The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

ToBeFrank123 · 15-08-2019 11:29AM

blanch152 wrote: »

I have already explained why it isn't the same group of players that was there in 2013.

Also you are not looking at the group, you are only looking at the first 15 (or even 14 in some cases).

There hasn't been a significant turnover of players. 16 of the 26 in the panel for the 2015 final were in the 26 last Saturday. Another few - Brogan, O'Gara, O'Carroll - are still in the squad but didn't make the 26. Only 10 of the Kerry 26 from 2015 are still there. The turnover in Dublin has been less than any other county, because of the special nature of that group.

The starting 15 is far more relevant when talking about turnover of players.

Brogan, O'Gara and O'Carroll are not good enough to make the squad for serious games anymore. They were included for the sham friendly match with Tyrone which no-one treated seriously.

kilns · 15-08-2019 11:34AM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The starting 15 is far more relevant when talking about turnover of players.

Brogan, O'Gara and O'Carroll are not good enough to make the squad for serious games anymore. They were included for the sham friendly match with Tyrone which no-one treated seriously.

What a ridiculous comment only the first 15 count, it’s not 1981

ToBeFrank123 · 15-08-2019 11:39AM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Slight point of order, that would be a return to the new normal, and only what should be expected of Dublin football.

Plus an All Ireland for the hurlers

I'm getting the feeling of gaming the system here and tilting the balance so Dublin are guaranteed to win AIs on a regular basis.

If ever something demonstrates how farcical gaelic football has become its this.

One county who feel they are entitled to win 2-4 AIs per decade and go to the GAA cap in hand to make it happen. And sadly the GAA are dumb enough to embrace the idea.

Gaming the system, pure and simple. Happened in the past and as you say the new normal.

Can't ye just win it like everyone else? And not need a helping hand or a digout from the GAA to win it.

odyssey06 · 15-08-2019 11:56AM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I'm getting the feeling of gaming the system here and tilting the balance so Dublin are guaranteed to win AIs on a regular basis.
If ever something demonstrates how farcical gaelic football has become its this.
One county who feel they are entitled to win 2-4 AIs per decade and go to the GAA cap in hand to make it happen. And sadly the GAA are dumb enough to embrace the idea.
Gaming the system, pure and simple. Happened in the past and as you say the new normal.
Can't ye just win it like everyone else? And not need a helping hand or a digout from the GAA to win it.

There's no gaming of the system here or financial doping.

Just stating what the expectations of trophies for the Dublin senior football team should be, and should have been since the mid 80s. It's not an entitlement, I am sure Kerry and Kilkenny in different codes have had the same expectations.
In past decades some very good Dublin teams came up against once in a generation great teams of Kerry, Meath and then the storm from Ulster and just fell short. Take them out of the equation and Dublin would have had more than 1 AI per decade. There were just a manager who could manage the pressure of the squad or one top player short.
This is Dublin's time in the sun to sweep up the AIs. It's happened in the past, and the other teams time will come again.

Now that the engine has found fifth gear, you could halve the funding or double the funding, I don't think it will change how many AIs per decade Dublin footballers should be taking home per decade.
If games development funding encourages more participation in hurling, and those hurlers get Dublin up to the same level as the established hurling powers, they should be in the mix-up for All Irelands as much as Limerick, Wexford etc. And this would be a good thing for hurling in the country.

ToBeFrank123 · 15-08-2019 12:04PM

My own view is the death of gaelic football was assured when soccer fans like Bertie Ahern got involved and tried to buy success for his county (like the EPL soccer teams buy success).

Soccer fan Bertie hoped to professionalise coaching in Dublin and make it the exception to all other counties.

Gaelic football then became a sport where the county with the most financial clout in coaching and development would ultimately rule.

ToBeFrank123 · 15-08-2019 12:07PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

There's no gaming of the system here or financial doping.

Just stating what the expectations of trophies for the Dublin senior football team should be, and should have been since the mid 80s. It's not an entitlement, I am sure Kerry and Kilkenny in different codes have had the same expectations.
In past decades some very good Dublin teams came up against once in a generation great teams of Kerry, Meath and then the storm from Ulster and just fell short. Take them out of the equation and Dublin would have had more than 1 AI per decade. There were just a manager who could manage the pressure of the squad or one top player short.
This is Dublin's time in the sun to sweep up the AIs. It's happened in the past, and the other teams time will come again.

Now that the engine has found fifth gear, you could halve the funding or double the funding, I don't think it will change how many AIs per decade Dublin footballers should be taking home per decade.
If games development funding encourages more participation in hurling, and those hurlers get Dublin up to the same level as the established hurling powers, they should be in the mix-up for All Irelands as much as Limerick, Wexford etc. And this would be a good thing for hurling in the country.

They came up against very good teams and lost. The solution is for the Dublin teams to work harder. Not to go cap in hand to the government or GAA, or for a Dublin fan like Bertie to offer them millions as a digout.

Its blatant gaming the system. Ye couldn't win fairly so need millions as a digout just so you could win what was expected.

It completely takes the unknown element out of sport when you say Dublin should be winning more AIs and so should get more investment.

Gaelic football was a once great sport that was ruined by the rigging and gaming of the system that happened, mainly instituted and funded by Bertie.

kilns · 15-08-2019 12:12PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

My own view is the death of gaelic football was assured when soccer fans like Bertie Ahern got involved and tried to buy success for his county (like the EPL soccer teams buy success).

Soccer fan Bertie hoped to professionalise coaching in Dublin and make it the exception to all other counties.

Gaelic football then became a sport where the county with the most financial clout in coaching and development would ultimately rule.

Soccer fan Bertie do you hear yourself! You hatred of all things Dublin is laughable! I bet you are one of those too that would hate Leinster in rugby and cheer against them no matter who they are playing and moan when players from there are picked for Ireland just because they represent big bad Dublin

ciarang85 · 15-08-2019 12:13PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

My own view is the death of gaelic football was assured when soccer fans like Bertie Ahern got involved and tried to buy success for his county (like the EPL soccer teams buy success).

Soccer fan Bertie hoped to professionalise coaching in Dublin and make it the exception to all other counties.

Gaelic football then became a sport where the county with the most financial clout in coaching and development would ultimately rule.

We have heard this over and over in this thread and others already.

And it still is exactly as you say it is, your "own view"

kilns · 15-08-2019 12:13PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

They came up against very good teams and lost. The solution is for the Dublin teams to work harder. Not to go cap in hand to the government or GAA, or for a Dublin fan like Bertie to offer them millions as a digout.

Its blatant gaming the system. Ye couldn't win fairly so need millions as a digout just so you could win what was expected.

It completely takes the unknown element out of sport when you say Dublin should be winning more AIs and so should get more investment.

Gaelic football was a once great sport that was ruined by the rigging and gaming of the system that happened, mainly instituted and funded by Bertie.

In others Gaelic Football is great when Dublin aren’t winning right get you

RoyalCelt · 15-08-2019 12:23PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah same tactic and despite this it has not worked in hurling - where is the senior hurling all-ireland?
It did not happen.
Why because the Dubs with them were not good enough - the funding obviously didnt work - or else Ger Cunningham would have pushed on from Dalo's era.
It did not happen.
Did they spend it wrong?

Cuala in contrast are an oasis in Dublin hurling in Dalkey of all places.
Why are they doing so well?
They have great players Con O'Callaghan, a Kerryman, and even a fella who grew up in Zimbabwe.
It is obvious those traditional hurling strongholds aided Cuala :rolleyes:

Seriously it comes down to the management and structure allied to the players
Micko lifted Laois, Kildare, Wicklow
Fitzy lifted Wexford
Pete McGrath lifted Fermanagh
McGunness lifted Donegal

Just like Gavin lifts Dublin he has taken them on to the next level.

You just ignored my point about Dublin having players who grew up in Meath.

That point about hurling is utter cods wallop. Your footballers went from making all Ireland semis to making and winning finals.

Your hurlers went from nobodies to winning leinster, national league and making all Ireland semi and quarter finals. Currently there is very little between Dublin and the best teams in the country. Don't even try and deny the special funding Dublin got didn't greatly improve hurling.

RoyalCelt · 15-08-2019 12:25PM

If Dublin win this year and next year they'll have won 8 of the AI's this decade. I can't see the 20's being any different. I wouldn't be surprised if Dublin won all 10 and made it 18 AI in 20 years. I wonder would the Dublin fans admit there's a problem then regarding their unfair advantages.

ToBeFrank123 · 15-08-2019 12:27PM

ciarang85 wrote: »

We have heard this over and over in this thread and others already.

And it still is exactly as you say it is, your "own view"

The stats back it up. Dublin weak before Bertie's financial assistance, in his own words. Strong once the funds took hold.

No mystery in that, financial doping is well proven in a number of sports - soccer, cycling, motor sports, rugby and many others including now GAA.

Professional coaches in particular make a huge difference.

bucketybuck · 15-08-2019 12:30PM

RoyalCelt wrote: »

If Dublin win this year and next year they'll have won 8 of the AI's this decade. I can't see the 20's being any different. I wouldn't be surprised if Dublin won all 10 and made it 18 AI in 20 years. I wonder would the Dublin fans admit there's a problem then regarding their unfair advantages.

Seen that question asked already and I think it has merit.

If 7 out of 9 is just a special group of players, at what point does that reason no longer hold? 8 out of 10? 11 out of 14? 15 out of 20?

largepants · 15-08-2019 12:34PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not true look at Cork they let themselves fall to divison 3, Meath let themselves slide.
Kildare had a great crop of players who were not brought on because of poor management - tactics which did not get the best out of the players.
Compare the Galway teams dire tactical approach v Corofin it is night and day.

To say that Dublin's rise has not being aided in part by poor planning and management and foresight in other counties is just living in denial.
It was there for all to see.

Speaking of ridiculous arguments.

gormdubhgorm · 15-08-2019 12:35PM

I decided to go over the Dublin AI teams to see the players that are still there and play regularly - either as sub or starting 15.

2011 - 10 players from nearly a decade ago are still there are in starting or as a sub.
The ones in blue are still regular in the interest of fairness I left out DC.
(This team was lucky to win the AI in my view against the run of play - but it was the inspiration of what was to follow)

S. Cluxton, C. O’Sullivan, R. O’Carroll, M. Fitzsimons, J. McCarthy, G. Brennan, K. Nolan, D. Bastick,MD. MacAuley, P. Flynn, B. Cahill, B. Cullen, A. Brogan, D. Connolly, B. Brogan. Subs: P. McMahon for McCarthy, K. McManamon for Flynn, E. O’Gara for Cahill, E. Fennell for Bastick.

2013 - McCaffery, Killkenny, Cooper, Mannion, Andrews, Rock, and Daly were added. Daly hampered by injuries since unfortunately - but an exceptional group of to come through.

That is seven players added.

They took the 2011 old core to the next level - this is the once in a generation group of lads in my view

S Cluxton, P. McMahon, R. O’Carroll, J Cooper, J McCarthy, G Brennan, J McCaffrey, MD. MacAuley, C O’Sullivan, P. Flynn, C Kilkenny, D Connolly, P Mannion, P Andrews, B. Brogan. Subs: E. O’Gara for Mannion, Darren Daly for McCaffrey, Dean Rock for Kilkenny, K. McManamon for Andrews, D. Bastick for Cooper

2015 -

Two players were added - Raheny's/Maybe Dublin's greatest player of all time Fenton, and John Small from the Mun.

S Cluxton; J Cooper, R. O’Carroll, P. McMahon; J McCarthy, C O’Sullivan, J McCaffrey; B. Fenton, D. Bastick; P. Flynn, D Connolly, C Kilkenny; P Andrews, D Rock, B. Brogan. Subs: K. McManamon for Rock, MD. MacAuley for Bastick, M. Fitzsimons for Cooper, J Small for McCaffrey, D Daly for O'Sullivan, A. Brogan for Fenton

2016 -

Two players added.

A sprinkling of Royal County was added which obviously made all the difference in Lowndes. Who is a fringe player.

The zip and trickery of Costello was added - after years of injury hampered seasons - but he won the game with his three points. Interestingly Both were dual players and were part of the 2011 Minor hurling and football teams. Costello was the pick of them along with Kilkenny - (another dual star). Though Rock has won the battle over Costello in the starting 15 it seems.

S Cluxton, P McMahon, J Copper, M Fitzsimons, J McCarthy, C O’Sullivan, J Small, B. Fenton, P. Flynn, P Andrews, K. McManamon, C Kilkenny, D Rock, D Connolly, P Mannion.Subs: D Byrne for Cooper, B. Brogan for Andrews, MD. MacAuley for Mannion, C Costello for McManamon, E Lowndes for Small, D Daly for O’Sullivan.

2017 -

Two players were added

Con O'Callaghan who was marked out as a dual superstar at underage - another loss to the senior hurlers.
And the find that surprised everyone Niall Scully from Templeogue- who was 'found' from an O'Byrne cup run.

S Cluxton, J Copper, P McMahon, M Fitzsimons, J Small, C O’Sullivan, J McCaffrey, B. Fenton, J McCarthy, C Kilkenny, D Rock, C O'Callaghan, P Andrews, E. O’Gara, P Mannion Subs: P. Flynn for McCaffrey, D Connolly for Andrews, K. McManamon for O'Gara, B. Brogan for Paul Flynn, N Scully for O'Callaghan, C Costello for Mannion.

2018 -

Two players added.

The tigerish Murchan was added from Na Fianna last year, and another Raheny Rolls Royce Brian Howard - Maybe Raheny's best player? The funny part is the rest of that Raheny team is no great shakes bar Howard/Fenton. The rest are now veterans of Dublin's 2011 minors.

Stephen Cluxton; Philly McMahon, Jonny Cooper, Eoin Murchan; John Small, Cian O’Sullivan, Jack McCaffrey; Brian Fenton, James McCarthy; Niall Scully, Con O’Callaghan, Brian Howard; Paul Mannion, Ciaran Kilkenny, Dean Rock. Subs: Michael Fitzsimons for Cian O’Sullivan (27), Cormac Costello for Niall Scully (53), Kevin McManamon for Paul Mannion (58), Darren Daly for Eoin Murchan (58), Eric Lowndes for Jonny Cooper (64), Michael Darragh MacAuley for Dean Rock (67).

So what can I see from this.
Dublin are still reliant on the core from the 2011 team -ten/eleven players
The 2013 influx was an exceptional group.
Those seven players make added make up the majority of the panel as we have it now.
And after that Dublin were blessed to find Scully, Howard, Fenton, Con O'Callaghan in particular.

But a further three things are clear -

1) The senior hurlers are losing players - Kilkenny, Costello, Con O'Callaghan, E.Lowndes.

2) The number of players coming through is not the same as the 2013 group -

3) Dublin are not doing as well at underage - take this year for example.
Dublin have not won this years minor walloped by Mayo in the QF - didn't even make the semis!
And made eejits of themselves in the u20 final where they collapsed against Cork - when they had a huge lead

largepants · 15-08-2019 12:38PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

posters are being badly stung by thier lack of GAA knowledge the Darcy one always shows them up.

I'm not being badly stung at all. The fact of the matter is that Darcy played with Leitrim before Dublin. Why focus on Darcy? No mention of the other players I mentioned?

If you had any GAA knowledge you'd know that Brian Lacey, Karl O'Dwyer and Brian Murphy were/are involved in Kildare GAA long after they retired.

But that doesn't suit your 'ridiculous argument' does it?

odyssey06 · 15-08-2019 12:39PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The stats back it up. Dublin weak before Bertie's financial assistance, in his own words. Strong once the funds took hold.
No mystery in that, financial doping is well proven in a number of sports - soccer, cycling, motor sports, rugby and many others including now GAA.
Professional coaches in particular make a huge difference.

The sports listed are either professional sports where competitors have free agency and can be lured using higher wages and\or are technical based sports where expensive equipment and technical research are fully expected to translate to on track success. There are fundamentally different to an amateur, field based sport where players must meet eligibility requirements to play.

And besides, even if financial doping did occur in these other sports, it would prove neither the contention that it applies to GAA in general or Dublin in particular.

blanch152 · 15-08-2019 12:41PM

largepants wrote: »

I'm not being badly stung at all. The fact of the matter is that Darcy played with Leitrim before Dublin. Why focus on Darcy? No mention of the other players I mentioned?

If you had any GAA knowledge you'd know that Brian Lacey, Karl O'Dwyer and Brian Murphy were/are involved in Kildare GAA long after they retired.

But that doesn't suit your 'ridiculous argument' does it?

I love it when somebody doubles down on their discredited point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declan_Darcy

Declan Darcy has been heavily involved in Dublin football long after his retirement, including with Jim Gavin.

ToBeFrank123 · 15-08-2019 12:46PM

RoyalCelt wrote: »

If Dublin win this year and next year they'll have won 8 of the AI's this decade. I can't see the 20's being any different. I wouldn't be surprised if Dublin won all 10 and made it 18 AI in 20 years. I wonder would the Dublin fans admit there's a problem then regarding their unfair advantages.

We all know the answer to that, and unless something radical happens, we also know Dublin will win most if not all of the AIs in the next decade.

By then however, AI finals will be played on front of a half empty Croker. And the GAA led death spiral will continue. I'm looking forward to how the GAA raise funds in the future. Probably more Gareth Brooks concerts! Because they certainly won't be raising it from GAA matches.

blanch152 · 15-08-2019 12:49PM

RoyalCelt wrote: »

If Dublin win this year and next year they'll have won 8 of the AI's this decade. I can't see the 20's being any different. I wouldn't be surprised if Dublin won all 10 and made it 18 AI in 20 years. I wonder would the Dublin fans admit there's a problem then regarding their unfair advantages.

That is completely ridiculous. Dublin are close to peak this year. It is hard to tell whether the performance has slightly dropped or not - we will see in a couple of weeks - but it will be very difficult to win again next year.

As for the next decade or two, the minors just aren't there. We will be back to a period of Kerry dominance. Meath and Kildare will break the sequence of Dublin wins in Leinster soon enough, but I can't see Kerry being stopped in Munster.

ToBeFrank123 · 15-08-2019 12:51PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

The sports listed are either professional sports where competitors have free agency and can be lured using higher wages and\or are technical based sports where expensive equipment and technical research are fully expected to translate to on track success. There are fundamentally different to an amateur, field based sport where players must meet eligibility requirements to play.

And besides, even if financial doping did occur in these other sports, it would prove neither the contention that it applies to GAA in general or Dublin in particular.

Not really. Most of these teams from different sports start off by buying the best coaches. That is the starting point. They then either train up young players or buy players.
In athletics, and sports like gymnastics, swimming, etc etc, we know its all about having the best coaches.

The modern GAA by the way is heavily dependent on sports science which does not come cheap. Its also heavily dependent on coaching as many people as possible at a high level, which also doesn't come cheap. No other county has a hope of competing with Dublin when it comes to the professional coaching setup and professional approach in clubs. It costs money counties simply do not have.

Subsidising GDOs and professional coaches at already rich Dublin clubs is hugely wrong. It needs to stop for any credibility to be returned to the sport.

largepants · 15-08-2019 12:51PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I love it when somebody doubles down on their discredited point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declan_Darcy

Declan Darcy has been heavily involved in Dublin football long after his retirement, including with Jim Gavin.

:rolleyes: Do you seriously think I don't know that Darcy is involved with Dublin? Honestly like? I guess I have to explain it now.

The original point was that a Dublin poster was pontificating about players from other counties playing elsewhere. My point (Darcy included) was that Dublin have had their fair share of them.

Both of you can come down off the pulpit now.

ArielAtom · 15-08-2019 12:59PM

I really love the way the main posters have as yet come up with a plan, they merely whinge. Come up with a plan, present to your club, present it to you county board and get it put forward at congress. But firstly you need to be a member of the association. Otherwise you have zero right to put a proposal forward.

bucketybuck · 15-08-2019 01:00PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So what can I see from this.

I don't know why people keep making this argument or what it is supposed to represent?

If a side is totally dominant in their league and being properly managed, then what changes should you expect to see every year?

The answer is that you should see 1/2 new players brought in every year to replace older players and anybody falling out of form, this maintains the competition for places, keeps the average age stable and refreshes the team without disrupting the team. The players brought in should always be the best of those coming though, again maintaining and encouraging the competition to even get into the squad.

Thats what I would expect from any dominant team in any sport, and its exactly what you have outlined in your post. Dublin had a dominant team, they add 1/2 new players each year and those players coincidentally just happen to be some of the best players in the country. Now 5/6 years later they still have the dominant team with a stable average age.

Its exactly what we should expect to see from a well resourced and well run sports team, I don't understand how it is anything but evidence that this entire situation isn't going to continue on for a long time yet.

LuckyLloyd · 15-08-2019 01:00PM

riemann wrote: »

It would seem a lot of Dublin fans are getting their panties in a twist as they are beginning to realise most people are and will judge this Dublin team as the result of financial doping, and quite possibly other forms of doping if rumors are to be believed.

They may as well have an asterix beside them.

Similar as to how Celtic and PSG win every year, and yet no one outside of their fan bases cares one iota. Also see Marseilles and Juventus. Oh and Lance Armstrong.

Sport is about many things; heart, skill, dedication, passion. Not how much money one has.

In reality most Dublin fans are looking forward to crushing Kerry to be confirmed as the greatest team ever. Gonna be a great day out in a couple of weeks.

ozzy jr · 15-08-2019 01:02PM

Not a GAA fan myself, but I've been reading this thread with interest.

What is the Dublin fans view on this dominance? Do you want to see 10 in a row, 15 in a row?

I'm thinking of Scottish football. It's a foregone conclusion every season. Celtic will win the league and probably will for at least the next 5 seasons. It's dull.

A bit of competition makes the game better all round, I think.

gormdubhgorm · 15-08-2019 01:04PM

ArielAtom wrote: »

I really love the way the main posters have as yet come up with a plan, they merely whinge. Come up with a plan, present to your club, present it to you county board and get it put forward at congress. But firstly you need to be a member of the association. Otherwise you have zero right to put a proposal forward.

Oh sure we were told there is no point much more can be achieved by whining on boards.ie it seems

ToBeFrank123 · 15-08-2019 01:04PM

ArielAtom wrote: »

I really love the way the main posters have as yet come up with a plan, they merely whinge. Come up with a plan, present to your club, present it to you county board and get it put forward at congress. But firstly you need to be a member of the association. Otherwise you have zero right to put a proposal forward.

Did you bother to read the entire thread? Numerous posters have come up with numerous plans mainly around a fair distribution of funding but also issues around dealing with home advantage. The funding issue was put to John Horan recently and he said outright he didn't think there was a problem. That's what you are dealing with. You can come up with a hundred great plans but if the guys at the top have their fingers in their ears and heads in the sand, nothing is going to happen and the problems continue.

gormdubhgorm · 15-08-2019 01:07PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't know why people keep making this argument or what it is supposed to represent?

If a side is totally dominant in their league and being properly managed, then what changes should you expect to see every year?

The answer is that you should see 1/2 new players brought in every year to replace older players and anybody falling out of form, this maintains the competition for places, keeps the average age stable and refreshes the team without disrupting the team. The players brought in should always be the best of those coming though, again maintaining and encouraging the competition to even get into the squad.

Thats what I would expect from any dominant team in any sport, and its exactly what you have outlined in your post. Dublin had a dominant team, they add 1/2 new players each year and those players coincidentally just happen to be some of the best players in the country. Now 5/6 years later they still have the dominant team with a stable average age.

Its exactly what we should expect to see from a well resourced and well run sports team, I don't understand how it is anything but evidence that this entire situation isn't going to continue on for a long time yet.

How are Dublin totally dominant who won the all-irleland club football in three of the last four years?

Who won five in a row minors?

Who won the u20 competition in the last two years?

Who won the league in the last two years?

bucketybuck · 15-08-2019 01:09PM

ArielAtom wrote: »

I really love the way the main posters have as yet come up with a plan, they merely whinge. Come up with a plan, present to your club, present it to you county board and get it put forward at congress. But firstly you need to be a member of the association. Otherwise you have zero right to put a proposal forward.

There is no plan, proposal or fantasy that is ever going to allow my county to compete with Dublin, they have ten times more of everything that matters and thats a simple fact.

Its one thing to say get your club to put forward proposals, but until the GAA as a whole understands what the real problem is then putting forward proposals is like suggesting we try a different colour of paint while the house is burning down.

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1