The Sub 3 Support Thread

OOnegative wrote: »

Can I ask ye sub 3 lads, what was yer weight roughly when ye made that breakthrough?

Berlin 2017 was 152

Frankfurt last year 157 think that was my ideal weight felt better.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

But that would defeat the principle of cumulative fatigue. If you stretch and bend a plan then it's not the plan anymore. It's a different plan. It's called the Hansons method. You recover just enough to get through the Thursday session then have 2 easy days before the LR. Doesn't matter how you skin a week because 3 sessions a 4 easy/recovery days. You could put 2 days between your midweek session but that leaves just a day between tempo day and LR day.

Stretching out to 20 weeks and 8 day cycles might be an idea if you are happy doing your LR on a different day every week. You would need to structure the pattern back to the race week over the last few week's.

Hansons do have a 20 week plan with 18-20m LRs but it still basically follows the method!

Appendix A of the book talks more about scaling the plan/method up to 'elite' level - including 9 day cycle, longer recover periods, longer LRs etc. Worth a look for anyone looking to modify but still keeping within the principles.

Did a marathon on May 25th in 3.10 and considering training with sub 3 in mind for DCM. Am looking at the P&D 55-70 plan. Any advice on when to kick off with the plan or more to the point, how soon is too soon to go back into a full plan.?

Sheep1978 wrote:

Did a marathon on May 25th in 3.10 and considering training with sub 3 in mind for DCM. Am looking at the P&D 55-70 plan. Any advice on when to kick off with the plan or more to the point, how soon is too soon to go back into a full plan.?

I got my first sub 3 on that plan but limited it to the 12 week version. Had a good base built up heading into it which you'd have.

Tommy Max wrote: »

what mileage are you guys presently doing and what pace you doing long runs?

There's a difficulty in answering this as any comparison is meaningless due to the fact that we're all coming from different places.

For me - I'll be upto 60miles this week hopefully and my long run will be probably 15 miles.
The pace wont be relevant as I'm doing my LR as a session due to the fact that I'm pacing the Castleknock 5k as part of it.

Last week I done 14 miles - 11 at about 7.45 and the last 3 at 7 to 6.45 min/miles.

I know people who have went sub 3 who have long runs where they run about 11-12 miles at 8.30 pace and then do a 6m tempo at the end.
The pace of long runs also depends on what you've done that week or the day before.

So its a difficult variable without context.

AuldManKing wrote: »

There's a difficulty in answering this as any comparison is meaningless due to the fact that we're all coming from different places.

For me - I'll be upto 60miles this week hopefully and my long run will be probably 15 miles.
The pace wont be relevant as I'm doing my LR as a session due to the fact that I'm pacing the Castleknock 5k as part of it.

Last week I done 14 miles - 11 at about 7.45 and the last 3 at 7 to 6.45 min/miles.

I know people who have went sub 3 who have long runs where they run about 11-12 miles at 8.30 pace and then do a 6m tempo at the end.
The pace of long runs also depends on what you've done that week or the day before.

So its a difficult variable without context.

Great post - just to add to it


There really isn't one right way to run your long runs as it really depends on the structure of your week.

There people that never go below 8 min \miles for their long runs because the rest of their week dictates that but also because they have specific strengths\weaknesses to address

There are people that will lock in and hold mid 7 minute pace for the entire run, because the rest of the week allows for it

There are people that will run faster again because it makes sense to run steady paced long runs with the structure of their week.

It really depends on your background and the way you've structured your week, i.e. if you are running intense track sessions, a long tempo style session and high mileage, running long steady runs week in week out probably isn't going to be sustainable ( unless you're a very well developed athlete)

I'd say you have a very realistic chance, assuming that you train properly

squinn2912 wrote: »

Course you can do it. That 5m looks well out of sync with the other times. What was different?

maybe just the timing - very early in the year. I don;t remember too much else except for struggling in mile 4. That being said, I think trim was only a week later

Duanington wrote: »

Great post - just to add to it


There really isn't one right way to run your long runs as it really depends on the structure of your week.

There people that never go below 8 min \miles for their long runs because the rest of their week dictates that but also because they have specific strengths\weaknesses to address

There are people that will lock in and hold mid 7 minute pace for the entire run, because the rest of the week allows for it

There are people that will run faster again because it makes sense to run steady paced long runs with the structure of their week.

It really depends on your background and the way you've structured your week, i.e. if you are running intense track sessions, a long tempo style session and high mileage, running long steady runs week in week out probably isn't going to be sustainable ( unless you're a very well developed athlete)

I'm following a personal plan which the aim is sub 3, haven't gone over 12.5 for a long run so far

healy1835 wrote: »

You're running Dublin right? Any more details on the plan for us mileage, sessions etc.

Over 50 atm increasing each week, most weeks have 2 sessions (tempo, intervals & hills) long run Sunday generally at around 7.15/7.20 pace with faster last 2 miles usually, all other days would be easy runs 8/10 miles, 6 days a week now but some 7 day weeks coming up

Anyone feel there's any point / benefit in running 400/500m reps at this stage in DCM training.? Can they still be beneficial.?

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Anyone feel there's any point / benefit in running 400/500m reps at this stage in DCM training.? Can they still be beneficial.?

It depends on the indivudual's background in my view, lots of plans will keep 400s\500s in the plan right up until taper but then others will ditch them in favour of longer reps.

Personally, I think think they serve a purpose, it can be hard to grind out 400s after a few weeks of heavy mileage and they really do test the resolve mentally as well as keeping turnover in reasonable shape. Not sure I'd be a fan of running them weekly from now until DCM though

Ranleth wrote: »

Doing my 1st marathon in Dublin and following this plan: https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/marathon/a760127/rws-ultimate-marathon-schedule-sub-300/

Just wondering for anyone that's ran it before, how long is the course compared to the "official" 26.2 mile (42.2 kilometer)?
I understand not everyone runs the same racing line but a 1% difference is a lot over that distance.

42.20 in 2:59:59 is 04:16 average pace
42.62 in 2:59:59 is 04:13 average pace

I'm not targeting a 2:59:59 exactly but I'd hate to run a 4:15 average and miss out by a few seconds...

Pretty sure the racing line would be exactly 26.2 miles but then every
one else would run over by varying degrees

Ranleth wrote: »

Doing my 1st marathon in Dublin and following this plan: https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/marathon/a760127/rws-ultimate-marathon-schedule-sub-300/

Just wondering for anyone that's ran it before, how long is the course compared to the "official" 26.2 mile (42.2 kilometer)?
I understand not everyone runs the same racing line but a 1% difference is a lot over that distance.

42.20 in 2:59:59 is 04:16 average pace
42.62 in 2:59:59 is 04:13 average pace

I'm not targeting a 2:59:59 exactly but I'd hate to run a 4:15 average and miss out by a few seconds...

Just go with the pacers and enjoy the ride.