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Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

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  • #1922
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    skipper_G wrote: »
    I agree, instead of just enjoying the moment after a great race it seems many people are intent on focusing on stuff that they don't like or something that F1 is missing. I'm not naïve enough to think that F1 is super healthy, but Mario kart track shenanigans and sprinklers and safety cars are not the answer
    i agree, and im guilty of it myself.

    srinklers are not the answer but would be entertaining

    we need all thee things to happen naturally and spontainiously


  • #1923
    muckwarrior
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭muckwarrior


    I don't see anything artificial about a driver being disadvantaged if they make a mistake. Historically if you went off track then there was a good chance your race was over. If it's feasible to f*ck up a driver's tyres if they leave the track then I'm all for that. Seems like the perfect compromise.


  • #1924
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Cars staying on the actual track is not the issue here. The suggestions here are hoping for more retirements and safety cars to make racing interesting. Nascar in other words.

    First of all, you're not taking into account a change in behaviour. If there is retirement/pit stop due to going off the track, the drivers won't go off the track! The guy on the outside will lift or the guy on the inside will leave space. They'll work it out between them, either be gentlemen or be difficult. We'll still get close driving but any risk taking really will be a risk as there will be a cost. That is exciting.

    I'm not advocating for gimmicks, just take off the stabilisers. Driving in what looks like a car park is boring and there is no penalty for going off the track due to error. They want to keep all the cars on the track for sponsors, plain and simple. Lewis is breaking all sorts of records and this is helping him along. A good driver deals with these uncertainties.

    The poster above who likes safety cars - I agree, they can spice things up on occassion. But sometimes they spoil the race, like at silverstone. So in moderation would be my view. Better to get the car out on its own steam and not upset the race with a safety car due to tractor in the gravel trap.


  • #1925
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »
    First of all, you're not taking into account a change in behaviour. If there is retirement/pit stop due to going off the track, the drivers won't go off the track! The guy on the outside will lift or the guy on the inside will leave space. They'll work it out between them, either be gentlemen or be difficult. We'll still get close driving but any risk taking really will be a risk as there will be a cost. That is exciting.
    What change of behavior, why would there be change of behavior? Majority of overtakes don't happen on the outside and there is not much risk for the car on the inside.

    You will have even more stupid 5 seconds or whatever penalties added just to make things fair when one driver shreds their tyres by no fault of their own. It encourages aggressive overtaking that ends up with other car being off the road from the inside but to make it fair they would have to punish the driver who caused the damage and you have even more faffing with silly rules. Just punish the most obvious shortcuts through the turns and let them race otherwise instead of stupid 5 second penalties. and french track is not fit for purpose.


  • #1926
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Is Max not known for agressive driving? Yet he kept it clean in Monaco while chasing Hamilton. I wonder why?


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  • #1927
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    meeeeh wrote: »
    What change of behavior, why would there be change of behavior? Majority of overtakes don't happen on the outside and there is not much risk for the car on the inside.

    You will have even more stupid 5 seconds or whatever penalties added just to make things fair when one driver shreds their tyres by no fault of their own. It encourages aggressive overtaking that ends up with other car being off the road from the inside but to make it fair they would have to punish the driver who caused the damage and you have even more faffing with silly rules. Just punish the most obvious shortcuts through the turns and let them race otherwise instead of stupid 5 second penalties. and french track is not fit for purpose.

    Of course there is a change of behaviour. Take a kid who walks on a kerb at the edge of their lawn. They will hop skip and jump. Put that kid on a kerb on the edge of the cliffs of moher. They'll take a different approach. Same with a driver who gets punished for going off the track vs one who doesn't.

    Any driver who shreds their tyres made an error. Too fast, too slow, wet patch, brake failure, took a risk they shouldn't have. Whatever.

    That agressive behaviour you are talking about - we never saw that in the past, why would we see it now.

    This is removing the need for mario kart penalties, not adding them in. They are punished by the surroundings, not a steward at a desk. The way it used to be and the most natural approach. It also avoids interference due to modern safety concerns and the need for a safety car. I agree, too many safety cars to spice things up is silly. The odd when absolutely necessary is fine and if interesting pitlane shenanigans is the side effect, then so be it.


  • #1928
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »
    This is removing the need for mario kart penalties, not adding them in. They are punished by the surroundings, not a steward at a desk. The way it used to be and the most natural approach.

    But they won't be. If someone pushes another off the track the person who was pushed off track will be punished. And then you have to punish the culprit so you have to dish out another penalty.

    You assume that the driver who ends off the track is always the driver who made a mistake which is clearly not the case.


  • #1929
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    meeeeh wrote: »
    But they won't be. If someone pushes another off the track the person who was pushed off track will be punished. And then you have to punish the culprit.

    You're completely missing the point. Let's spell it out. Max vs. LeClerc at Austria. We now have a scenario where you go off the road and tyres are ruined. Maybe there will be a renewed respect among drivers like what we saw as little as 10 years ago where space was left. In which case no penalty. Maybe there isn't. LeClerc will back off because not doing so will end his race. No penalty.


  • #1930
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »
    You're completely missing the point. Let's spell it out. Max vs. LeClerc at Austria. We now have a scenario where you go off the road and tyres are ruined. Maybe there will be a renewed respect among drivers like what we saw as little as 10 years ago where space was left. In which case no penalty. Maybe there isn't. LeClerc will back off. No penalty.
    Oh so Leclerc should just say after you sir and let Max by without fight. So that's the type of overtaking we want.


  • #1931
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Oh so Leclerc should just say after you sir and let Max by without fight. So that's the type of overtaking we want.

    He's still racing to the limit. The limit has reverted to what it once was.


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  • #1932
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    meeeeh wrote: »
    But they won't be. If someone pushes another off the track the person who was pushed off track will be punished. And then you have to punish the culprit so you have to dish out another penalty.

    You make it sound like the car doing the pushing is somehow guaranteed NOT to damage itself. Look when the Haas duo touched at Silverstone. They BOTH lost out after touching, Seb hit Max in Silverstone and Seb came off worse, Leclerc hit Hulk in Monaco and he came off worse ending his race. These "agressive"/pushy drivers you keep refering to arent suddenly going to think they are in a tank and can literally barge other competitors off track no consequence. Its not suddenly going to become bumper cars and any driver who thinks it is simply wont last long in the sport.


  • #1933
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »
    He's still racing to the limit. The limit has reverted to what it once was.

    You mean the overtaking between Senna and Prost? Schumacher type chops would be great if the tyres were shredded when cars went of the road.


  • #1934
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Oh so Leclerc should just say after you sir and let Max by without fight. So that's the type of overtaking we want.

    He doesn't back off and let him through. When they reach the exit of the corner and they are side by side one person has to lift or leclerc is toast. It's chicken. It's a different game of strategy. At that stage leclerc should back off or else he's over the line. We should also remember that leclerc left the door open for max on entry. He should have taken a tighter line to avoid that. So there are defences. It is a different fight, a more exciting one as they don't race off the track and there is a real sense of danger.


  • #1935
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    If there was a wall/kerb/paint at that turn Max wouldn't have dove in for fear of ending both their races......he knows Leclerc will be reluctant go out out there so does he want to force a race ending collision?

    Again why didnt Max just dive in against Hamilton and push him into the wall at Monaco if its so easy?


  • #1936
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    pjohnson wrote: »
    If there was a wall/kerb/paint at that turn Max wouldn't have dove in for fear of ending both their races......he knows Leclerc will be reluctant go out out there so does he want to force a race ending collision?

    Again why didnt Max just dive in against Hamilton and push him into the wall at Monaco if its so easy?
    Wall it's a lot more risky because there is no room for both. If you want higher kerbs or walls fine but don't start with some Nascar bs of different tarmac to make things more exciting.

    Anyway drivers would be stupid not do Schumacher type chops or more than one change of direction if they had good distance from third. Once the person behind is punished with destroyed tyres some silly 5 seconds penalty won't make much difference.


  • #1937
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    pjohnson wrote: »
    If there was a wall/kerb/paint at that turn Max wouldn't have dove in for fear of ending both their races......he knows Leclerc will be reluctant go out out there so does he want to force a race ending collision?

    Never thought of that. LeClerc would do everything to stay on the track. Max would know this and leave the space. It would have been 50/50 out of the corner and who knows who would have come out on top. We would have gotten a few more overtaking chances to keep us entertained IMO.


  • #1938
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Wall it's a lot more risky because there is no room for both. If you want higher kerbs or walls fine but don't start with some Nascar bs of different tarmac to make things more exciting.

    Anyway drivers would be stupid not do Schumacher type chops or more than one change of direction if they had good distance from third. Once the person behind is punished with destroyed tyres some silly 5 seconds penalty won't make much difference.

    This doesn't make any sense!

    The tarmac is not a gimmick to make it more exciting, it is to bring it back to what it always was. Grass. Gravel was an option for a while but is not considered safe anymore. Tarmac is safest. Unfortunately, tarmac gives a lifeline that spoils the racing sometimes. We need to remove this gimmick by emulating grass in a way that retains the safety features of tarmac.


  • #1939
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    And create another gimmick. I'm not going to continue this because we are going in circles. It's not gonna happen anyway.


  • #1940
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »
    Never thought of that. LeClerc would do everything to stay on the track. Max would know this and leave the space. It would have been 50/50 out of the corner and who knows who would have come out on top. We would have gotten a few more overtaking chances to keep us entertained IMO.

    Exactly. Thats why Meehs attempted point make shag all sense to me. Why would Charles just give up and let Max take the position. He isn't just going to surrender he'd fight the corner if he knew there was consequences for going wide and using common sense Max would also know this as that is what he would do in Leclercs shoes.

    Leclerc went wide because he knew he could. Max went for it because he knew Leclerc would have to go wide or cause a crash and since no driver wants to crash Leclerc would yield. THAT's why Max didn't just try to force the overtake against Hamilton at Monaco despite having the better car during the race. He knew Lewis wasnt just gunna politely let him past and if Max forced the issue recklessly they could both end up in the walls due to Hamilton not just giving up the position. Meeehs idea relies on drivers thinking its bumper cars and suddenly abandoning all common sense.


  • #1941
    TCP/IP
    Subscribers Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭TCP/IP


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yddI6pwd5yA


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  • #1942
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    Is there any reason why the Hungaroring is such a staple of the F1 calendar? It was always the boring race (at least in the pre-DRS era). When races like Hockenheim are (most likely) being dropped it seems strange to me.


  • #1943
    flazio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,669 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Historically, it was the first race to be held inside the Iron Curtain.

    This too shall pass.



  • #1944
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,095 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Silverstone tickets go on presale today. No sign of a discount though. Bit disappointed with that. They must be very confident of selling out. I suppose while Lewis is winning they'll have no problem selling tickets.


  • #1945
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,095 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/42919/hamilton-won-t-allow-netflix-to-show-him-at-german-gp/

    This is the start of it. Hamilton doesn't want to be shown at Germany because he was ill. He only wants to be seen in full PR mode. He's barely a real person in front of the camera. Might be a sound lad off camera but we'll never know because he's so careful to only show the PR character who happens to be a twat


  • #1946
    billybonkers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭billybonkers


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/42919/hamilton-won-t-allow-netflix-to-show-him-at-german-gp/

    This is the start of it. Hamilton doesn't want to be shown at Germany because he was ill. He only wants to be seen in full PR mode. He's barely a real person in front of the camera. Might be a sound lad off camera but we'll never know because he's so careful to only show the PR character who happens to be a twat

    The start of what?


  • #1947
    Inviere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,043 ✭✭✭Inviere


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    This is the start of it. Hamilton doesn't want to be shown at Germany because he was ill. He only wants to be seen in full PR mode. He's barely a real person in front of the camera. Might be a sound lad off camera but we'll never know because he's so careful to only show the PR character who happens to be a twat

    Who gives a fook though? Here's what he said:
    "I won’t be in the Netflix show much, because I was sick the whole time," he said. "I won’t allow them to release that."

    Who cares? The only people making an issue out of it, as usual, are the people who claim to not like the guy. The bs just never ends...

    Retro Computers/Consoles Repair/Restoration List



  • #1948
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,095 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Inviere wrote: »



    Who cares? The only people making an issue out of it, as usual, are the people who claim to not like the guy. The bs just never ends...

    Anyone who cares about the Netflix show, probably cares. The whole charm.of the show wasn't just showing people at their best. It was little gems like gunter steiner on the phone to gene haas after they'd ballsed up both pitstops in Australia. That's wasn't a flattering event to have immortalised but it probably won them more admiration than anything else they have done.

    The point of the show isn't just to show everyone at their PR best. The point is to get past the PR and show something much more Interesting. Hamilton vetoing anything except his PR front is exactly the kind of thing that would turn it into a boring PR release.


  • #1949
    billybonkers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭billybonkers


    Inviere wrote: »
    Who gives a fook though? Here's what he said:



    Who cares? The only people making an issue out of it, as usual, are the people who claim to not like the guy. The bs just never ends...

    They only had interview snippets with the drivers last year and then whipped it all together to suit the narrative for the episodes they released along with footage from FOM and their own B roll stuff.

    I am sure they will have some comments from Ham/Bot in Germany. Maybe enough to fill an episode about their 125 year celebration and how it all went to s**t.

    It will be a good episode anyway do the the drama of the race regardless...


  • #1950
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,160 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Silverstone tickets go on presale today. No sign of a discount though. Bit disappointed with that. They must be very confident of selling out. I suppose while Lewis is winning they'll have no problem selling tickets.

    Maybe you need to show a blue passport to unlock the discount.


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  • #1951
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,095 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    billybonkers wrote: »
    The start of what?

    Ah. Mercedes and Ferrari didn't take part in the Netflix show "Drive to Survive". The reason is because they prefer to control their own PR. That meant the rest of the teams took part and didn't have control over the show. It created a good show which was interesting to non F1 fans.I had people in work who mentioned it to me as something they came across on Netflix and wanted to know more about F1. Christian horner wanted to retake some scenes because he was too candid, but Netflix told him "no". More interesting content was the result.

    The show was such a success that Ferrari and Mercedes have agreed to take part and the fear is that they will exercise control over the show in exchange for taking part. This article is a demonstration that Lewis expects to have control over the image of him the show portrays.

    That turns it from an interesting show which shown more than the usual PR pieces you see on Sky sports F1 or the team's websites.


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