Unfurnished

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 08-07-2019 8:15pm

Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »

How many people actually want to buy stuff for a rental though, very very few I would imagine? It's costly, it's a nuisance buying it, setting it up and moving it when moving and as most people see renting as a temporary thing when they buy their own place they will likely want to buy furniture which best suits the house rather than the stop gap stuff they used in rentals. Even people who own a house, sell it and buy another house usually leave the furniture and buy new stuff best suited for the new place.

While you see some people posting here who want to rent unfurnished I would think that in general its a very small percentage of people who want to do it.

It’s the norm in other countries including parts of the UK. I wanted to rent my own place as a graduate in the UK but couldn’t afford it because I didn’t have the funds saved that people from other countries would have to buy the furnished and white goods I needed to. Literally every apartment rental in my city was unfurnished.

As for the furniture not matching, nicely-designed furniture fits in anywhere. The idea of furniture only suiting one abode is an odd one to me.

I would love to have my own furniture in our rental but the LL doesn’t have room to take the items we’d like to change. We’d like a bigger sofa and we hate the bed frame of our bed. It’s huge and it’s very heavy. Big bed frames are the most pointless thing ever. All we get from ours is bruised shins.

I’d have no problem with a move to unfurnished. People would adjust.

08-07-2019 11:29pm

LirW wrote: »

Long-term renting is becoming the norm in many areas of the country through. Plenty of people I work with would rather rent in the cities than buying further outside. Each to their own.
And no, moving with your own furniture is no big deal. You get a van, spend a few hours loading and unloading it and it's fine.
When I rented I bought the same stuff I'd now buy for my house. I much prefer having my own bed, mattress (I'm a bad sleeper and my mattress is invaluable) and generally making a the place my own.

I understand that for many it's just something you do until you buy but the trend is moving towards long-term rental, that's difficult to deny.

I do see it talked about here that more people are renting for life and hear it on the radio now and then but it’s certainly not something I see personally. Most of my peer group (early 30’s) and work colleagues already have built or bought houses, some are in the building/buying process and the few left that don’t fall into the two catogries are saving a deposit. I don’t to my knowledge know a single person who plans to rent any longer than they absolutely have to.

Now most of my friends/family are based outside Dublin but I do have some friends who bought within commuting distance of Dublin rather than rent.

I really believe that the vast majority of Irish people still plan to and will buy so while I do think there is a market for unfurnished I think it’s still a small minority of the market. More people than ever are housesharing than ever before trying to save deposits and this really does not suit unfurnished. How do houseshares work in counties where it’s all unfurnished let’s?

Mr.S wrote: »

It's really not that hard to move furniture, a day max unless you have a mansion. It's a niche market for sure (in Ireland) but we've rented our last 3 places unfurnished. Massive benefit in picking your own, nice furniture that you like. A god send having a decent bed and couch tbh

I only rented for a limited time and only in houseshares so would never even consider buying furniture but even if I ever rented a full house I would have no interest in buying furniture as to me it would be a waste of money and hassle. The stuff you buy for a rental is very unlikely to fit or suit your house (well in my case anyway). I’m currently doing the plans for my house and the furniture that I will put in it probably wouldn’t even have fit in the kitchen/living room/bedroom of any of the places I rented (If say I’d rented the full place unfurnished).

As for moving it no being a pain, I always found moving a massive pain and already have a massive amount of stuff without any furniture. Took me multiple car ruins and two trips with a pick-up and trailer to move out of my last houseshare and I was only renting a room.

Graces7 · 09-07-2019 10:08am

Mr.S wrote: »

I guess it depends on the type of renter you are. If you are jumping from houseshare to houseshare and only renting for the short term, then it doesn’t make sense to go unfurnished.

But people who treat rentals like their own home (which it is) then it’s an option.

For many eg pensioners, the cost of furnishing is beyond us.

JustAThought · 09-07-2019 10:20am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That would be a headache for LLs in my opinion. You'd be lining yourself up for "oh we will move out but can we leave our stuff in the house for a week until our new place is ready?" Then one week becomes six or some other crap like that.

Thats schoolboy stuff - yiu're in, you're paying rent. There are plenty of alternatives for storage nowadays - by the room, container or pen. No excuse to make excuses or requests of that kind thankfully. I agree with the zero discount - you'll never get the rent back up to par if the next renter wants furnished. Plus the majority I imagine would want rent furnished - the cost of kitting out a house properly is expensive if done properly & with new & ok quality goods.

Fol20 · 09-07-2019 11:45am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Even if you cut out 90% of potential tenants by being unfurnished you'll a) still have loads of potentials and b) might even attract a few people that don't want a furnished place. I would have thought you'd cut out a lot of the less desirable tenants also.

Even if some of this might be true, it’s still sales related and your cutting out 95pc of your audience by doing this. Why shoot yourself in the foot?

jlm29 · 09-07-2019 11:51am

Fol20 wrote: »

Even if some of this might be true, it’s still sales related and your cutting out 95pc of your audience by doing this. Why shoot yourself in the foot?

The 5% you’re not cutting out are probably the 5% you want the most.

Fol20 · 09-07-2019 11:51am

Graces7 wrote: »

For many eg pensioners, the cost of furnishing is beyond us.

I would presume if you are a pensioner, you would have accumulated some form of wealth throughout your working life and would have steadily bought a couch etc.

If you are talking about social housing. This is not relevant here as they would only be talking about private renting.

If your young, it just means you will have an empty house, start off with a mattress and go from there. We all start somewhere and you gradually build up your collection of house stuff.

Fol20 · 09-07-2019 11:55am

jlm29 wrote: »

The 5% you’re not cutting out are probably the 5% you want the most.

Yes this could be true or it may not. Just because a tenant has their own stuff doesn’t mean they will always pay rent or not do anti social behavior. I wouldn’t view them any better or worse imo.

More than likely they are family’s and given our current environment and legislation. I would prefer professionals than family’s

skallywag · 09-07-2019 12:12pm

I am all for renting unfurnished and have long being saying that Ireland needs to tend to this direction if the rental market is going to grow and mature to any where near the levels that one sees in the likes of Germany, etc.

There is no way I would be offering a discount OP, I would much prefer to rent a place which is empty than a place full of the landlord's belongings which are number one not mine but the landlord's, and number two I am more than likely not going to like anyway. My only wish is that the place be in good order when I move in, i.e. freshly painted and floors in a reasonable condition. Of course the 'basics' which I cannot reasonably install myself (or remove if I move) need to be there such as toilet, sinks, cooker, etc. but as for any perceived trimmings such as shower curtains, cheap shelves, wonky beds, anemic kettles, cheap or unreliable old white goods etc I would honestly just prefer if they were not there in the first place.

Mind you I once encountered a situation where the previous renter was even removing (cheap and old) bulbs from the light fittings, that I found a bit OTT, but hey, they were his bulbs I guess!

09-07-2019 12:25pm

Graces7 wrote: »

For many eg pensioners, the cost of furnishing is beyond us.

How many pensioners are renting though? Ive never encountered a pensioner renting in my life, they all own their homes.

jlm29 wrote: »

The 5% you’re not cutting out are probably the 5% you want the most.

Very debatable, people who really make a place their home are much more likely to dig their heals in and be harder to get rid of if you want to in future. Kids in school etc nearby will make it worse etc.

Renting rooms separately to young professional imo is the best way to operate a rental house. It’s makes more money, has much less risk of losing out in rent and people will never want to stay long term so always easy to get the place back if you want to.

skallywag wrote: »

I am all for renting unfurnished and have long being saying that Ireland needs to tend to this direction if the rental market is going to grow and mature to any where near the levels that one sees in the likes of Germany, etc.
!

Germany is very much an outlier and arrived where it did due to ww2 not any grand plan. Having most people renting is certainly not something “mature”’ or what we should be striving for. Owning your home should be the aim for anyone and the state should want its citizens to own.

Home ownership is far far higher in Europe (outside of Germany) than many posters here would lead you to believe, many even higher than Ireland despite being used as example where “everybody rents for life”.

skallywag · 09-07-2019 12:50pm

Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »

Germany is very much an outlier and arrived where it did due to ww2 not any grand plan. Having most people renting is certainly not something “mature”’ or what we should be striving for. Owning your home should be the aim for anyone and the state should want its citizens to own.

I was speaking of the market itself maturing, I am amused at the manner in which you try to spin it now to make it look like I was saying that renting is a mature thing to do :rolleyes:

Nonetheless it is still very much a fact that finding an unfurnished rental property is much much easier in, say, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands, etc, than it is in Ireland.

Graces7 · 09-07-2019 1:56pm

Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »

How many pensioners are renting though? Ive never encountered a pensioner renting in my life, they all own their homes.

Well you have met at least one! I am a pensioner and I rent, as I have done for decades.

And I know others.

Graces7 · 09-07-2019 1:58pm

Fol20 wrote: »

I would presume if you are a pensioner, you would have accumulated some form of wealth throughout your working life and would have steadily bought a couch etc.

Not necessarily

pwurple · 09-07-2019 2:15pm

Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »

How many pensioners are renting though? Ive never encountered a pensioner renting in my life, they all own their homes.

That's just a function of the small number of people across various stages of life that you have met. There are plenty of renting pensioners.

Michelle Silly Bat wrote: »

Very debatable, people who really make a place their home are much more likely to dig their heals in and be harder to get rid of if you want to in future. Kids in school etc nearby will make it worse etc.

??? Why would you want to get rid of them? I'm in the business of providing homes for people, it would be completely unethical to uproot them, especially if they have kids in school.

If you have good tenants, you want to keep them. It's mutually beneficial for all to have happy tenants and a happy service provider.

Renting rooms separately to young professional imo is the best way to operate a rental house. It’s makes more money, has much less risk of losing out in rent and people will never want to stay long term so always easy to get the place back if you want to.

That's a small part of the market, yes. A properly functional rental sector caters to a wider range of needs. I disagree it makes more money, my experience is that short term tenants end up costing more in overhead and wear. It's more stressful to manage as well. There is always a learning curve when people move in, no matter how complete your manual is... and it's not possible to get people in and re-let in one day, so you have far more periods of vacancy, which earns you nothing.

Germany is very much an outlier and arrived where it did due to ww2 not any grand plan. Having most people renting is certainly not something “mature”’ or what we should be striving for. Owning your home should be the aim for anyone and the state should want its citizens to own.

Home ownership is far far higher in Europe (outside of Germany) than many posters here would lead you to believe, many even higher than Ireland despite being used as example where “everybody rents for life”.

Disagree with all of this. No-one says "everyone rents for life"... where did that notion come from?

A mixed range of housing caters to most / all of the market. We aren't all cookie cutter versions of eachother. Life throws up all sorts of changes, and different people need different housing at different times. Especially as we are more mobile now. We're not living in a time or place where you are born, life your life in the same down and die there. A heck of a lot of people travel and live and work in various countries, or around this country.

A functioning MIX of rental and owned is the ideal.

skallywag · 09-07-2019 5:17pm

pwurple wrote: »

A functioning MIX of rental and owned is the ideal.

Spot on.

The notion that a mature rental market and 'everybody rents for life' go hand in hand is frankly naive if not ridiculous.

There will be times in many people's lives where renting will be the preferred option at that particular point in time. It does not mean at all that they are necessarily going to be renting forever, it just means that they do not particularly want to purchase a home at that point in time, or in that location. In such circumstances the more choice I have the better, and I would consider having an option to rent an unfurnished home as a big plus.

09-07-2019 5:39pm

pwurple wrote: »

??? Why would you want to get rid of them? I'm in the business of providing homes for people, it would be completely unethical to uproot them, especially if they have kids in school.

Any number of reasons, some you mighn't even think off. I'd personally prefer to keep the max control over the property. The business is to make money also not to provide homes.

pwurple wrote: »

I disagree it makes more money, my experience is that short term tenants end up costing more in overhead and wear. It's more stressful to manage as well. There is always a learning curve when people move in, no matter how complete your manual is... and it's not possible to get people in and re-let in one day, so you have far more periods of vacancy, which earns you nothing.

Having lived in houseshare (only type of rental I've lived in actually) I really do think they are the superior choice for a LL. The fact you have to be a bit more hands on is a good thing, you can keep a much closer eye on the place for example. Leaving rpz rules aside you can charge more to 3 individuals renting a room than to as a whole, even if one stops paying rent you have the other 2 so less loss from a "bad tenant". As for vacancy I see it the opposite way. Chances are only one room renter will be moving out at a time so even if it takes a little time to find someone you still have the rent coming in from the others. But as its only a room people are renting it much quicker for them to move in and out and there is a lot of people looking for shares so you could easily have no period of vacancy.

Electric Sheep · 09-07-2019 6:38pm

karenalot wrote: »

I have been renting out family properties unfurnished for the past few years. White walls, wooden floors and good quality appliances, the rest is up to the tenants. Never had an issue getting calls. In this market especially around Dublin, it’s quite the opposite.

Some of the stuff Irish landlords put into properties is fairly horrifying. Bargaintown and skip scavenging springs to mind.

I will never forget the horrible furniture in Dublin rentals, most of it genuinely did appear to have been scavenged from a skip. Jesus, the carpets I saw...

Loved it when I moved to the US, and "white goods" - fridge, stove, microwave were all that was supplied. When we bought our place, we simply moved our furniture to the new place.

It's a much better system for professionals who choose to rent for a couple of years in a new city, while they learn the lie of the land, so to speak.

Of course, good apartments come with a credit check over here.

Fol20 · 09-07-2019 6:47pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Not necessarily

I would be wondering what did the pensioner do for 40 working years of their life to not have enough money to have a bed.

Viscount Aggro · 09-07-2019 6:52pm

There will be plenty of pensioners renting, 20 years from now.
The same people who are renters now, and think its OK.

Graces7 · 10-07-2019 7:24am

Fol20 wrote: »

I would be wondering what did the pensioner do for 40 working years of their life to not have enough money to have a bed.

Well, given major disabling illness for many, many years....and given that rentals provide a bed..rent and food and fuel have priority over extras . Any small furniture I have is via V de P ;s excellent furniture shops.

Many folk fall on hard times through no fault of their own. So furnished is welcome. I do now have my own freezer etc from tenancies before they were de rigueur.

splinter65 · 10-07-2019 7:29am

I would think that you might be waiting a bit longer to find tenants, but the tenants you’ll get will be less troublesome in the long run.

handlemaster · 10-07-2019 7:31am

Everleigh Bitter Bomb wrote: »

I always searched for unfurnished dwellings, but found it next to impossible in Ireland. I want to live in a home. The taste most landlords have is questionable, and wtf is with those bloody box bed things with the 1970s material covering them, awful altogether.

Tenants break normal beds . Would you believe that! Ive never broken a bed but its normal for tenants to do so. Plus these box beds are cheaper and more robust in the long term.

Fol20 · 10-07-2019 8:47am

Graces7 wrote: »

Well, given major disabling illness for many, many years....and given that rentals provide a bed..rent and food and fuel have priority over extras . Any small furniture I have is via V de P ;s excellent furniture shops.

Many folk fall on hard times through no fault of their own. So furnished is welcome. I do now have my own freezer etc from tenancies before they were de rigueur.

Fair enough. In that case, I will revert back to my original comment that should be more of a social aspect while the unfurnished debate is for private renting.

woodchuck · 10-07-2019 9:12am

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Loved it when I moved to the US, and "white goods" - fridge, stove, microwave were all that was supplied. When we bought our place, we simply moved our furniture to the new place.

That's fine when you're in a country where the majority of rental properties are unfurnished. Because it's not the norm in Ireland though, it becomes a hassle when it's time to move. Unless you (severely) limit yourself to places that are unfurnished, you'll be stuck trying to store/sell furniture that you have only owned for a relatively short period of time.

handlemaster · 10-07-2019 9:24am

woodchuck wrote: »

That's fine when you're in a country where the majority of rental properties are unfurnished. Because it's not the norm in Ireland though, it becomes a hassle when it's time to move. Unless you (severely) limit yourself to places that are unfurnished, you'll be stuck trying to store/sell furniture that you have only owned for a relatively short period of time.

the cycle has to break sometime if that is what the tenants want

Bandana boy · 10-07-2019 9:58am

I rented my property unfurnished
I charge market rate in the area , I rented it last time 4 days after listing and my small sample size is you get less troublesome tenants.

Graces7 · 10-07-2019 11:00am

handlemaster wrote: »

Tenants break normal beds . Would you believe that! Ive never broken a bed but its normal for tenants to do so. Plus these box beds are cheaper and more robust in the long term.

The bed in my previous rental had a felt pad an inch thick as a mattress... you could feel the wooden slats through it. luck of the draw..

Here I have a splendid bed; even high enough for an oldie...

skallywag · 10-07-2019 11:31am

The lack of unfurnished rental homes is most certainly an issue for a lot of people, and those who think otherwise are looking at things from a youthful houseshare perspective and not seeing the big picture.

Sure, when one has just finished studying or started out on a career path then not many are going to want to buy furniture or could care less about the decor in the house, I know I most certainly did not when I was in that position. There comes a point though that one has enough of house sharing (I know I could never now go back to that) and wants a place to call home, without necessarily wanting to buy.

This is actually also a serious hurdle in trying to recruit experienced people into Ireland, or trying to persuade expats to come home, as someone with 20 years of experience or so is typically going to have a lot of furniture etc which they have invested quite a lot in and will not want to lose.

Fol20 · 10-07-2019 1:44pm

skallywag wrote: »

The lack of unfurnished rental homes is most certainly an issue for a lot of people, and those who think otherwise are looking at things from a youthful houseshare perspective and not seeing the big picture.

Sure, when one has just finished studying or started out on a career path then not many are going to want to buy furniture or could care less about the decor in the house, I know I most certainly did not when I was in that position. There comes a point though that one has enough of house sharing (I know I could never now go back to that) and wants a place to call home, without necessarily wanting to buy.

This is actually also a serious hurdle in trying to recruit experienced people into Ireland, or trying to persuade expats to come home, as someone with 20 years of experience or so is typically going to have a lot of furniture etc which they have invested quite a lot in and will not want to lose.

I honestly don’t think this is an issue for recruitment. Yes there is a housing crisis and this will impact it however furnish vs unfurnished is an after thought in the grander scale of things. It wouldn’t be economical to move beds etc from one country to another either so they would buy the bulk of that stuff in the country they live in.

I do think unfurnished is better in the future for long term tenancies but we’re not at that stage yet where ll can offer unfurnished without us taking some form of a hit.

skallywag · 10-07-2019 2:33pm

Fol20 wrote: »

I honestly don’t think this is an issue for recruitment.

Perhaps not so much for recruiting graduates or younger workers, but it is certainly an issue when recruiting for someone with a vast amount of experience under their belt.

In such cases it can be quite common to offer an attractive relocation package where the company will cover the cost of moving/shipping a substantial amount of furniture, which a potential employee can often have if they have been working on mainland Europe where the norm tends to be rent unfurnished. It can often be the case that someone has accumulated quite a lot of valuable items by then, and finding somewhere suitable to live can often be the deciding factor on where the person ultimately decides to relocate to.

Unfurnished

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