The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But you are confusing cause and effect - Kilkenny were not underachieving.
St Kieran's college is thier academy of sorts and that was thier hurling school.

Dublin were underachieving they were not being run properly overall - they had no plan no structure - basically a sleeping giant.
Now they are and this has coincided with the best generation of players ever seen - so it is a perfect storm of sorts.

Also as I have pointed out if it was solely due to funding - Dublin would be going for five in a row in the club football, club hurling and inter-county hurling.
But that is not the case - why? because the players are not as good at those levels/codes, and throwing money at players does not make them beat all comers all of sudden.

I know your argument is purely based on cutting funding.
Which is fair enough.
That is your point of view and it does have some validity considering the state of some counties.

But the less enlightened posters on this thread go one step further and say Dublin 'brought titles' - and Jim Gavin has had nothing to do with Dublin's success.
There are no praise for the players from such people - which is a bit pathetic
It is just plain daft, and it demonstrates to me the level of hatred and jealousy some have towards a great man, a great team, and great people.
Which is sad in many ways, but such is life.

If Dublin wanted to buy a title they would have forward line with Clifford-Murphy in it etc. It would be Parnell's 2008 moneybags on an inter-county scale - players getting transfers to Dublin clubs - and playing for Dublin.

Ironically if any person could be accused of the closest thing to buying players was Micko.
At Kildare he got Lacey - from Tipp - his son O'Dwyer from Kerry (Kerry were even talking of wanting Karol back) etc
Micko would get players from anywhere he could, using his charisma
That is part of the reason why they rose so fast.

O'Dwyer also got Sheehan to transfer to Laois from Kerry.
And he got Thomas Walsh to transfer from Carlow to Wicklow.

That is nothing akin to what Dublin are doing, they are doing it the natural way not poaching players. A special group of lads who played through the age groups together and happened click under a class manager.

Ryan O'Dwyer, Declan Darcy, John Timmons, Mikey Quinn.

Need me to go on?

largepants wrote: »

Ryan O'Dwyer, Declan Darcy, John Timmons, Mikey Quinn.

Need me to go on?

Declan Darcy from Dublin who went down to Leitrim and improved them?

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/able-lieutenant-declan-darcy-looking-to-nail-proven-blueprint-1.3611756

Happyilylost wrote: »

I think the point being made is trying to portray Dublin GAA as whiter than white is an exercise in futility. I'm sure if we closely examine the Dublin Hurling team over the years we'll find a few strays too.

Niall Corcoran....Galway,
Ryan O'Dwyer.....Tipp,
Also the Kerry lad, I think its O'Connell

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is nothing akin to what Dublin are doing, they are doing it the natural way not poaching players. A special group of lads who played through the age groups together and happened click under a class manager.

A special group of lads thst went through the ages together?
Sorry, but this very obviously factually inaccurate. We were told the same thing about the guys who were winning in 11 and 13. Most of those guys arent in the team now.
What you have is another 'special group of lads who came through the ages together', and then another.
Doesnt take a genius to work of that 3 special groups in a row, all of a sudden starts to make the word 'special' seem a bit suspect. If it is happening all the time then it isnt special.

What is actually happening is the level of the players coming through has improved dramatically due to the level of professional coaching that the government and the rest of the gaa have co-funded for Dublin. No special group blarney, just the way it is now.

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I don’t want to focus on personalities.

The main thing we need to debate is the sheer amount of money pumped into Dublin over the last 15

Not arguing the toss over whether someone is modest or not.

Exactly right

Dublin have won....

7 titles out of the last 30 which they challenged for...

They are on a roll now and have won 4 in a row...

They have a very exceptional set of footballers and a great desire and drive.

It’s a team for the ages.

It won’t always be.

Money is not a factor

The factors are..drive, desire, effort, efficiency, hard work, dedication

Do other counties not put in similar effort ? Maybe but it’s paying greater dividends in Dublin...


Instead of criticizing, embrace it, it’s a team for the ages.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

A special group of lads thst went through the ages together?
Sorry, but this very obviously factually inaccurate. We were told the same thing about the guys who were winning in 11 and 13. Most of those guys arent in the team now.
What you have is another 'special group of lads who came through the ages together', and then another.
Doesnt take a genius to work of that 3 special groups in a row, all of a sudden starts to make the word 'special' seem a bit suspect. If it is happening all the time then it isnt special.

What is actually happening is the level of the players coming through has improved dramatically due to the level of professional coaching that the government and the rest of the gaa have co-funded for Dublin. No special group blarney, just the way it is now.

Three special groups in a row? What a load of nonsense, to be expected. Where did you get the idea there were three special groups? Making up ridiculous arguments doesn't get you anywhere. That is up there with your claim that Aslan playing at half-time is an unfair advantage to Dublin.

Many of the lads in 2011 and 2013 had been on the road for a long time and had been repeatedly and rightly accused of underachievement. Dublin, with their population, history and structure, should normally be winning 2-4 football All-Irelands every decade. If they are badly organised or badly managed, they have a decade like the 1990s or 2000s when they win one All-Ireland in 20 years.

The early part of this decade saw a reversion to the norm, with Dublin winning 2 All-Irelands in four years. What happened since, though is a once-in-a generation set of players arriving in 2015. Look at the players replaced from the 2011.

With all due respect to the likes of Ger Brennan, Kevin Nolan, Denis Bastick, Barry Cahill and Bryan Cullen etc. they are no Johnny Cooper, Jack McCaffrey, Brian Fenton, Ciaran Kilkenny, Paul Mannion, and latterly Con O'Callaghan. These latter players are all-time greats compared to the 2011 names. It is not surprising that the 2015 team is better than the 2011 team given the players that have appeared on it. That is very similar to what happened in 1978 when Micko took the best of his 1975 team and married it with a once-in-a-generation infusion of young talent.

It is also not surprising that the 2015 team has largely stayed together and that the likes of Ciaran Reddin, Conor McHugh, Colm Basquel, Andrew McGowan, Shane Carthy etc. have not been able to get on the team, (even though they are good enough for inter-county football). Those players are mid-20s and can't force the other older all-time greats out of the team. Comerford is another example, he looks a better keeper than anything that Mayo have, but in front of him is possibly the greatest ever Gaelic footballer, and certainly the greatest goalkeeper of all time.

This is a very special group of players. 16 of the 26 who lined out in the 2015 final are still there. Most of the others from that 26 are still with the panel. They are led by the greatest Dublin manager, again all due respect to Kevin Heffernan.

By the 2020s, we should see a reversion to the norm and Dublin winning 2-4 All-Ireland during that decade.

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Didn't some of your footballers grow up in Meath? Didn't some of your hurlers come from Tipp and elsewhere? Not sure why you are acting that Dublin are different to any other county in this regard.

Yeah same tactic and despite this it has not worked in hurling - where is the senior hurling all-ireland?
It did not happen.
Why because the Dubs with them were not good enough - the funding obviously didnt work - or else Ger Cunningham would have pushed on from Dalo's era.
It did not happen.
Did they spend it wrong?

Cuala in contrast are an oasis in Dublin hurling in Dalkey of all places.
Why are they doing so well?
They have great players Con O'Callaghan, a Kerryman, and even a fella who grew up in Zimbabwe.
It is obvious those traditional hurling strongholds aided Cuala :rolleyes:

Seriously it comes down to the management and structure allied to the players
Micko lifted Laois, Kildare, Wicklow
Fitzy lifted Wexford
Pete McGrath lifted Fermanagh
McGunness lifted Donegal

Just like Gavin lifts Dublin he has taken them on to the next level.

jmayo wrote: »

If only you were so quick to chastise posters who effectively labeled a bunch of inter-county players of taking expenses fraudently. :rolleyes:



The Dublin team of 2013 had average age of under 25.
During the subsequent all Ireland s 2015-17 the average age of the Dublin team was 26.9 years.
Not sure about 2018, but in the semi final last year the average age was 26.1 years.

Up to 2018 just 6 players had started every All-Ireland under Jim Gavin.

So does the average age of a team lowering mean they are improving?
That is not true.
The younger players who come in may not be as good as the older ones.
Your own county Mayo is a prime example of reliance on experience.
If you look at Dublin's bench they are the same old stagers who are hanging on DC/BB, Kevin Mc, Philly, EOG lads in thier 30's they invaribly come on for the 20 minutes and play crucial roles.

If lowering the age of a team meant it would be successful why do Kerry not just play all thier minors?
In 2013 the Gooch was still Kerry's best player, Vinny Murphy was a critical sub back in 2001, An old Ollie Murphy was critical for Meath, Andy Moran in your own county, an old Peter Canavan for Tyrone.

Plus Cluxton is ancient why has he not being got rid of surely Comeford is better because he is younger by your logic?

If you took your logic to it's full extent these older players are making the team worse and the team would naturally be better with younger lads.
The real truth is is that the age of a squad is misleading.
The fringes of the Dublin team change like he McHugh's but by and large the same 21 lads or so are used all the time. The rest of the panel is filler.

Most Dub fans could rattle off the 21 by heart because it rarely changes.

I find it very ironic that a Mayo fan of all people is ageist about gaelic football.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Yes. And in the case of counties with logistical issues far more. But these counties are scraping by with funds they mostly raise themselves. They don't have the unlimited resources to train the next generation and its the next generation who dictate future success.

Not true look at Cork they let themselves fall to divison 3, Meath let themselves slide.
Kildare had a great crop of players who were not brought on because of poor management - tactics which did not get the best out of the players.
Compare the Galway teams dire tactical approach v Corofin it is night and day.

To say that Dublin's rise has not being aided in part by poor planning and management and foresight in other counties is just living in denial.
It was there for all to see.

blanch152 wrote: »

Three special groups in a row? What a load of nonsense, to be expected. Where did you get the idea there were three special groups? Making up ridiculous arguments doesn't get you anywhere. That is up there with your claim that Aslan playing at half-time is an unfair advantage to Dublin.

Many of the lads in 2011 and 2013 had been on the road for a long time and had been repeatedly and rightly accused of underachievement. Dublin, with their population, history and structure, should normally be winning 2-4 football All-Irelands every decade. If they are badly organised or badly managed, they have a decade like the 1990s or 2000s when they win one All-Ireland in 20 years.

The early part of this decade saw a reversion to the norm, with Dublin winning 2 All-Irelands in four years. What happened since, though is a once-in-a generation set of players arriving in 2015. Look at the players replaced from the 2011.

With all due respect to the likes of Ger Brennan, Kevin Nolan, Denis Bastick, Barry Cahill and Bryan Cullen etc. they are no Johnny Cooper, Jack McCaffrey, Brian Fenton, Ciaran Kilkenny, Paul Mannion, and latterly Con O'Callaghan. These latter players are all-time greats compared to the 2011 names. It is not surprising that the 2015 team is better than the 2011 team given the players that have appeared on it. That is very similar to what happened in 1978 when Micko took the best of his 1975 team and married it with a once-in-a-generation infusion of young talent.

It is also not surprising that the 2015 team has largely stayed together and that the likes of Ciaran Reddin, Conor McHugh, Colm Basquel, Andrew McGowan, Shane Carthy etc. have not been able to get on the team, (even though they are good enough for inter-county football). Those players are mid-20s and can't force the other older all-time greats out of the team. Comerford is another example, he looks a better keeper than anything that Mayo have, but in front of him is possibly the greatest ever Gaelic footballer, and certainly the greatest goalkeeper of all time.

This is a very special group of players. 16 of the 26 who lined out in the 2015 final are still there. Most of the others from that 26 are still with the panel. They are led by the greatest Dublin manager, again all due respect to Kevin Heffernan.

By the 2020s, we should see a reversion to the norm and Dublin winning 2-4 All-Ireland during that decade.

Mod sticky this post! This is the best and most detailed explanation I have seen - it is there in black and white - well Blue and Navy.

largepants wrote: »

Ryan O'Dwyer, Declan Darcy, John Timmons, Mikey Quinn.

Need me to go on?

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Declan Darcy from Dublin who went down to Leitrim and improved them?

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/able-lieutenant-declan-darcy-looking-to-nail-proven-blueprint-1.3611756

posters are being badly stung by thier lack of GAA knowledge the Darcy one always shows them up.

Strumms wrote: »

Dublin have won....

7 titles out of the last 30 which they challenged for...

They are on a roll now and have won 4 in a row...

How disingenuous is that?

7 in 30? Why not say 6 out of the last 8 and soon to be 7 out of 9, which would be a far more relevant stat and would be far more pertinent to the discussion at hand?