

    I'm not sure if you are serious about your second reply though. I genuinely hope not as I dont agree that being able to say anything you want about anyone anonymously. For a very simplistic example I post a video on YouTube of my cat (just an FYI I don't own a cat) of them doing a handstand I dont think its appropriate for someone to comment I want me and my cat to die.

    With your first paragraph I completely agree, I was only noting that boards was 'policed' while the big platforms were not.

    I am very serious that people should be free to think and say as they wish. The reason is I don't trust anyone else to decide what I am free to think and say, do you?
    I have seen far too many mistakes committed in the name of censorship. I would prefer people could not offend you or your imaginary cat in this way, and if they cross the line into threatening you I would fully support the weight of the law against them.

    But casting out fringe opinions will only embolden them, without people around to challenge them anymore. Like how Nazism is currently on the rise in Germany, because talk of or political paraphernalia are banned.

    It's akin to the Streisand effect,
    Is a phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet.


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    #3647
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    And what are the alternatives to the popular platforms then? What's the opposite to youtube say. Thanks for taking the time.

    Not having been on either of these, but I hear for twitter you could have gab, or youtube something like subscribestar.


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    #3648
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Kimsang wrote: »
    With your first paragraph I completely agree, I was only noting that boards was 'policed' while the big platforms were not.

    I am very serious that people should be free to think and say as they wish. The reason is I don't trust anyone else to decide what I am free to think and say, do you?
    I have seen far too many mistakes committed in the name of censorship. I would prefer people could not offend you or your cat in this way, and if they cross the line into threatening you I would fully support the weight of the law against them.

    But casting out fringe opinions will only embolden them, without people around to challenge them anymore. Like how Nazism is currently on the rise in Germany, because talk of or political paraphernalia are banned.

    It's akin to the Streisand effect,

    You are free to say and think as you like. Its more the way you say it i have noticed.


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    #3649
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users Posts: 14,579 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Kimsang wrote: »
    With your first paragraph I completely agree, I was only noting that boards was 'policed' while the big platforms were not.

    I am very serious that people should be free to think and say as they wish. The reason is I don't trust anyone else to decide what I am free to think and say, do you?
    I have seen far too many mistakes committed in the name of censorship. I would prefer people could not offend you or your cat in this way, and if they cross the line into threatening you I would fully support the weight of the law against them.


    But casting out fringe opinions will only embolden them, without people around to challenge them anymore. Like how Nazism is currently on the rise in Germany, because talk of or political paraphernalia are banned.

    It's akin to the Streisand effect,


    This is the part I was referring to earlier and the ability of users on other platforms to silence these opinions via the block function. I'm not just talking about fringe opinions though it's the ability to reply and challenge them.

    Also on the policed part I was under the impression that Boards operates like the larger social media platforms where you have the option to report something and it is subject to review.


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    #3650
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    john4321 wrote: »
    This is the part I was referring to earlier and the ability of users on other platforms to silence these opinions via the block function. I'm not just talking about fringe opinions though it's the ability to reply and challenge them.

    Black Mirror's "White Christmas" was the best episode. It was about a dystopian future where we had the ability to block people in real life. I fully agree with you.
    john4321 wrote: »
    Also on the policed part I was under the impression that Boards operates like the larger social media platforms where you have the option to report something and it is subject to review.

    In that respect they operate the same, this type of passive moderation.

    But boards also has active moderation, reporting and appeals process etc... and far higher moderator:user ratio.


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    #3651
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    You are free to say and think as you like. Its more the way you say it i have noticed.

    To an extent I agree with both your points. As to your second point I do try... Its not always easy when you have an opposing opinion to a mob that willfully misrepresents you.

    We are however not free to say quite a few things now on boards that meet the definition of free speech.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110819869&postcount=1229
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109041788&postcount=1


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    #3652
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Kimsang wrote: »
    To an extent I agree with both your points. As to your second point I do try... Its not always easy when you have an opposing opinion to a mob that willfully misrepresents you.

    We are however not free to say quite a few things now on boards that meet the definition of free speech.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110819869&postcount=1229
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109041788&postcount=1






    But boards never claims to be a platform for free speech in fairness though. Its a privately owned site with mods who have their own ideas of what is right and wrong.

    Boards has its place online. So do other sites though.


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    #3653
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    But boards never claims to be a platform for free speech in fairness though. Its a privately owned site with mods who have their own ideas of what is right and wrong.

    Boards has its place online. So do other sites though.

    Yes but they've mostly acted within a well defined charter. No matter what the opinion of the moderator, they would allow the discussion as long as you're playing the ball and not the man.

    But now you can conflate men with any bad thing you can think of.. toxic masculinity, they are bad, lazy, smelly, they are the oppressors..etc..
    But if you conflate lgbt with paedophilia that is not allowed.

    You can openly express your disgust for christianity, but not so free when it comes to Islam. These kinds of rules only came about recently.

    You can also now play the man, if the man is on the other side of the argument to the mob around here. (example stephen being called a racist)


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    #3654
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Yes but they've mostly acted within a well defined charter. No matter what the opinion of the moderator, they would allow the discussion as long as you're playing the ball and not the man.

    But now you can conflate men with any bad thing you can think of.. toxic masculinity, they are bad, lazy, smelly, they are the oppressors..etc..
    But if you conflate lgbt with paedophilia that is not allowed.

    You can openly express your disgust for christianity, but not so free when it comes to Islam. These kinds of rules only came about recently.

    You can also now play the man, if the man is on the other side of the argument to the mob around here. (example stephen being called a racist)


    I think its because some people really pushed the boat out and abused that freedom.

    I think if i conflated men in general with pedophilia the mods wouldn't allow it.

    If i said gay people were lazy and the gay scene was toxic sometimes they might allow it.


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    #3655
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I think its because some people really pushed the boat out and abused that freedom.
    Who pushed the boat out and abused that freedom? And what harm did that ultimately cause?

    I think it's because of the rise in grievance studies on universities in the last few decades. This leads to boards being afraid of a backlash from a small vocal 'woke' community. E.g. "Boards allows racists to rant about their racist stuff"
    Before this would not have had a reaction. No one would have cared. We would have said people are free to say what they want.
    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I think if i conflated men in general with pedophilia the mods wouldn't allow it.
    You can conflate them with whatever you like. I went on at length for dozens of pages in other threads about it. Try maybe the homophobic attack on london bus thread. They were free to generalize 'men' as the attackers despite the maximum age of the attacker being 17. Men are this, men are this etc.. was all perfectly acceptable.
    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    If i said gay people were lazy and the gay scene was toxic sometimes they might allow it
    Maybe, but you would be bringing a world of pain on yourself. I think a more sensitive subject might be talking about TERFS, try that one let me know how you get on :D


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    #3656
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Who pushed the boat out and abused that freedom? And what harm did that ultimately cause?

    I think it's because of the rise in grievance studies on universities in the last few decades. This leads to boards being afraid of a backlash from a small vocal 'woke' community. E.g. "Boards allows racists to rant about their racist stuff"
    Before this would not have had a reaction. No one would have cared. We would have said people are free to say what they want.


    You can conflate them with whatever you like. I went on at length for dozens of pages in other threads about it. Try maybe the homophobic attack on london bus thread. They were free to generalize 'men' as the attackers despite the maximum age of the attacker being 17. Men are this, men are this etc.. was all perfectly acceptable.


    Maybe, but you would be bringing a world of pain on yourself. I think a more sensitive subject might be talking about TERFS, try that one let me know how you get on :D
    To be fair I had noticed previously on boards some things went on that were clearly over the line regarding racism. Or even just plain decency.

    Some of the things said in the greta thunberg thread were out of line. And the mods had to act.

    Honestly I never felt i needed political correctness because there are just somethings i would never say about people.


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    #3657
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

    Some of the things said in the greta thunberg thread were out of line. And the mods had to act.
    .

    Any chance you could link me here or by PM or even just a relevant search word to find what you're talking about. I'd be interested in what is too far and I'm not familiar with that thread.


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    #3658
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    To be fair I had noticed previously on boards some things went on that were clearly over the line regarding racism. Or even just plain decency.

    What you sent me certainly crossed the line of decency and I'm happy to see the person punished- comments like that add nothing to the discussion.

    I'm curious, would you say this has crossed the line of decency?
    Numerous people have called Stephen a racist. I think it is equally as disgusting as what you sent me.
    Walter Bishop wrote: »
    Hardly a surprise Stephen, as like her, you're a racist.

    Mod: Please stop reporting this post. Stephen15 has admitted he is a racist.

    When in fact he didn't admit he was a racist. He said it tongue-in-cheek to challenge the definition of racist.


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    #3659
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Not having been on either of these, but I hear for twitter you could have gab, or youtube something like subscribestar.

    Cheers for that - I signed up to Gab this morning - it's an experience! Yikes


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    #3660
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    Could this thread go back to being about Gemma. Thanks.


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    #3661
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,998 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Kimsang wrote: »
    No, the ones that believe it don't have the integrity to say it.................ll




    And do you use a pendulum or ouija board to detect what people are thinking but not saying?


This discussion has been closed.
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