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The Sub 3 Support Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭ noelearly


    OOnegative wrote: »
    Can I ask ye sub 3 lads, what was yer weight roughly when ye made that breakthrough?

    Berlin 2017 was 152

    Frankfurt last year 157 think that was my ideal weight felt better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭ AuldManKing


    .......................... ;)

    :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

    Forgot that conversation!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 610 ✭✭✭ kerrylad1


    OOnegative wrote: »
    Can I ask ye sub 3 lads, what was yer weight roughly when ye made that breakthrough?
    Exactly 9 stone.Think it was 2015 when I got the 2:59:55.I'm the same weight now.I could eat like a horse and not gain weight.I'm very tall as you know,5ft 7.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭ AuldManKing


    Jaysus - I went sub 3 carrying a few bags of sugar compared to you lot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,791 ✭✭✭ Murph_D


    But that would defeat the principle of cumulative fatigue. If you stretch and bend a plan then it's not the plan anymore. It's a different plan. It's called the Hansons method. You recover just enough to get through the Thursday session then have 2 easy days before the LR. Doesn't matter how you skin a week because 3 sessions a 4 easy/recovery days. You could put 2 days between your midweek session but that leaves just a day between tempo day and LR day.

    Stretching out to 20 weeks and 8 day cycles might be an idea if you are happy doing your LR on a different day every week. You would need to structure the pattern back to the race week over the last few week's.

    Hansons do have a 20 week plan with 18-20m LRs but it still basically follows the method!

    Appendix A of the book talks more about scaling the plan/method up to 'elite' level - including 9 day cycle, longer recover periods, longer LRs etc. Worth a look for anyone looking to modify but still keeping within the principles.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭ shotgunmcos


    OOnegative wrote: »
    Can I ask ye sub 3 lads, what was yer weight roughly when ye made that breakthrough?

    5'11"
    12.5 stone
    2:58:50
    41yrs old

    I probably have a better build for throwing a javelin than marathon running sub3


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ Sheep1978


    Did a marathon on May 25th in 3.10 and considering training with sub 3 in mind for DCM. Am looking at the P&D 55-70 plan. Any advice on when to kick off with the plan or more to the point, how soon is too soon to go back into a full plan.?


  • Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭ noelearly


    Sheep1978 wrote: »
    Did a marathon on May 25th in 3.10 and considering training with sub 3 in mind for DCM. Am looking at the P&D 55-70 plan. Any advice on when to kick off with the plan or more to the point, how soon is too soon to go back into a full plan.?

    If it was me i wouldn't even be thinking about a block until mid July 14 weeks out. In your case 12 weeks is plenty still in your legs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭ Bahanaman


    Sheep1978 wrote:
    Did a marathon on May 25th in 3.10 and considering training with sub 3 in mind for DCM. Am looking at the P&D 55-70 plan. Any advice on when to kick off with the plan or more to the point, how soon is too soon to go back into a full plan.?


    I got my first sub 3 on that plan but limited it to the 12 week version. Had a good base built up heading into it which you'd have.


  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭ Tommy Max


    what mileage are you guys presently doing and what pace you doing long runs?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭ AuldManKing


    Tommy Max wrote: »
    what mileage are you guys presently doing and what pace you doing long runs?

    There's a difficulty in answering this as any comparison is meaningless due to the fact that we're all coming from different places.

    For me - I'll be upto 60miles this week hopefully and my long run will be probably 15 miles.
    The pace wont be relevant as I'm doing my LR as a session due to the fact that I'm pacing the Castleknock 5k as part of it.

    Last week I done 14 miles - 11 at about 7.45 and the last 3 at 7 to 6.45 min/miles.

    I know people who have went sub 3 who have long runs where they run about 11-12 miles at 8.30 pace and then do a 6m tempo at the end.
    The pace of long runs also depends on what you've done that week or the day before.

    So its a difficult variable without context.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭ squinn2912



    There's a difficulty in answering this as any comparison is meaningless due to the fact that we're all coming from different places.

    For me - I'll be upto 60miles this week hopefully and my long run will be probably 15 miles.
    The pace wont be relevant as I'm doing my LR as a session due to the fact that I'm pacing the Castleknock 5k as part of it.

    Last week I done 14 miles - 11 at about 7.45 and the last 3 at 7 to 6.45 min/miles.

    I know people who have went sub 3 who have long runs where they run about 11-12 miles at 8.30 pace and then do a 6m tempo at the end.
    The pace of long runs also depends on what you've done that week or the day before.

    So its a difficult variable without context.

    Still interesting to see and compare. I think it's important to point out at the moment that there's lots of time to go.

    I did Belfast a month ago and I've picked up every niggle and sniffle since. So my miles are low. This week life is being allowed to get in the way a bit and I'll do around 30 miles. Next week closer to 40 and I'll see where I am or ring a coach then.

    On the long run, if Dublin is the aim then I'd get the miles in at easy pace perhaps even until the end of July. If you're injury free then maybe you want to do a few miles at MP I think it's loads to do 5k at the end of the long run around MP. My training seems to differ a fair bit from a lot of good runners on here but it's down to yourself and what you think will maximize your ability for Race Day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,885 ✭✭✭ Duanington



    There's a difficulty in answering this as any comparison is meaningless due to the fact that we're all coming from different places.

    For me - I'll be upto 60miles this week hopefully and my long run will be probably 15 miles.
    The pace wont be relevant as I'm doing my LR as a session due to the fact that I'm pacing the Castleknock 5k as part of it.

    Last week I done 14 miles - 11 at about 7.45 and the last 3 at 7 to 6.45 min/miles.

    I know people who have went sub 3 who have long runs where they run about 11-12 miles at 8.30 pace and then do a 6m tempo at the end.
    The pace of long runs also depends on what you've done that week or the day before.

    So its a difficult variable without context.


    Great post - just to add to it


    There really isn't one right way to run your long runs as it really depends on the structure of your week.

    There people that never go below 8 min \miles for their long runs because the rest of their week dictates that but also because they have specific strengths\weaknesses to address

    There are people that will lock in and hold mid 7 minute pace for the entire run, because the rest of the week allows for it

    There are people that will run faster again because it makes sense to run steady paced long runs with the structure of their week.

    It really depends on your background and the way you've structured your week, i.e. if you are running intense track sessions, a long tempo style session and high mileage, running long steady runs week in week out probably isn't going to be sustainable ( unless you're a very well developed athlete)


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ Sheep1978


    Pretty quiet on this thread the last while so thought I'd kick it off again if anyone else is attempting, or contemplating, a first sub 3 attempt soon.?

    Summer hols are over for me so the reality of a sub 3 attempt in DCM is kicking in. Did 3.14 in Dublin last year but joined a club after and have run below pb distances / times this year:

    Raheny 5m - 30.08
    Trim 10m - 63.53
    Bohermeen HM - 1.24.05
    Dunboyne 10k - 37.25
    Docklands 5k - 18.20
    Glendalough Marathon - 3.10.50

    Sunday gone I did the RnR half in 1.27.50 after a two week holiday with limited running and unlimited beer. anyway I think a sub 3 attempt is worth a go. Anyone disagree based on those times.? I'll race Rathoath half in 3/4 weeks and see how I fare


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,340 Mod ✭✭✭✭ TFBubendorfer


    I'd say you have a very realistic chance, assuming that you train properly


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    Sheep1978 wrote: »
    Pretty quiet on this thread the last while so thought I'd kick it off again if anyone else is attempting, or contemplating, a first sub 3 attempt soon.?

    Summer hols are over for me so the reality of a sub 3 attempt in DCM is kicking in. Did 3.14 in Dublin last year but joined a club after and have run below pb distances / times this year:

    Raheny 5m - 30.08
    Trim 10m - 63.53
    Bohermeen HM - 1.24.05
    Dunboyne 10k - 37.25
    Docklands 5k - 18.20
    Glendalough Marathon - 3.10.50

    Sunday gone I did the RnR half in 1.27.50 after a two week holiday with limited running and unlimited beer. anyway I think a sub 3 attempt is worth a go. Anyone disagree based on those times.? I'll race Rathoath half in 3/4 weeks and see how I fare

    Course you can do it. That 5m looks well out of sync with the other times. What was different?


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ Sheep1978


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Course you can do it. That 5m looks well out of sync with the other times. What was different?

    maybe just the timing - very early in the year. I don;t remember too much else except for struggling in mile 4. That being said, I think trim was only a week later


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    Sheep1978 wrote: »
    maybe just the timing - very early in the year. I don;t remember too much else except for struggling in mile 4. That being said, I think trim was only a week later

    But that’s the thing you ran it at 6:01 per mile while trim is 6:25 or so. Big difference.
    Anyhow if you can do a session of 1 mile repeats, a tempo of 6-8 miles at 6:45 and getbyour long run done then you’re more than capable in my opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭ MonkstownHoop


    Duanington wrote: »
    Great post - just to add to it


    There really isn't one right way to run your long runs as it really depends on the structure of your week.

    There people that never go below 8 min \miles for their long runs because the rest of their week dictates that but also because they have specific strengths\weaknesses to address

    There are people that will lock in and hold mid 7 minute pace for the entire run, because the rest of the week allows for it

    There are people that will run faster again because it makes sense to run steady paced long runs with the structure of their week.

    It really depends on your background and the way you've structured your week, i.e. if you are running intense track sessions, a long tempo style session and high mileage, running long steady runs week in week out probably isn't going to be sustainable ( unless you're a very well developed athlete)

    I'm following a personal plan which the aim is sub 3, haven't gone over 12.5 for a long run so far


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,061 ✭✭✭ healy1835


    I'm following a personal plan which the aim is sub 3, haven't gone over 12.5 for a long run so far

    You're running Dublin right? Any more details on the plan for us :) mileage, sessions etc.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭ MonkstownHoop


    healy1835 wrote: »
    You're running Dublin right? Any more details on the plan for us :) mileage, sessions etc.

    Over 50 atm increasing each week, most weeks have 2 sessions (tempo, intervals & hills) long run Sunday generally at around 7.15/7.20 pace with faster last 2 miles usually, all other days would be easy runs 8/10 miles, 6 days a week now but some 7 day weeks coming up


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭ Bahanaman


    Was hoping for a sub 3 but have just gone a week without running. Began a 12 week programme for Dublin two weeks ago but after the long run last Saturday the back/hip flared up! Damn and blast it anyway... Might get going again in the next few days. hopefully not too late to get back on track.


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ Sheep1978


    Anyone feel there's any point / benefit in running 400/500m reps at this stage in DCM training.? Can they still be beneficial.?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭ Singer


    Sheep1978 wrote: »
    Anyone feel there's any point / benefit in running 400/500m reps at this stage in DCM training.? Can they still be beneficial.?

    Are you following a plan that has them on it? Or just addicted to shorter reps? :)

    For what it's worth, the Hanson plan (that I'm following) has just moved over to mile reps as being the shortest until the marathon, the purpose of which is to maintain the V02max gains from the weekly shorter rep sessions while building more endurance. So following this logic, at this point you should be running no faster than 10k - 10 mile pace in sessions and be running longer reps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,885 ✭✭✭ Duanington


    Sheep1978 wrote: »
    Anyone feel there's any point / benefit in running 400/500m reps at this stage in DCM training.? Can they still be beneficial.?

    It depends on the indivudual's background in my view, lots of plans will keep 400s\500s in the plan right up until taper but then others will ditch them in favour of longer reps.

    Personally, I think think they serve a purpose, it can be hard to grind out 400s after a few weeks of heavy mileage and they really do test the resolve mentally as well as keeping turnover in reasonable shape. Not sure I'd be a fan of running them weekly from now until DCM though


  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭ Ranleth


    Doing my 1st marathon in Dublin and following this plan: https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/marathon/a760127/rws-ultimate-marathon-schedule-sub-300/

    Just wondering for anyone that's ran it before, how long is the course compared to the "official" 26.2 mile (42.2 kilometer)?
    I understand not everyone runs the same racing line but a 1% difference is a lot over that distance.

    42.20 in 2:59:59 is 04:16 average pace
    42.62 in 2:59:59 is 04:13 average pace

    I'm not targeting a 2:59:59 exactly but I'd hate to run a 4:15 average and miss out by a few seconds...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,885 ✭✭✭ Duanington


    Ranleth wrote: »
    Doing my 1st marathon in Dublin and following this plan: https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/marathon/a760127/rws-ultimate-marathon-schedule-sub-300/

    Just wondering for anyone that's ran it before, how long is the course compared to the "official" 26.2 mile (42.2 kilometer)?
    I understand not everyone runs the same racing line but a 1% difference is a lot over that distance.

    42.20 in 2:59:59 is 04:16 average pace
    42.62 in 2:59:59 is 04:13 average pace

    I'm not targeting a 2:59:59 exactly but I'd hate to run a 4:15 average and miss out by a few seconds...

    Pretty sure the racing line would be exactly 26.2 miles but then every
    one else would run over by varying degrees


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ Sheep1978


    According to Strava I've run 26.36 in both 2017 and 2018. I'm sure everyones varies


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,388 ✭✭✭ ger664


    Ranleth wrote: »
    Doing my 1st marathon in Dublin and following this plan: https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/marathon/a760127/rws-ultimate-marathon-schedule-sub-300/

    Just wondering for anyone that's ran it before, how long is the course compared to the "official" 26.2 mile (42.2 kilometer)?
    I understand not everyone runs the same racing line but a 1% difference is a lot over that distance.

    42.20 in 2:59:59 is 04:16 average pace
    42.62 in 2:59:59 is 04:13 average pace

    I'm not targeting a 2:59:59 exactly but I'd hate to run a 4:15 average and miss out by a few seconds...

    Just go with the pacers and enjoy the ride.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,112 ✭✭✭✭ 28064212


    Ranleth wrote: »
    Doing my 1st marathon in Dublin and following this plan: https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/marathon/a760127/rws-ultimate-marathon-schedule-sub-300/

    Just wondering for anyone that's ran it before, how long is the course compared to the "official" 26.2 mile (42.2 kilometer)?
    I understand not everyone runs the same racing line but a 1% difference is a lot over that distance.

    42.20 in 2:59:59 is 04:16 average pace
    42.62 in 2:59:59 is 04:13 average pace

    I'm not targeting a 2:59:59 exactly but I'd hate to run a 4:15 average and miss out by a few seconds...
    The course is measured to IAAF standards, which means:
    • The racing line must not be shorter than 42,195m
    • There is a tolerance of 0.1% (42m)
    • So the racing line will be between 42,195 and 42,237 metres long

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