odyssey06 wrote: » The sports listed are either professional sports where competitors have free agency and can be lured using higher wages and\or are technical based sports where expensive equipment and technical research are fully expected to translate to on track success. There are fundamentally different to an amateur, field based sport where players must meet eligibility requirements to play. And besides, even if financial doping did occur in these other sports, it would prove neither the contention that it applies to GAA in general or Dublin in particular.
RoyalCelt wrote: » If Dublin win this year and next year they'll have won 8 of the AI's this decade. I can't see the 20's being any different. I wouldn't be surprised if Dublin won all 10 and made it 18 AI in 20 years. I wonder would the Dublin fans admit there's a problem then regarding their unfair advantages.
largepants wrote: » I'm not being badly stung at all. The fact of the matter is that Darcy played with Leitrim before Dublin. Why focus on Darcy? No mention of the other players I mentioned? If you had any GAA knowledge you'd know that Brian Lacey, Karl O'Dwyer and Brian Murphy were/are involved in Kildare GAA long after they retired. But that doesn't suit your 'ridiculous argument' does it?
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » The stats back it up. Dublin weak before Bertie's financial assistance, in his own words. Strong once the funds took hold. No mystery in that, financial doping is well proven in a number of sports - soccer, cycling, motor sports, rugby and many others including now GAA. Professional coaches in particular make a huge difference.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » posters are being badly stung by thier lack of GAA knowledge the Darcy one always shows them up.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Not true look at Cork they let themselves fall to divison 3, Meath let themselves slide. Kildare had a great crop of players who were not brought on because of poor management - tactics which did not get the best out of the players. Compare the Galway teams dire tactical approach v Corofin it is night and day. To say that Dublin's rise has not being aided in part by poor planning and management and foresight in other counties is just living in denial. It was there for all to see.
ciarang85 wrote: » We have heard this over and over in this thread and others already. And it still is exactly as you say it is, your "own view"
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Yeah same tactic and despite this it has not worked in hurling - where is the senior hurling all-ireland? It did not happen. Why because the Dubs with them were not good enough - the funding obviously didnt work - or else Ger Cunningham would have pushed on from Dalo's era. It did not happen. Did they spend it wrong? Cuala in contrast are an oasis in Dublin hurling in Dalkey of all places. Why are they doing so well? They have great players Con O'Callaghan, a Kerryman, and even a fella who grew up in Zimbabwe. It is obvious those traditional hurling strongholds aided Cuala :rolleyes: Seriously it comes down to the management and structure allied to the players Micko lifted Laois, Kildare, Wicklow Fitzy lifted Wexford Pete McGrath lifted Fermanagh McGunness lifted Donegal Just like Gavin lifts Dublin he has taken them on to the next level.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » They came up against very good teams and lost. The solution is for the Dublin teams to work harder. Not to go cap in hand to the government or GAA, or for a Dublin fan like Bertie to offer them millions as a digout. Its blatant gaming the system. Ye couldn't win fairly so need millions as a digout just so you could win what was expected. It completely takes the unknown element out of sport when you say Dublin should be winning more AIs and so should get more investment. Gaelic football was a once great sport that was ruined by the rigging and gaming of the system that happened, mainly instituted and funded by Bertie.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » My own view is the death of gaelic football was assured when soccer fans like Bertie Ahern got involved and tried to buy success for his county (like the EPL soccer teams buy success). Soccer fan Bertie hoped to professionalise coaching in Dublin and make it the exception to all other counties. Gaelic football then became a sport where the county with the most financial clout in coaching and development would ultimately rule.
odyssey06 wrote: » There's no gaming of the system here or financial doping. Just stating what the expectations of trophies for the Dublin senior football team should be, and should have been since the mid 80s. It's not an entitlement, I am sure Kerry and Kilkenny in different codes have had the same expectations. In past decades some very good Dublin teams came up against once in a generation great teams of Kerry, Meath and then the storm from Ulster and just fell short. Take them out of the equation and Dublin would have had more than 1 AI per decade. There were just a manager who could manage the pressure of the squad or one top player short. This is Dublin's time in the sun to sweep up the AIs. It's happened in the past, and the other teams time will come again. Now that the engine has found fifth gear, you could halve the funding or double the funding, I don't think it will change how many AIs per decade Dublin footballers should be taking home per decade. If games development funding encourages more participation in hurling, and those hurlers get Dublin up to the same level as the established hurling powers, they should be in the mix-up for All Irelands as much as Limerick, Wexford etc. And this would be a good thing for hurling in the country.
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » I'm getting the feeling of gaming the system here and tilting the balance so Dublin are guaranteed to win AIs on a regular basis. If ever something demonstrates how farcical gaelic football has become its this. One county who feel they are entitled to win 2-4 AIs per decade and go to the GAA cap in hand to make it happen. And sadly the GAA are dumb enough to embrace the idea. Gaming the system, pure and simple. Happened in the past and as you say the new normal. Can't ye just win it like everyone else? And not need a helping hand or a digout from the GAA to win it.
odyssey06 wrote: » Slight point of order, that would be a return to the new normal, and only what should be expected of Dublin football. Plus an All Ireland for the hurlers
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » The starting 15 is far more relevant when talking about turnover of players. Brogan, O'Gara and O'Carroll are not good enough to make the squad for serious games anymore. They were included for the sham friendly match with Tyrone which no-one treated seriously.
blanch152 wrote: » I have already explained why it isn't the same group of players that was there in 2013. Also you are not looking at the group, you are only looking at the first 15 (or even 14 in some cases). There hasn't been a significant turnover of players. 16 of the 26 in the panel for the 2015 final were in the 26 last Saturday. Another few - Brogan, O'Gara, O'Carroll - are still in the squad but didn't make the 26. Only 10 of the Kerry 26 from 2015 are still there. The turnover in Dublin has been less than any other county, because of the special nature of that group.
blanch152 wrote: » By the 2020s, we should see a reversion to the norm and Dublin winning 2-4 All-Ireland during that decade.
Chalk McHugh wrote: » Some stamina ye have lads to go over the same aul stuff, hour after hour, day after day, week after week. It never seems to end. Admirable staying power it must be said. Most certainly a marathon and not a sprint.
Strumms wrote: » Dublin have won.... 7 titles out of the last 30 which they challenged for... They are on a roll now and have won 4 in a row...
largepants wrote: » Ryan O'Dwyer, Declan Darcy, John Timmons, Mikey Quinn. Need me to go on?
BonnieSituation wrote: » Declan Darcy from Dublin who went down to Leitrim and improved them?https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/able-lieutenant-declan-darcy-looking-to-nail-proven-blueprint-1.3611756
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » If the average age was 25 in 2013, you'd expect the average age to be 31 in 2019 if it was the same group of players. In reality its now something like 27. Which indicates a significant turnover in players. It would be even worse if compared to 2011. There's actually nothing wrong with this. All the top teams turn over players on an ongoing basis. But to claim its essentially the same team is disingenuous.
blanch152 wrote: » Three special groups in a row? What a load of nonsense, to be expected. Where did you get the idea there were three special groups? Making up ridiculous arguments doesn't get you anywhere. That is up there with your claim that Aslan playing at half-time is an unfair advantage to Dublin. Many of the lads in 2011 and 2013 had been on the road for a long time and had been repeatedly and rightly accused of underachievement. Dublin, with their population, history and structure, should normally be winning 2-4 football All-Irelands every decade. If they are badly organised or badly managed, they have a decade like the 1990s or 2000s when they win one All-Ireland in 20 years. The early part of this decade saw a reversion to the norm, with Dublin winning 2 All-Irelands in four years. What happened since, though is a once-in-a generation set of players arriving in 2015. Look at the players replaced from the 2011. With all due respect to the likes of Ger Brennan, Kevin Nolan, Denis Bastick, Barry Cahill and Bryan Cullen etc. they are no Johnny Cooper, Jack McCaffrey, Brian Fenton, Ciaran Kilkenny, Paul Mannion, and latterly Con O'Callaghan. These latter players are all-time greats compared to the 2011 names. It is not surprising that the 2015 team is better than the 2011 team given the players that have appeared on it. That is very similar to what happened in 1978 when Micko took the best of his 1975 team and married it with a once-in-a-generation infusion of young talent. It is also not surprising that the 2015 team has largely stayed together and that the likes of Ciaran Reddin, Conor McHugh, Colm Basquel, Andrew McGowan, Shane Carthy etc. have not been able to get on the team, (even though they are good enough for inter-county football). Those players are mid-20s and can't force the other older all-time greats out of the team. Comerford is another example, he looks a better keeper than anything that Mayo have, but in front of him is possibly the greatest ever Gaelic footballer, and certainly the greatest goalkeeper of all time. This is a very special group of players. 16 of the 26 who lined out in the 2015 final are still there. Most of the others from that 26 are still with the panel. They are led by the greatest Dublin manager, again all due respect to Kevin Heffernan. By the 2020s, we should see a reversion to the norm and Dublin winning 2-4 All-Ireland during that decade.
