Random Fitness Questions

Alf Veedersane · 06-07-2019 10:44am

silverharp wrote: »

i have a reasonable idea on the difference between an isolation/compound/freemoving etc. i was looking at it in terms of where the resistance/tension is applied in the ROM as in a barbell or dumbbell where the max tension generally is at the lower part and the least at the highest. Im guessing its the same. i saw a video that that pointed out to keep 90 degree angles (at the low point) so that was the bit i was missing.
just adding them into the mix, i felt it more in the upper back so was obviously hitting something more than normal

Different machines that are ostensibly the same but have slightly different mechanics.

I definitely feel a T-bar row more in my mid-upper back than seated rows for example

silverharp · 06-07-2019 11:04am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Different machines that are ostensibly the same but have slightly different mechanics.

I definitely feel a T-bar row more in my mid-upper back than seated rows for example

it might have been the T-bar what done it , it was my first time using it

vargoo · 10-07-2019 3:54pm

Where the best place to buy a green blend? Organic not from china..or as little as possible from china.

(Containing wheatgrass, barleygrass, spirulina, chlorella etc more the better of equal quantities)

Very expensive everywhere....

Transform · 10-07-2019 5:37pm

vargoo wrote: »

https://medicastemcells.com/non-surgical-regenerative-prp-stem-cell-therapy-for-knee-pain/

Anyone know anything about that place^ in Dublin doing a type of stem cell therapy for knee injurys? Can't be pure hokum I suppose as it's based on a trial from Trinity - https://www.tcd.ie/medicine/orthopaedics/cartilage/

Pity trials take so long.

This looks the biz - https://www.cartiheal.com/ - currently going through trials aswell but promising.

mostly a waste of money unless its embryonic stem cells not adult stem cells

Person i work with went to Panama december 2018 and got it done on his mum due to severe arthritis issues (she was pre-surgery for joint fusions) and its helped loads - very very expensive

Transform · 10-07-2019 5:38pm

vargoo wrote: »

Where the best place to buy a green blend? Organic not from china..or as little as possible from china.

(Containing wheatgrass, barleygrass, spirulina, chlorella etc more the better of equal quantities)

Very expensive everywhere....

iherb

vargoo · 10-07-2019 6:14pm

Transform wrote: »

mostly a waste of money unless its embryonic stem cells not adult stem cells

Person i work with went to Panama december 2018 and got it done on his mum due to severe arthritis issues (she was pre-surgery for joint fusions) and its helped loads - very very expensive

Why is that not allowed elsewhere or banned?

el Fenomeno · 10-07-2019 10:49pm

Transform wrote: »

Person i work with went to Panama december 2018 and got it done on his mum due to severe arthritis issues (she was pre-surgery for joint fusions) and its helped loads - very very expensive

How expensive are we talking?

Edit: looked into it myself actually, looks like that place in Panama uses umbilical chord stem cells. Procedure is circa 23k and travel/lodging brings it up closer to 30k. Yikes.

Mellor · 10-07-2019 10:52pm

That link above appears to be PRP and not stem cells. The fact it's not clear in either case doesn't encourage me to go there.

vargoo · 11-07-2019 9:27am

Mellor wrote: »

That link above appears to be PRP and not stem cells. The fact it's not clear in either case doesn't encourage me to go there.

???

My link?

You just had to scroll down,
https://medicastemcells.com/stromal-vascular-fraction-therapy/

This - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4178263/#B44 is good summary.

Positive - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27565858

Theirs one study in there that used embryonic cells the started in 2013, suppose to be 2 years, I cant find results of that..this one https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130124163246.htm

Transform · 11-07-2019 9:59am

vargoo wrote: »

Why is that not allowed elsewhere or banned?

ethical reasons - youre taking stem cells from fetal tissue

Transform · 11-07-2019 10:00am

el Fenomeno wrote: »

How expensive are we talking?

Edit: looked into it myself actually, looks like that place in Panama uses umbilical chord stem cells. Procedure is circa 23k and travel/lodging brings it up closer to 30k. Yikes.

pricing seems similar to what my client paid yes

Transform · 11-07-2019 10:04am

Mellor wrote: »

That link above appears to be PRP and not stem cells. The fact it's not clear in either case doesn't encourage me to go there.

Ive yet to work with a single person thats gotten PRP and its made ANY difference at all - most people i work with major joint issues have major mobility problems they just kicked down the road so long that it becomes unrecoverable.

vargoo · 11-07-2019 10:10am

Transform wrote: »

Ive yet to work with a single person thats gotten PRP and its made ANY difference at all - most people i work with major joint issues have major mobility problems they just kicked down the road so long that it becomes unrecoverable.

Do you know anyone that tried adult stems?

€3000, not cheap. And by the looks of it more than 1 treatment needed.

Transform · 11-07-2019 10:06pm

vargoo wrote: »

Do you know anyone that tried adult stems?

€3000, not cheap. And by the looks of it more than 1 treatment needed.

not yet no but going to guess its going to give same outcome as PRP

vargoo · 11-07-2019 10:31pm

Transform wrote: »

not yet no but going to guess its going to give same outcome as PRP

Ah, I dunno, I'll link it again, definitely promising, but not there yet.

Transform · 12-07-2019 10:17pm

vargoo wrote: »

Ah, I dunno, I'll link it again, definitely promising, but not there yet.

Honestly don’t think it will get there unless it’s fetal stem cells

vargoo · 12-07-2019 10:46pm

Transform wrote: »

Honestly don’t think it will get there unless it’s fetal stem cells

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/knee-cartilage-repair_b_876946?guccounter=1

Just looking at knees, look at those studies, you never hear that they actually heal themselves...why? Shocked me.

Any surgical procedure puts one out of action for minimum 6 months and fast track to guaranteed osteoarthritis..why has their never been a some kind of protocol developed to self heal?

Like fix whatever cause the issue/assuming not trauma/strap it up/specific exercises/ massive weight loss/diet/ etc Im spit balling /and wait?

Mellor · 13-07-2019 4:21am

vargoo wrote: »

???

My link?

You just had to scroll down,
https://medicastemcells.com/stromal-vascular-fraction-therapy/[/com]

Yes your link. The above not the same link, but you know that.
Referring to PRP as a Medica Stem Cell therapy is disingenuous imo. I understand that that is the company name, but others might not be aware.

Alf Veedersane · 13-07-2019 7:58am

vargoo wrote: »

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/knee-cartilage-repair_b_876946?guccounter=1

Just looking at knees, look at those studies, you never hear that they actually heal themselves...why? Shocked me.

Any surgical procedure puts one out of action for minimum 6 months and fast track to guaranteed osteoarthritis..why has their never been a some kind of protocol developed to self heal?

Like fix whatever cause the issue/assuming not trauma/strap it up/specific exercises/ massive weight loss/diet/ etc Im spit balling /and wait?

Plenty of cartilage injuries are treated without surgery though. Very much depends on the damage

Brian? · 13-07-2019 8:08am

vargoo wrote: »

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/knee-cartilage-repair_b_876946?guccounter=1

Just looking at knees, look at those studies, you never hear that they actually heal themselves...why? Shocked me.

Any surgical procedure puts one out of action for minimum 6 months and fast track to guaranteed osteoarthritis..why has their never been a some kind of protocol developed to self heal?

Like fix whatever cause the issue/assuming not trauma/strap it up/specific exercises/ massive weight loss/diet/ etc Im spit balling /and wait?

The first option is always to see if it'll self heal. But mostly it won't. I've spent 6 months doing rehab only to end up in surgery and have to do it all again.

vargoo · 13-07-2019 10:35am

Brian? wrote: »

The first option is always to see if it'll self heal. But mostly it won't. I've spent 6 months doing rehab only to end up in surgery and have to do it all again.

What exactly was rehab?

Were you weight bearing?

Brian? · 13-07-2019 12:54pm

vargoo wrote: »

What exactly was rehab?

Were you weight bearing?

Strength and mobility work. I was.

vargoo · 13-07-2019 2:53pm

Brian? wrote: »

Strength and mobility work. I was.

Not right though is it?

Treat the muscles after.

Im trying to decide whether to try crutches for 6 months... supplements/zero resistance exercises, fasting, compression, etc.... easier to do during winter.

Then MRI again....

Probably crazy but surgery is worse...

Brian? · 13-07-2019 3:51pm

vargoo wrote: »

Not right though is it?

Treat the muscles after.

Im trying to decide whether to try crutches for 6 months... supplements/zero resistance exercises, fasting, compression, etc.... easier to do during winter.

Then MRI again....

Probably crazy but surgery is worse...

I don’t understand. I tried to rehab but the damage didn’t heal and I was still in pain. So I ended up having surgery. What wasn’t right? I was back on my feet the day after surgery. Back running within 4 weeks. Full mobility returned within 8 weeks.

Sounds like you should take whatever medical advice you were given.

vargoo · 13-07-2019 4:28pm

Brian? wrote: »

I don’t understand. I tried to rehab but the damage didn’t heal and I was still in pain. So I ended up having surgery. What wasn’t right? I was back on my feet the day after surgery. Back running within 4 weeks. Full mobility returned within 8 weeks.

Sounds like you should take whatever medical advice you were given.

What did you have done? Cleanout/debridement?
Is running again....you are just guaranteeing a knee replacement down the road? No?
Whats prognosis?

Brian? · 13-07-2019 4:47pm

vargoo wrote: »

What did you have done? Cleanout/debridement?
Is running again....you are just guaranteeing a knee replacement down the road? No?
Whats prognosis?

Lateral release and clean out some damaged cartilage.

No, running again isn’t guaranteeing a knee replacement. I don’t really run anymore though. My prognosis is great. Is in good shape.

What have you been reading that you’re so scared of the surgery. Keyhole knee surgery is a simple operation. The rehab afterwards needs to be done right though.

Transform · 13-07-2019 7:27pm

Brian? wrote: »

Lateral release and clean out some damaged cartilage.

No, running again isn’t guaranteeing a knee replacement. I don’t really run anymore though. My prognosis is great. Is in good shape.

What have you been reading that you’re so scared of the surgery. Keyhole knee surgery is a simple operation. The rehab afterwards needs to be done right though.

agreed - simple key hole is generally fine but the rehab after is essential

15-07-2019 7:49pm

Importance of cardio if end goal is being stronger and probably kickboxing / bouldering?

Have little interest in cardio. Only reason I'd do it was before a big trek in the future.

At the moment, I'm happy enough in the gym doing a four-day routine. Is cardio something I should be doing anyway? I do 10 mins on the bike or rowing machine for the sake of getting my heart rate up but it's so boring.

Ush1 · 16-07-2019 9:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

Importance of cardio if end goal is being stronger and probably kickboxing / bouldering?

Have little interest in cardio. Only reason I'd do it was before a big trek in the future.

At the moment, I'm happy enough in the gym doing a four-day routine. Is cardio something I should be doing anyway? I do 10 mins on the bike or rowing machine for the sake of getting my heart rate up but it's so boring.

It's of course hugely important but type of cardio is important.

For kickboxing I personally think you can't beat rounds of bag work(apart from actual sparring). Shadow boxing, skipping, running etc... all are good also.

Transform · 16-07-2019 11:34am

Deleted User wrote: »

Importance of cardio if end goal is being stronger and probably kickboxing / bouldering?

Have little interest in cardio. Only reason I'd do it was before a big trek in the future.

At the moment, I'm happy enough in the gym doing a four-day routine. Is cardio something I should be doing anyway? I do 10 mins on the bike or rowing machine for the sake of getting my heart rate up but it's so boring.

you wont think it was boring 20yrs from now, cardio is important,

read this please - https://www.8weeksout.com/2016/11/01/why-conditioning-may-save-your-life/

Id add poor mobility is a major risk factor also

Transform · 16-07-2019 11:36am

Ush1 wrote: »

It's of course hugely important but type of cardio is important.

For kickboxing I personally think you can't beat rounds of bag work(apart from actual sparring). Shadow boxing, skipping, running etc... all are good also.

most people cant do sustained steady state cardio and control their heart rate, and aerobic base must be built before anerobic work is performed regularly - the work you describe is typically seen as higher intensity or anerobic work

Ush1 · 16-07-2019 12:54pm

Transform wrote: »

most people cant do sustained steady state cardio and control their heart rate, and aerobic base must be built before anerobic work is performed regularly - the work you describe is typically seen as higher intensity or anerobic work

I've never heard skipping or running(unless it's sprinting) described as anaerobic? Bag work can be anaerobic but can easily be aerobic also, totally depends on what you are doing. If you are focused on footwork and output, I would consider that aerobic conditioning.

16-07-2019 2:17pm

https://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/MobileSearchRouter?srch=SILICONE+OIL&action=search&storeId=11101&catalogId=15551&langId=-1&mode=search

https://www.woodies.ie/holts-silicone-spray-1115342?utm_source=google_shoppinggclid=EAIaIQobChMIiajHse254wIVAbDtCh2OVwddEAQYAiABEgIECPD_BwE

Can I use any of these for my thread mill it’s starting to stick on me I read online any lube will do as long as it’s 100%

Thank you

Transform · 16-07-2019 10:30pm

Ush1 wrote: »

I've never heard skipping or running(unless it's sprinting) described as anaerobic? Bag work can be anaerobic but can easily be aerobic also, totally depends on what you are doing. If you are focused on footwork and output, I would consider that aerobic conditioning.

depends on level of conditioning

Aerobic doesnt scream out at me when you type - "For kickboxing I personally think you can't beat rounds of bag work(apart from actual sparring)" - most people will translate that to higher intensity work, correct me if im wrong

Mellor · 17-07-2019 8:18am

Hi

Transform wrote: »

Aerobic doesnt scream out at me when you type - "For kickboxing I personally think you can't beat rounds of bag work(apart from actual sparring)" - most people will translate that to higher intensity work, correct me if im wrong

Bag work would be typically anaerobic. The point of the bag and heavier gloves is that you just more power and energy. Most people let loose on a bag would typically head off at a tempo they can hold for 2-3 mins. Not 20-40mins steady.

Shadow boxing on the other hand is more aerobic. Intensity and tempo is little and not fatiguing at all. Should be able to hold that for a long time. Although the purpose is typically technical rather than cardio.

Skipping can be any intensity. But depends on ability and the tempo you find comfortable.

Ush1 · 17-07-2019 8:21am

Transform wrote: »

depends on level of conditioning

Aerobic doesnt scream out at me when you type - "For kickboxing I personally think you can't beat rounds of bag work(apart from actual sparring)" - most people will translate that to higher intensity work, correct me if im wrong

I agree but aerobic and anaerobic aside, any boxing or kickboxing coach will likely tell you the same things to improve conditioning. Doing the sport itself is best, but those other things will help also.

Mr. CooL ICE · 17-07-2019 9:20am

Strength athletes (especially powerlifters) often viewed cardio as being a gainz destroyer and avoid any form of cardio outright, and it's a trap I fell into myself. Trends come and go, but current cardio trend for strength athletes is simply walking. 30-60 minutes a day at an average pace is light on the joints and just aerobic enough to help aid conditioning.

Anecdotally, I can vouch for trying to get out walking as complementing strength work. It might seem boring at first, but stick on some headphones while listening to a podcast every day has made lifting easier. And I do it at a different time of day to gym work. No more being out of breath after warmup sets @ <50%.

If 10 mins on a bike/rowing machine bores you, just find something similar that you think you will enjoy. Getting fresh air while doing so is a bonus.

Alf Veedersane · 17-07-2019 9:42am

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Strength athletes (especially powerlifters) often viewed cardio as being a gainz destroyer and avoid any form of cardio outright, and it's a trap I fell into myself. Trends come and go, but current cardio trend for strength athletes is simply walking. 30-60 minutes a day at an average pace is light on the joints and just aerobic enough to help aid conditioning.

Anecdotally, I can vouch for trying to get out walking as complementing strength work. It might seem boring at first, but stick on some headphones while listening to a podcast every day has made lifting easier. And I do it at a different time of day to gym work. No more being out of breath after warmup sets @ <50%.

If 10 mins on a bike/rowing machine bores you, just find something similar that you think you will enjoy. Getting fresh air while doing so is a bonus.

Greg Nuckols had a couple of articles on how cardio won't kill your gainz (if done properly) and how it would be of benefit to not avoid it.

Cardio Isn’t Going to Kill Your Gains

Avoiding Cardio Could Be Holding You Back

Brian? · 17-07-2019 10:30am

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Strength athletes (especially powerlifters) often viewed cardio as being a gainz destroyer and avoid any form of cardio outright, and it's a trap I fell into myself. Trends come and go, but current cardio trend for strength athletes is simply walking. 30-60 minutes a day at an average pace is light on the joints and just aerobic enough to help aid conditioning.

Anecdotally, I can vouch for trying to get out walking as complementing strength work. It might seem boring at first, but stick on some headphones while listening to a podcast every day has made lifting easier. And I do it at a different time of day to gym work. No more being out of breath after warmup sets @ <50%.

If 10 mins on a bike/rowing machine bores you, just find something similar that you think you will enjoy. Getting fresh air while doing so is a bonus.

I find cycling to work to be the ultimate low intensity cardio. No poxy traffic or buses. I arrive at work fresh as a daisy.

A couple of days a week I even do max effort intervals on the way home for the craic.

17-07-2019 11:41am

I always figure it's generally important to be cardio fit though i wouldn't be able to say why

Being able to run away from the runny kind of zombies i guess

Transform · 17-07-2019 2:37pm

Mellor wrote: »

Hi

Bag work would be typically anaerobic. The point of the bag and heavier gloves is that you just more power and energy. Most people let loose on a bag would typically head off at a tempo they can hold for 2-3 mins. Not 20-40mins steady.

Shadow boxing on the other hand is more aerobic. Intensity and tempo is little and not fatiguing at all. Should be able to hold that for a long time. Although the purpose is typically technical rather than cardio.

Skipping can be any intensity. But depends on ability and the tempo you find comfortable.

clears that up

17-07-2019 2:52pm

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Strength athletes (especially powerlifters) often viewed cardio as being a gainz destroyer and avoid any form of cardio outright, and it's a trap I fell into myself. Trends come and go, but current cardio trend for strength athletes is simply walking. 30-60 minutes a day at an average pace is light on the joints and just aerobic enough to help aid conditioning.

Anecdotally, I can vouch for trying to get out walking as complementing strength work. It might seem boring at first, but stick on some headphones while listening to a podcast every day has made lifting easier. And I do it at a different time of day to gym work. No more being out of breath after warmup sets @ <50%.

If 10 mins on a bike/rowing machine bores you, just find something similar that you think you will enjoy. Getting fresh air while doing so is a bonus.

Nice one. I often do 10,000 steps a day and lots of stairs as a teacher.

Transform · 17-07-2019 2:54pm

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Strength athletes (especially powerlifters) often viewed cardio as being a gainz destroyer and avoid any form of cardio outright, and it's a trap I fell into myself. Trends come and go, but current cardio trend for strength athletes is simply walking. 30-60 minutes a day at an average pace is light on the joints and just aerobic enough to help aid conditioning.

Anecdotally, I can vouch for trying to get out walking as complementing strength work. It might seem boring at first, but stick on some headphones while listening to a podcast every day has made lifting easier. And I do it at a different time of day to gym work. No more being out of breath after warmup sets @ <50%.

If 10 mins on a bike/rowing machine bores you, just find something similar that you think you will enjoy. Getting fresh air while doing so is a bonus.

Exactly right

Most people spend their days trying to cure their lack of consistency with intensity

colm_c · 19-07-2019 11:41am

On training days, I usually try eat more calories to maintain and increase muscle mass.

I train 4 days per week, early in the morning before breakfast.

I'm not struggling for energy when training.

Should I change to eating more the day before training? And less the day before a rest day? Or does it make any difference at all?

ancapailldorcha · 19-07-2019 11:44am

Just two quick questions. I've just started going to the gym near my house here. I got a programme from one of the staff here which I've been doing for about 3 weeks now. It's mainly focused on my arms and shoulders. I'm getting a tad bored of it and was thinking of changing my routine. Are there any particularly good sites for this?

Also, everyone at this place seems to shower while wearing shorts. From my own limited experience, I always thought men at gyms would shower naked. Not a problem now but come winter, I might need to shower there because of the weather.

Alf Veedersane · 19-07-2019 2:53pm

colm_c wrote: »

On training days, I usually try eat more calories to maintain and increase muscle mass.

I train 4 days per week, early in the morning before breakfast.

I'm not struggling for energy when training.

Should I change to eating more the day before training? And less the day before a rest day? Or does it make any difference at all?

Keep doing what you're doing. You've said there's no reason to change it.

Alf Veedersane · 19-07-2019 2:56pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Just two quick questions. I've just started going to the gym near my house here. I got a programme from one of the staff here which I've been doing for about 3 weeks now. It's mainly focused on my arms and shoulders. I'm getting a tad bored of it and was thinking of changing my routine. Are there any particularly good sites for this?

Also, everyone at this place seems to shower while wearing shorts. From my own limited experience, I always thought men at gyms would shower naked. Not a problem now but come winter, I might need to shower there because of the weather.

What sort of time do you have to train, ie per session and how many times a week?

I would think it odd that guys shower in their shorts. It's a bit mental.

ancapailldorcha · 19-07-2019 2:58pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

What sort of time do you have to train, ie per session and how many times a week?

At the minute, about an 45-60 minutes 3 times a week (Monday, Wednesday & Friday). I go before breakfast as the place would probably be swamped in the evenings.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I would think it odd that guys shower in their shorts. It's a bit mental.

I only was in there twice. Don't want a reputation for looking at the lads while they shower!

Brian? · 19-07-2019 7:20pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Just two quick questions. I've just started going to the gym near my house here. I got a programme from one of the staff here which I've been doing for about 3 weeks now. It's mainly focused on my arms and shoulders. I'm getting a tad bored of it and was thinking of changing my routine. Are there any particularly good sites for this?

Also, everyone at this place seems to shower while wearing shorts. From my own limited experience, I always thought men at gyms would shower naked. Not a problem now but come winter, I might need to shower there because of the weather.

People showering in shorts is definitely weird.

There are many decent programs for a beginner that target the whole body. How often can you train? Is there someone at the gym who can teach you to squat and deadlift? How is your hip and shoulder mobility and do you have any pre existing injuries to take into account?

ancapailldorcha · 19-07-2019 9:39pm

Brian? wrote: »

People showering in shorts is definitely weird.

I thought so. Don't know how common it is. I wouldn't want a reputation as the lad who watches men shower.

Brian? wrote: »

There are many decent programs for a beginner that target the whole body. How often can you train? Is there someone at the gym who can teach you to squat and deadlift? How is your hip and shoulder mobility and do you have any pre existing injuries to take into account?

Thanks!

I've no injuries, thankfully.

There is indeed plenty of info. The gym employee I spoke to said to be very careful about getting info online but there seem to be close to no staff which seems to be a regular occurrence here in London. I did do a session with a PT years ago so I know a bit about form (not throwing weights, lining up my arm so my wrists aren't taking the strain, that sort of thing).

I think my shoulder mobility is ok. My left side seems less flexible than my right. Never looked at my hip mobility before.

I've been going thrice a week for the past few weeks before work. I can usually do around 45-60 minutes. I don't know if that's enough. I've never done serious squats and I see deadlifts as a shortcut to serious back issues. I think I'd prefer the machines for legwork though I do know they are inefficient.

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