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Unfurnished

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13

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    #62
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    skallywag wrote: »
    Perhaps not so much for recruiting graduates or younger workers, but it is certainly an issue when recruiting for someone with a vast amount of experience under their belt.

    In such cases it can be quite common to offer an attractive relocation package where the company will cover the cost of moving/shipping a substantial amount of furniture, which a potential employee can often have if they have been working on mainland Europe where the norm tends to be rent unfurnished. It can often be the case that someone has accumulated quite a lot of valuable items by then, and finding somewhere suitable to live can often be the deciding factor on where the person ultimately decides to relocate to.

    These would be the higher end rentals? So more likely to source unfurnished?


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    #63
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭skallywag


    Graces7 wrote: »
    These would be the higher end rentals? So more likely to source unfurnished?

    True, I guess that such senior people are going to have higher end salaries in general. I have still heard quite a few stories in recent times from ex colleagues etc. that not being able to find a suitable unfurnished option has put them off returning home and they have opted to either stay put or move elsewhere instead.


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    #64
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    skallywag wrote: »
    Perhaps not so much for recruiting graduates or younger workers, but it is certainly an issue when recruiting for someone with a vast amount of experience under their belt.

    In such cases it can be quite common to offer an attractive relocation package where the company will cover the cost of moving/shipping a substantial amount of furniture, which a potential employee can often have if they have been working on mainland Europe where the norm tends to be rent unfurnished. It can often be the case that someone has accumulated quite a lot of valuable items by then, and finding somewhere suitable to live can often be the deciding factor on where the person ultimately decides to relocate to.

    I would say this is more of an exception than the norm. I have dealt with two types of tenants like this where the company outsourced finding the property. Both were in 40/50s and they didn’t bring all their furniture with them.


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    skallywag wrote: »
    Perhaps not so much for recruiting graduates or younger workers, but it is certainly an issue when recruiting for someone with a vast amount of experience under their belt.

    In such cases it can be quite common to offer an attractive relocation package where the company will cover the cost of moving/shipping a substantial amount of furniture, which a potential employee can often have if they have been working on mainland Europe where the norm tends to be rent unfurnished. It can often be the case that someone has accumulated quite a lot of valuable items by then, and finding somewhere suitable to live can often be the deciding factor on where the person ultimately decides to relocate to.

    This sounds like a tiny proportion if the market also, how many people move around when they are far into their career? Very few I’d imagine, people buy houses and settle down in an area and very very few want to be uprooting and moving around when they progress in their career.

    I suppose the exception is an Irish family moving home from abroad for good but most of these cases would be buying be buying rather than renting as they would plan to settle in Ireland for good.


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    #66
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭skallywag


    Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »
    This sounds like a tiny proportion if the market also, how many people move around when they are far into their career?

    Many people relocate when they are ca 20 years into their career.

    If you take the rental market as a whole, yes, it will be a small proportion. Whereas if you consider those in this category it most certainly is a real problem at the moment in recruiting foreign and expat experienced talent into Ireland, particularly Dublin. I am not just surmising here by the way, I have it first hand from some former colleagues who did not chose to relocate to Dublin because of this, and also from HR people in Dublin trying to hire senior roles.


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    #67
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »
    This sounds like a tiny proportion if the market also, how many people move around when they are far into their career? Very few I’d imagine, people buy houses and settle down in an area and very very few want to be uprooting and moving around when they progress in their career.

    I suppose the exception is an Irish family moving home from abroad for good but most of these cases would be buying be buying rather than renting as they would plan to settle in Ireland for good.

    Very few in the rental market you'd be involved with or the areas you rent in. Most high end rentals for very wealthy professional families would be unfurnished. If the CEO of Sony needs to move to Ireland for three years he/she will rent a high end unfurnished property close to private schools and excellent amenities with good access to a city.


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Very few in the rental market you'd be involved with or the areas you rent in. Most high end rentals for very wealthy professional families would be unfurnished. If the CEO of Sony needs to move to Ireland for three years he/she will rent a high end unfurnished property close to private schools and excellent amenities with good access to a city.

    I would very much doubt someone moving here for three years would have any interest in renting unfurnished. They would most likely be given a very high end property fully furnished with high quality furnishings. The last thing someone at ceo level or similar wants to be doing is traipsing around buying furniture.

    Also very unlikely for a person like above moving their family anywhere, family will stay at home in their own county they won’t be moving around from place to place.

    Also I’m not renting anywhere and the condensing remark about “people I’d be involved with” is quite funny since I deal with senior people from very large international companies regularly in my job. Also contrary to your usual rabble the most senior people I know own large properties outside cities in rural or semi rural areas they have no interest in being stuck small city properties.


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    #69
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Or they own a small property in city for weekdays and go home for weekend.

    Most people you mention that are high net worth individuals wont need to rent for long. this tiny proportion of the market you are mentioning is a non issue - its just too small.


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    #70
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »
    I would very much doubt someone moving here for three years would have any interest in renting unfurnished. They would most likely be given a very high end property fully furnished with high quality furnishings. The last thing someone at ceo level or similar wants to be doing is traipsing around buying furniture.

    Also very unlikely for a person like above moving their family anywhere, family will stay at home in their own county they won’t be moving around from place to place.

    Also I’m not renting anywhere and the condensing remark about “people I’d be involved with” is quite funny since I deal with senior people from very large international companies regularly in my job. Also contrary to your usual rabble the most senior people I know own large properties outside cities in rural or semi rural areas they have no interest in being stuck small city properties.

    I'm sorry you're offended. It wasn't meant. But this is my experience renting out property.


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    #71
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    That would be a headache for LLs in my opinion. You'd be lining yourself up for "oh we will move out but can we leave our stuff in the house for a week until our new place is ready?" Then one week becomes six or some other crap like that.
    When they move out, they move out. All of their stuff either goes with them, or either the LL sells the stuff off for cheap or a skip is hired to bin their stuff. This would come out of their deposit, as you'd treat their stuff as rubbish.
    Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »
    As for moving it no being a pain, I always found moving a massive pain and already have a massive amount of stuff without any furniture. Took me multiple car ruins and two trips with a pick-up and trailer to move out of my last houseshare and I was only renting a room.
    Having rented unfurnished in Toronto, the moves generally get done with the likes of uHaul. For CAD$20 (and maybe another CAD$15 for fuel), I'd get a 10ft box truck (the largest truck I could drive on my "car" license, and would move my apartment in a few hours.

    It's probably a chicken & egg situation of who came first; the movers or the trucks to move them.
    Graces7 wrote: »
    For many eg pensioners, the cost of furnishing is beyond us.
    In a country where buying unfurnished is rare, maybe. But in countries where people are downsizing, moving, etc, you'll see beds, cupboards, or even the contents of an entire apartment being sold off cheap enough.
    Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »
    Very debatable, people who really make a place their home are much more likely to dig their heals in and be harder to get rid of if you want to in future. Kids in school etc nearby will make it worse etc.
    Blame the laws of the land, tbh. In Toronto, once evicted, the tenant has to talk to the landlord to arrange to get their stuff out, and to do so in one day. Whatever is left, gets thrown out.
    Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »
    Also contrary to your usual rabble the most senior people I know own large properties outside cities in rural or semi rural areas they have no interest in being stuck small city properties.
    Agreed. If they're staying in the city centre, they need a gated carpark. If outside the city, they'll be staying in a large gated house.


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    #72
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Accommodation in general is an issue with recruiting foreign workers. Outside the EU and that is compounded by enormous car insurance rates. The rule of the catholic church over most of our schools is also frequently offputting.

    I wouldn't say it's true that richer tenants are necessarily better tenants. Someone about to put a deposit down on a house doesn't need to worry about a good reference or a maintaining a preferential rental rate in a crazily expensive market. Just don't rent your house to scumbags and you're good.


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    #73
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »
    Having lived in houseshare (only type of rental I've lived in actually) I really do think they are the superior choice for a LL

    Wait wait wait... Are you basing your opinion on zero LL experience? Just tenancy? Did you go from your family home, to a houseshare, to minded by your wife? And now you are offering up advice on profitability, based on imaginary scenarios.


    I love this. Everyone and their mother thinks they are expert at the housing business having less than zero experience at it. :D


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    #74
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Rebecca Drab Scrap wrote: »
    Accommodation in general is an issue with recruiting foreign workers. Outside the EU and that is compounded by enormous car insurance rates. The rule of the catholic church over most of our schools is also frequently offputting.

    I wouldn't say it's true that richer tenants are necessarily better tenants. Someone about to put a deposit down on a house doesn't need to worry about a good reference or a maintaining a preferential rental rate in a crazily expensive market. Just don't rent your house to scumbags and you're good.

    I doubt too many foreigners give a damn about the church school thing, that's more a D4 concern


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    #75
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    I doubt too many foreigners give a damn about the church school thing, that's more a D4 concern
    It was the stated reason for a software architect (who seemed pretty good) to quit within two weeks and return to Romania. Perhaps it is more an educated people concern.


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    #76
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Rebecca Drab Scrap wrote: »
    It was the stated reason for a software architect (who seemed pretty good) to quit within two weeks and return to Romania. Perhaps it is more an educated people concern.

    Exactly the kind of reply I expected


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    #77
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »
    I would very much doubt someone moving here for three years would have any interest in renting unfurnished. They would most likely be given a very high end property fully furnished with high quality furnishings. The last thing someone at ceo level or similar wants to be doing is traipsing around buying furniture.

    I'd love to see an irish landlord's "high quality furnishings". Probably something like Gerald Kean would choose.


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    #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    pwurple wrote: »
    Wait wait wait... Are you basing your opinion on zero LL experience? Just tenancy? Did you go from your family home, to a houseshare, to minded by your wife? And now you are offering up advice on profitability, based on imaginary scenarios.


    I love this. Everyone and their mother thinks they are expert at the housing business having less than zero experience at it. :D

    You don’t have to do something directly to have an in-depth understanding of the system and how it works. I also essentially managed two of the houseshres for the LL, delt with finding people for rooms for him (down to the level of placing the ads, vetting the new tenants) etc.
    Rebecca Drab Scrap wrote: »
    It was the stated reason for a software architect (who seemed pretty good) to quit within two weeks and return to Romania. Perhaps it is more an educated people concern.

    That’s some seriously condescending stuff. You do realise highly educated people are also often religious. It’s also nonsense to suggest that people aren’t moving here because of catholic schools, many of the people that move here are catholic too remember and often you will see many nationalities at mass.

    Just because one fool decided to quit a job and move because of it means nothing (if it’s even true). Better off without him if that’s the way he regards our country.
    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    I'd love to see an irish landlord's "high quality furnishings". Probably something like Gerald Kean would choose.

    LLs involved in corporate and high end lettings will know how to kit a place out.


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    #79
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    I'd love to see an irish landlord's "high quality furnishings". Probably something like Gerald Kean would choose.

    The only person that traipses around buying furniture is the interior design team hired by the CEO's spouse or partner (who doesn't work) when it comes to high end unfurnished lettings.

    A completely different scene to the college style shared rentals in housing estates that nox is accustomed to.


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    #80
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    I'd love to see an irish landlord's "high quality furnishings". Probably something like Gerald Kean would choose.

    Have a look on daft at some of the high end rentals.... Beautifully furnished as they should be for the money they charge.

    Not like we plebs get.. one rental had holes punched into the backs of wardrobes etc


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    #81
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »
    You don’t have to do something directly to have an in-depth understanding of the system and how it works.

    Sure sure. I bought a bar of chocolate once. Glad to hear I can now advise on how to run a chocolate factory, supply chain and supermarket.


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    #82
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Why is there suddenly talk about some CEO of a toilet paper company who wants to sell his bloody Charmin in Ireland and needs an 8 bedroom luxury penthouse? That's a small proportion of the market.

    Wasn't this originally about the working pleb who's trying to keep a roof over their head, maybe even have family and can go from one rental to another and nobody should dare for their tens of thousands they're handing over to feel comfortable and homely in their rental home?
    Cities now hire international graduates, they struggle to find a place, they need to jump at what's available so the landlord gets away with the muck of furniture they're putting in. If I'd be in the position to fork out a sweet grand a month for a room close to Facebook HQ I'd rather prefer to be able making it a bit homely because sometimes even the good working bee is spending a few hours unwinding at home.

    It's beyond me that people argue that it's still a step in people's life before you get a mortgage. More elderly than ever rely on rental properties, more families too. There's a huge shift happening and long-term rental is the unwelcome future, in what sort of bubble do people live that deny that?

    I appreciate there's no culture of renting (yet) but burying the head in sand isn't the solution. It's a fact that people care about their own stuff better than the skip finds of the landlord.

    For some rental situations furnishing makes total sense. For others it doesn't. It's really not that difficult to understand.


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    #83
    crossmolinalad
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭crossmolinalad


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You can't rent a place without them in Ireland.

    O yes you can
    I renting a house complete empty everything even white goods are mine
    We wont "crapp" used by others
    Its the third house we rent empty since 20 years here in Ireland
    One house was a washing machine and a microwave and some other "rubbish" in and dumped it directly in the shed


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    #84
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    LirW wrote: »
    Why is there suddenly talk about some CEO of a toilet paper company who wants to sell his bloody Charmin in Ireland and needs an 8 bedroom luxury penthouse? That's a small proportion of the market.

    Wasn't this originally about the working pleb who's trying to keep a roof over their head, maybe even have family and can go from one rental to another and nobody should dare for their tens of thousands they're handing over to feel comfortable and homely in their rental home?
    Cities now hire international graduates, they struggle to find a place, they need to jump at what's available so the landlord gets away with the muck of furniture they're putting in. If I'd be in the position to fork out a sweet grand a month for a room close to Facebook HQ I'd rather prefer to be able making it a bit homely because sometimes even the good working bee is spending a few hours unwinding at home.

    It's beyond me that people argue that it's still a step in people's life before you get a mortgage. More elderly than ever rely on rental properties, more families too. There's a huge shift happening and long-term rental is the unwelcome future, in what sort of bubble do people live that deny that?

    I appreciate there's no culture of renting (yet) but burying the head in sand isn't the solution. It's a fact that people care about their own stuff better than the skip finds of the landlord.

    For some rental situations furnishing makes total sense. For others it doesn't. It's really not that difficult to understand.

    Not sure if you have an axe to grind with your last comment. High net worth individuals are a small proportion of the market but the findings are the same that unfurnished rentals would be liked by some people in the market.

    Ll put in crap furniture for a reason. Wear and tear appears to be much greater on ll furniture than on PPR stuff. I put the exact same stuff into 3 different places with different tenants. Some last twice to 3 times as long as others due to tenants not taking care of the stuff. Why would a ll put quality furniture into a medium to low rent place when they will need to replace it regularly. From a business point of view, it doesn’t make sense.

    That’s why if tenants had to provide for all of this stuff. They can dictate the quality and maintain or not maintain it as it’s no concern for the ll. Kitchen appliances such as fridges and microwave should also belong to tenants as they are easy to swap.


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    crossmolinalad wrote: »
    O yes you can
    I renting a house complete empty everything even white goods are mine
    We wont "crapp" used by others
    Its the third house we rent empty since 20 years here in Ireland
    One house was a washing machine and a microwave and some other "rubbish" in and dumped it directly in the shed

    Legally you can’t, the LL is in breach of tenancy law by renting you a house without them.


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    #86
    crossmolinalad
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭crossmolinalad


    Fol20 wrote: »
    I honestly don’t think this is an issue for recruitment. Yes there is a housing crisis and this will impact it however furnish vs unfurnished is an after thought in the grander scale of things. It wouldn’t be economical to move beds etc from one country to another either so they would buy the bulk of that stuff in the country they live in.

    I do think unfurnished is better in the future for long term tenancies but we’re not at that stage yet where ll can offer unfurnished without us taking some form of a hit.


    Moved all of my furniture from Holland to Ireland 18 years ago , costs 500 euro
    Share a truck/trailer sea container with 4 others , transport from door to door
    You wont buy a good bed for it here in Ireland


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    #87
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »
    Legally you can’t, the LL is in breach of tenancy law by renting you a house without them.

    as he said he dumped what was provided. Perfectly OK


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    #88
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Not sure if you have an axe to grind with your last comment. High net worth individuals are a small proportion of the market but the findings are the same that unfurnished rentals would be liked by some people in the market.

    Ll put in crap furniture for a reason. Wear and tear appears to be much greater on ll furniture than on PPR stuff. I put the exact same stuff into 3 different places with different tenants. Some last twice to 3 times as long as others due to tenants not taking care of the stuff. Why would a ll put quality furniture into a medium to low rent place when they will need to replace it regularly. From a business point of view, it doesn’t make sense.

    That’s why if tenants had to provide for all of this stuff. They can dictate the quality and maintain or not maintain it as it’s no concern for the ll. Kitchen appliances such as fridges and microwave should also belong to tenants as they are easy to swap.

    See, I only ever rented unfurnished because that's the way it is pretty much everywhere on the continent. I grew up in rentals and in my first 25 years of my life I moved a dozen times and it's completely normal to move with everything you have, bar the kitchen that's usually provided.

    I get that it makes sense not providing fancy stuff for rentals but then again see it from the other side: you're paying big money to have a couch on the verge of breaking and beds that have seen their retirement a decade ago.
    So as a tenant you either accept it or provide your own, given your landlords lets that happen.
    I know a landlord sees it as business mostly but I dislike the notion of dismissing that someone else is paying tens of thousands every year for a service, a roof over their head and is still seen as cattle that should be removed at the first sign of trouble (as in god beware they ask for having something fixed).

    This is why I believe that unfurnished is the best for everyone. The landlord doesn't have to worry about furniture (bar what he has to provide) and the tenant can bring furniture of their liking or suiting their needs.
    I remember the topic comes up occasionally on this very board that people have a really horrible bed and can't get restful sleep, the landlord won't replace it or won't let them change it either. That's pointless for everyone involved and honestly for the money people are paying at the moment I don't think it's too much of an ask to have a decent enough bed and couch.


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    #89
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    religious or not, most people aren't roman catholic. most people who aren't Roman catholic don't want extremely limited options for schools that dont indoctrinate RC mysticism. The whole paedo aspect does come up when they look too.


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    #90
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    accommodation & property *cough cough*

    :)


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    #91
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,508 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    We let a property unfurnished.

    There’s enough maintenance without furniture too.

    10% below rate of furnished


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