Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 4

km79 · 31-07-2019 01:35PM

jr86 wrote: »

I don't think Tod means intangibles in the sense you do, like injuries and stuff

Think he's more referring to blanket statements like "Mayo will raise their game" and "there's one more kick in them" and things like that, which are based on no tangible and solid evidence, and that there has been no real tactical analysis or anything put forward to support any Mayo predictions.

And he's spot on - because any objective strategic analysis based on form would only point at one outcome

Now for what its worth, I do think this will be more of a battle than many think (and yes I'm using intangibles myself to support this!!)

But Tod's viewpoint is still spot on imo, and I'm glad we can get contrary opinions on this site, which are generally a complete no-go on the Mayo Blog. Checked on it yesterday to see some guy getting absolutely lambasted by a plethora of posters for predicting a comfortable Donegal win

That guy predicts a win for whatever team play are playing every game. Without fail.
I used to think he was just overly negative but now he just seems like a troll

flasher0030 · 31-07-2019 01:54PM

jr86 wrote: »

I don't think Tod means intangibles in the sense you do, like injuries and stuff

Think he's more referring to blanket statements like "Mayo will raise their game" and "there's one more kick in them" and things like that, which are based on no tangible and solid evidence, and that there has been no real tactical analysis or anything put forward to support any Mayo predictions.

And he's spot on - because any objective strategic analysis based on form would only point at one outcome

Now for what its worth, I do think this will be more of a battle than many think (and yes I'm using intangibles myself to support this!!)

But Tod's viewpoint is still spot on imo, and I'm glad we can get contrary opinions on this site, which are generally a complete no-go on the Mayo Blog. Checked on it yesterday to see some guy getting absolutely lambasted by a plethora of posters for predicting a comfortable Donegal win

i would 100% agree with this too. Too many key players not in the required form they need to be at this stage of Championship - Doherty, McLoughlin, Keegan. And C O'Connor and S O'Shea just coming back from injury - not up to speed. And even if Paddy Durcan and D O'Connor can play a role on Saturday, they are not match-fit enough to take on the Donegal running game. Because of these factors, there is a lack of drive that has been evident in recent games this year; From 2012 to 2017, there was the feeling that Mayo would "burst loose" and pummel a team somewhere along the line. It has the opposite feeling line now - get over the line, and struggle along.

charlie14 · 31-07-2019 02:42PM

jr86 wrote: »

And he's spot on - because any objective strategic analysis based on form would only point at one outcome

Now for what its worth, I do think this will be more of a battle than many think (and yes I'm using intangibles myself to support this!!)

But Tod's viewpoint is still spot on imo, and I'm glad we can get contrary opinions on this site, which are generally a complete no-go on the Mayo Blog. Checked on it yesterday to see some guy getting absolutely lambasted by a plethora of posters for predicting a comfortable Donegal win

The way I would look on any objective analysis is that it has to be based on both teams recent performances. The problem here is that we do not have a clue as to what the makeup of either team will be.
Any analysis of Mayo based on recent performances where they were missing players which they may now have back, or likewise on Donegal who may now be missing players they had in recent performances is on a par for me with horoscope predictions.

If I was on the Mayo blog, and I`m from Donegal, I would have be tempted to lambasted that poster as well.

charlie14 · 31-07-2019 02:54PM

flasher0030 wrote: »

i would 100% agree with this too. Too many key players not in the required form they need to be at this stage of Championship - Doherty, McLoughlin, Keegan. And C O'Connor and S O'Shea just coming back from injury - not up to speed. And even if Paddy Durcan and D O'Connor can play a role on Saturday, they are not match-fit enough to take on the Donegal running game. Because of these factors, there is a lack of drive that has been evident in recent games this year; From 2012 to 2017, there was the feeling that Mayo would "burst loose" and pummel a team somewhere along the line. It has the opposite feeling line now - get over the line, and struggle along.

Perhaps you are correct, but at least it looks as if Mayo will have these experienced influential players for Saturday. Plus players of that caliber can quickly get back into their form even with very little game time under their belts. Donegal on the other hand are facing into this game with potentially a lot of their form players missing through injury.

It looks to me as a distinct possibility that whoever wins this will struggle to get over the line, and with only a week turnaround until a semi final, not a great scenario for either.

jr86 · 31-07-2019 03:04PM

charlie14 wrote: »

It looks to me as a distinct possibility that whoever wins this will struggle to get over the line, and with only a week turnaround until a semi final, not a great scenario for either.

Yeah to be honest I think Dublin will make pretty light work of the winner

But that's for another day

jr86 · 31-07-2019 03:07PM

charlie14 wrote: »

The way I would look on any objective analysis is that it has to be based on both teams recent performances. The problem here is that we do not have a clue as to what the makeup of either team will be.
Any analysis of Mayo based on recent performances where they were missing players which they may now have back, or likewise on Donegal who may now be missing players they had in recent performances is on a par for me with horoscope predictions.

If I was on the Mayo blog, and I`m from Donegal, I would have be tempted to lambasted that poster as well.

To be honest I expect maybe Durcan and Higgins to be the only ones who didn't feature the last day to push for a start

Both are great players but aren't going to single-handedly turn Mayo into a much superior side, with all due respect.

Blackjack · 31-07-2019 04:32PM

km79 wrote: »

That guy predicts a win for whatever team play are playing every game. Without fail.
I used to think he was just overly negative but now he just seems like a troll

This is 100% accurate. Has been negative every game against all opposition for several years now. He’s a stopped clock. Eventually he’s right, but most of the time he’s wrong.

Carol25 · 31-07-2019 04:37PM

It's incredibly unfair on Donegal or Mayo that their turnaround time to face probably the Dubs is so short. As for this weekend, I thought Horan's interview after the Meath match was quite telling...nearly like we're hanging on but just about kind of stuff. It'd be great if this was all gamesmanship talk but I'm really not sure. It's not what you want to hear entering this stage of the championship. If you look at teams dominant during the last decade, few can match Mayo or Dublin. Donegal have changed manager and player personnel hugely since their 2012 win, Dublin are bringing in youth all the time with ease, this allows MD McCauley to still play a role too as there's rotations, and Kerry now are an emerging force once again with a fresh young team. Mayo have been there or thereabouts for the last decade, and it's hard to criticise players who have given so many great performances in a Mayo jersey...they may have one last push left yet. But they need youth and fresh players to help them become serious contenders once again. If Matthew Ruane and others were fully fit, it'd be a different story I think.

Gerianam · 31-07-2019 05:26PM

It is true about McBrearty. Hamstring.

charlie14 · 31-07-2019 05:51PM

jr86 wrote: »

To be honest I expect maybe Durcan and Higgins to be the only ones who didn't feature the last day to push for a start

Both are great players but aren't going to single-handedly turn Mayo into a much superior side, with all due respect.

Donegal will be missing Paddy McBrearty plus Eoghan Ban Gallagher, two big players for them and possibly up to 5 others. Durcan and Higgins may not need to turn them into a much superior side to win. Just enough to get them over the line.

NabyLadistheman · 31-07-2019 06:04PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Donegal will be missing Paddy McBrearty plus Eoghan Ban Gallagher, two big players for them and possibly up to 5 others. Durcan and Higgins may not need to turn them into a much superior side to win. Just enough to get them over the line.

So is this factual enough for those that believe Mayo don't have a chance in this match? Donegals' injuries are actually worse than Mayo's

Audioslaven · 31-07-2019 06:28PM

Suarezistheman wrote: »

So is this factual enough for those that believe Mayo don't have a chance in this match? Donegals' injuries are actually worse than Mayo's

100% they have a chance. If they play like this is their last game and go at them, then they have a real chance of winning. TBH, now is when they need to start turning it up. The players cannot look at it in any other way, otherwise we are beaten. If we can get guys back to strengthen the bench as well, it all starts looking positive, so win this game and we are back in the dog fight with the dubs. This is where we want to go and I fully believe the players will want it as well. There are negative sides to all this but what's the point of bring this up now.

I think all the injuries have weighed heavily on some players as well and in particular AOS. I really hope the two weeks have freshen up the players.

We need to put keegan/Durcan on Mchugh and if AOS can give Murphy his fill of it or maybe Keegan on him. This would be the first start to laying down the marker.

seligehgit · 31-07-2019 06:50PM

Suarezistheman wrote: »

So is this factual enough for those that believe Mayo don't have a chance in this match? Donegals' injuries are actually worse than Mayo's

Don't think anybody is dismissing our ability to win the game.It would be foolhardy in the extreme to do same given their strong track record outside of the 2018 outlier.I could be accused of ignoring the most recent evidence of a downward trajectory for an aging team but I'm not inclined to do same.

But going on all known form one would have to favour Donegal.Our form as a whole this championship has been underwhelming.The chasm in the quality of the respective teams previous quarter final stage contests in Croke Park was considerable.

That's leaving aside our dismal record in Mac Hale Park.It is a knockout championship which is a contrast to previous defeats there in the championship where we still had the back door.The toll taken by all the injuries and our inability to make our life easier by winning Connacht has ensured the team appears to be running on all but empty.

I'm really expecting a reaction from the team after a fortnight's recuperation and know the lads will die with their boots on.Not so sure if it'll be good enough though.Lest we forget this is a very good and youthful Donegal team.

My hope is that we have a repeat of the 2017 league game in Mac Hale Park.We were in big trouble at half time with Michael Murphy rampant.

Aidan O Shea came on in the second half,quelled Murphy's threat and we stayed up.

Donegal Preview.

https://themayonews.podomatic.com/enclosure/2019-07-31T07_43_30-07_00.mp3

Declan Bonner may end up togging out.:)

Good news if Diarmuid does make the 26.

BandMember · 31-07-2019 07:16PM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

Aidan O'Mahony was speaking on Off The Ball this morning. His view was that the Mayo lads will also not want to lose to a Donegal team with Rochford involved and it's just a game they can't lose. Just another way of looking at it. He thinks there's still a kick left in this Mayo team. Hopefully he's right.

Ah, I was wondering when the Kerry mafia were going to raise their heads and start going on about Mayo - make no mistake about it, this is classic Kerry!! They will be doing and saying everything they can to try and bait the Mayo team, fans and media into getting "one last big performance" out of them because it's in their interests that we win and eliminate the risk of them finishing second and therefore face Dublin in a semi final. I never believe a word out of those boys at the best of times, but there's going to be some epic horsesh*t coming out of them this week.... :pac:

Of course, what would be hilarious is that they take their eye off the ball by looking towards our game and Meath manage to just throw caution to the wind, pulling a performance out of nowhere beating them while we beat Donegal to top the group, Donegal go through in second and Kerry go out.

Now, it'll never happen, but it's nice to hope and dream....

(Well, either that or Dublin lose and Kerry end up facing them anyway)

Looptheloop30 · 31-07-2019 10:01PM

Any tickets?

https://mobile.twitter.com/MayoGAA/status/1156669104964734976

PressRun · 31-07-2019 10:21PM

Gerianam wrote: »

It is true about McBrearty. Hamstring.

I'll believe it when I see it

Bunny Colvin · 31-07-2019 11:21PM

jr86 wrote: »

I don't think Tod means intangibles in the sense you do, like injuries and stuff

Think he's more referring to blanket statements like "Mayo will raise their game" and "there's one more kick in them" and things like that, which are based on no tangible and solid evidence, and that there has been no real tactical analysis or anything put forward to support any Mayo predictions.

And he's spot on - because any objective strategic analysis based on form would only point at one outcome

Now for what its worth, I do think this will be more of a battle than many think (and yes I'm using intangibles myself to support this!!)

But Tod's viewpoint is still spot on imo, and I'm glad we can get contrary opinions on this site, which are generally a complete no-go on the Mayo Blog. Checked on it yesterday to see some guy getting absolutely lambasted by a plethora of posters for predicting a comfortable Donegal win

But we have seen this time and time again the last few year's. One of my favourite days out in recent times was beating Tyrone in that quarter final in 2016 - the day of the Leeroy Keegan masterclass. We staggered through the qualifiers that season and we were all told that Tyrone would put us to the sword. Instead, we fought and grinded out the win. Couldn't have been prouder that day.

Look, this team has aged since then and of course we don't have a full deck to choose from. We also don't look nowhere as solid at the back. But, there's player's there that you just know will stand up and will be in their element in a dogfight. Like I said before, Boyler and Andy set the standard against Meath, it's not a strech to think there will be more that will follow their lead the next day.

Simple analysis yes, but it's a home quarter final for us and we do have the quality to beat this Donegal team and I'm absouletely not ashamed to say I expect us to play the game of our season on Saturday and you know what, that might very well be enough to get the win. We'll all have the same feeling when the ball is thrown in on Saturday. When the going gets tough, I'll never write this team off. Bring it the **** on!

Barlett · 31-07-2019 11:26PM

Carol25 wrote: »

It's incredibly unfair on Donegal or Mayo that their turnaround time to face probably the Dubs is so short. As for this weekend, I thought Horan's interview after the Meath match was quite telling...nearly like we're hanging on but just about kind of stuff. It'd be great if this was all gamesmanship talk but I'm really not sure. It's not what you want to hear entering this stage of the championship. If you look at teams dominant during the last decade, few can match Mayo or Dublin. Donegal have changed manager and player personnel hugely since their 2012 win, Dublin are bringing in youth all the time with ease, this allows MD McCauley to still play a role too as there's rotations, and Kerry now are an emerging force once again with a fresh young team. Mayo have been there or thereabouts for the last decade, and it's hard to criticise players who have given so many great performances in a Mayo jersey...they may have one last push left yet. But they need youth and fresh players to help them become serious contenders once again. If Matthew Ruane and others were fully fit, it'd be a different story I think.

Agreed, they've somehow managed to make the All Ireland format worse. The competition is a shamles in terms of scheduling.

charlie14 · 01-08-2019 09:48AM

Barlett wrote: »

Agreed, they've somehow managed to make the All Ireland format worse. The competition is a shamles in terms of scheduling.

Just a suggestion, but would it not be better to simply cut out all those pointless provincial competitions like the McKenna cup, FBD league etc. and just go straight into the league ?
They do not seem to be much benefit to county teams anyway with colleges having first call on players in most cases.
Maybe just run them as U20/development squad competitions and run off the league earlier leaving more time to run off the championship.

Barlett · 01-08-2019 09:56AM

charlie14 wrote: »

Just a suggestion, but would it not be better to simply cut out all those pointless provincial competitions like the McKenna cup, FBD league etc. and just go straight into the league ?
They do not seem to be much benefit to county teams anyway with colleges having first call on players in most cases.
Maybe just run them as U20/development squad competitions and run off the league earlier leaving more time to run off the championship.

Certainly should be looked at, the current format, particularly in the way it’s scheduled with no breathing space between games will only serve to ensure there are little surprises in the way of results not only that, but it just seems crazy that the team who wins on Saturday night in Castlebar will most likely be knocked out the following Saturday , like the semi finals are the second biggest match of the year, yet they’re being played off like a first round qualifier ie let’s just get them out of the way.

km79 · 01-08-2019 10:12AM

Barlett wrote: »

Certainly should be looked at, the current format, particularly in the way it’s scheduled with no breathing space between games will only serve to ensure there are little surprises in the way of results not only that, but it just seems crazy that the team who wins on Saturday night in Castlebar will most likely be knocked out the following Saturday , like the semi finals are the second biggest match of the year, yet they’re being played off like a first round qualifier ie let’s just get them out of the way.

Couldn’t agree more
Huge build up to this game
Whomever wins will have a couple of hours to enjoy it then have to starting preparing for an ALL IRELAND SEMI FINAL the following weekend
Madness
There will be no time for a build up
The final is too early as well
No time for build up in schools etc which is part of the tradition imo and an important one
It needs to all change back

seligehgit · 01-08-2019 10:46AM

km79 wrote: »

Couldn’t agree more
Huge build up to this game
Whomever wins will have a couple of hours to enjoy it then have to starting preparing for an ALL IRELAND SEMI FINAL the following weekend
Madness
There will be no time for a build up
The final is too early as well
No time for build up in schools etc which is part of the tradition imo and an important one
It needs to all change back

Martin Breheny had an article in the Indo re the failed entities that are the quarter final group stages and the new rescheduling.

IMO they should definitely revert back to the old September finishing schedule.

Loafing Oaf · 01-08-2019 11:22AM

Detailed analysis of our goalkeeping situation here

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mayo-must-improve-kick-out-strategy-or-change-personnel-1.3973950

The guy thinks we'd be better off starting Hennelly but even if we don't

Mayo have got to start putting quality ball in front of O’Shea for him to dominate. Not hanging over him for the opposition to easily spoil. They have to take more risks in sending their short kick-outs beyond the edge of the D. Their current system says safe on the label, but it’s still leaking cheap scores and means creating their own is constantly laborious.

I'm not sure of Clarke is capable of adjusting his kickouts along these lines and even if he tried whether the outcome would be any improvement...it's an ongoing headache...

km79 · 01-08-2019 11:26AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Detailed analysis of our goalkeeping situation here

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-mayo-must-improve-kick-out-strategy-or-change-personnel-1.3973950

The guy thinks we'd be better off starting Hennelly but even if we don't

I'm not sure of Clarke is capable of adjusting his kickouts along these lines and even if he tried whether the outcome would be any improvement...it's an ongoing headache...

Our entire middle sector has been decimated since the league final to be fair which has to impact on kickouts
It’s hard for Clarke to find Diarmuid with a kickout as mentioned in article when he isn’t bloody there !!!!!!

Also
Like everything in life absence makes the hard grow fonder .
Roscommon game
The reason Robbie was dropped was cos he cost us a few scores from his KICKOUTS in a game we lost by a point
As well as missin all 3 places kicks
But that’s all forgotten now apparently

How many scores has Clarke cost us ?
How many goals has he conceded
Or more importantly how many has he stopped ......

jr86 · 01-08-2019 11:37AM

km79 wrote: »

Our entire middle sector has been decimated since the league final to be fair which has to impact on kickouts
It’s hard for Clarke to find Diarmuid with a kickout as mentioned in article when he isn’t bloody there !!!!!!

makes zero difference, his kickouts hang in the air for an eternity - it doesn't matter a jot who is under them, lofty kickouts like that will always suit the defending team coming on to them.

And its a very good point on the short kickouts - when he went short in a few games we managed to win possession, but how good is possession within 30 yards of your own goal? he has no confidence to extend the short kickouts beyond the "D" on a consistent basis and find a man each time

I don't think its in any doubt whatsoever that Clarke has serious issues with his restarts, and its been an issue for years now, but its just a case of how you weigh up the trade off, such as the importance of his ability under the high ball, shot stopping etc.

NabyLadistheman · 01-08-2019 11:41AM

km79 wrote: »

Our entire middle sector has been decimated since the league final to be fair which has to impact on kickouts
It’s hard for Clarke to find Diarmuid with a kickout as mentioned in article when he isn’t bloody there !!!!!!

Also
Like everything in life absence makes the hard grow fonder .
Roscommon game
The reason Robbie was dropped was cos he cost us a few scores from his KICKOUTS in a game we lost by a point
As well as missin all 3 places kicks
But that’s all forgotten now apparently

How many scores has Clarke cost us ?
How many goals has he conceded
Or more importantly how many has he stopped ......

At least 7 scores in Killarney and the width of the cross-bar from gifting them a goal like Hennelly did against Roscommon. At least 3 against Meath. As soon as Hennelly made that error against Roscommon everything he done previous was forgotten. His man of the match display against Dublin in the league where he made at least 6 top class saves. His performance against Kerry in the the national final where he won us the match with a save versus Clifford. I was at that game and time and again he got us way up the pitch with massive kicks, all this goes unnoticed. Both goalies are viewed in different lights. Hennelly will never shake what's happened previously. There are merits & flaws to both. Clarke is the man now let him get on with it

km79 · 01-08-2019 11:44AM

Suarezistheman wrote: »

At least 7 scores in Killarney and the width of the cross-bar from gifting them a goal like Hennelly did against Roscommon. At least 3 against Meath. As soon as Hennelly made that error against Roscommon everything he done previous was forgotten. His man of the match display against Dublin in the league where he made at least 6 top class saves. His performance against Kerry in the the national final where he won us the match with a save versus Clifford. I was at that game and time and again he got us way up the pitch with massive kicks, all this goes unnoticed. Both goalies are viewed in different lights. Hennelly will never shake what's happened previously. There are merits & flaws to both. Clarke is the man now let him get on with it

Moran decimating our kickout in Killarney when we had one fit midfielder has been the carlsyts for all of this
How did Moran fare against us in Limerick that fateful day .........
Forty possessions is the number being thrown about
He must have caught a few of our kickouts so .......
I agree
Let’s get on with it !
And let’s hope the management have actually come up with a kickout strategy !!!!!

blinding · 01-08-2019 11:46AM

km79 wrote: »

Moran decimating our kickout in Killarney when we had one fit midfielder has been the carlsyts for all of this
How did Moran fare against us in Limerick that fateful day .........
Forty possessions is the number being thrown about
He must have caught a few of our kickouts so .......
I agree
Let’s get on with it !
And let’s hope the management have actually come up with a kickout strategy !!!!!

Like Mayo players catch them .

km79 · 01-08-2019 11:56AM

blinding wrote: »

Like Mayo players catch them .

Coillte_Bhoy · 01-08-2019 12:02PM

blinding wrote: »

Like Mayo players catch them .

Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 4

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