AMD Zen Discussion Thread

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-07-2019 10:43pm

z0oT wrote: »

12 cores on a low end budget B350 motherboard. Impressive that it's handled just fine at stock. Probably means that the 3900X or 3950X will actually be handled okay in an ITX system with a good motherboard.

The above makes me hope somebody will try a 3950X (when it comes out) on an A320 motherboard just for giggles. :P

I saw one of the techtubers was ordering an a320 go try the 3900x to **** around with as they didn't have one. If you could get the 3600 running stock with it's stated boost clock stable that would be incredible value for money for someone on a strict budget.

Throw in an RX 570 and you could build a 1080p high graphics 60fps entry level machine for much less than €500.

K.O.Kiki · 11-07-2019 6:35am

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I saw one of the techtubers was ordering an a320 go try the 3900x to **** around with as they didn't have one. If you could get the 3600 running stock with it's stated boost clock stable that would be incredible value for money for someone on a strict budget.

Throw in an RX 570 and you could build a 1080p high graphics 60fps entry level machine for much less than €500.

You can do that with a 2600 right now.

Subcomandante Marcos · 11-07-2019 7:05am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

You can do that with a 2600 right now.

But why settle for a 2600 when the 3600 out performs it massively?

TerrorFirmer · 11-07-2019 7:29am

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

But why settle for a 2600 when the 3600 out performs it massively?

Because it's miles cheaper and is still a good CPU. That's like saying why settle for a 9400F when the 9600K out performs it.

On a strict budget, you'd be better off with a 2600 and 1660 versus say a 3600 and 570.

shootermacg · 11-07-2019 11:31am

What would you guys suggest as a good PSU/CPU/Mainboard/RAM combo for a 3700x? Getting good bang for the buck?

Samuel T. Cogley · 11-07-2019 12:02pm

shootermacg wrote: »

What would you guys suggest as a good PSU/CPU/Mainboard/RAM combo for a 3700x? Getting good bang for the buck?

B450 tomahawk for the mainboard let you know on the rest when it arrives. Is this gaming, productivity or both?

K.O.Kiki · 11-07-2019 12:04pm

PSU: anything above 500W Gold should do. Best value right now is Riotoro Enigma G2 650W Fully modular - £73 on CCL

Motherboard wise, you can pick up the X370 ASUS Crosshair VI Hero for ~120, or a MSI B450 motherboard with BIOS Flashback. Get DDR4-3200 CL16 at the minimum - crosscheck with QVL lists but a 16Gb kit should be less than £70.

Still unsure on X570 motherboards but once prices settle, the ASUS TUF Gaming X570-Plus (Wi-Fi) or ASUS Prime X570-P might be the best bet.

2Mad2BeMad · 11-07-2019 12:05pm

Just ordered my new build

Ryzen 3600 with rtx2060 super I'm so hyped xD I'm an Intel fan boy but had to pick the amd CPU really is alot of bang for buck

shootermacg · 11-07-2019 12:49pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

B450 tomahawk for the mainboard let you know on the rest when it arrives. Is this gaming, productivity or both?

Mostly gaming to be honest.

Samuel T. Cogley · 11-07-2019 1:25pm

shootermacg wrote: »

Mostly gaming to be honest.

If it's anything over 1080p you might also consider the 3600. Not much between it and the 3700x in games, but there is a question over if it will support 3200 memory.

z0oT · 11-07-2019 2:07pm

Availability with the usual sites one would buy from here looks good. It sort of makes me tempted to take the plunge now.

Has anyone here that ordered a Ryzen 3000 received it yet? What's the delivery time like?

11-07-2019 2:44pm

z0oT wrote: »

Availability with the usual sites one would buy from here looks good. It sort of makes me tempted to take the plunge now.

Has anyone here that ordered a Ryzen 3000 received it yet? What's the delivery time like?

Ordered mine on Tuesday from Amazon and it says it will be delivered next Tuesday.

Samuel T. Cogley · 11-07-2019 3:46pm

See mine next Tuesday too :pac: but won't get up to collect it until Friday

TerrorFirmer · 11-07-2019 3:59pm

I ordered mine (3600) from OCUK on Wed with a 5700XT and set to be delivered tomorrow.

Rare that it takes longer than 2 days with OCUK. They offer a pretty great service.

deceit · 11-07-2019 4:02pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

PSU: anything above 500W Gold should do. Best value right now is Riotoro Enigma G2 650W Fully modular - £73 on CCL

Motherboard wise, you can pick up the X370 ASUS Crosshair VI Hero for ~120, or a MSI B450 motherboard with BIOS Flashback. Get DDR4-3200 CL16 at the minimum - crosscheck with QVL lists but a 16Gb kit should be less than £70.

Still unsure on X570 motherboards but once prices settle, the ASUS TUF Gaming X570-Plus (Wi-Fi) or ASUS Prime X570-P might be the best bet.

I would check the reviews for the site alternate.co.uk before ordering from them. They seem very poor and I've seen a few people say its a scam site.
That board seems suspicious low in price.

wotzgoingon · 11-07-2019 4:10pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I ordered mine (3600) from OCUK on Wed with a 5700XT and set to be delivered tomorrow.

Rare that it takes longer than 2 days with OCUK. They offer a pretty great service.

I'd wait till drivers mature with the 5700XT before writing it off as bad.

I used to think why does it take a while for AMD to always get drivers up to par. Intel released a white paper recently for their employees and said they have more people working on their software division than AMD have total employees. Nvidia would be the same.

TerrorFirmer · 11-07-2019 4:13pm

Who's writing the 5700XT off as bad though? The reference cooler isn't great but the base 5700XT card is solid.

BloodBath · 11-07-2019 4:29pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

But why settle for a 2600 when the 3600 out performs it massively?

Why get a 570 when then 5700/5700xt outperforms it massively. Same logic. Price difference matters. If it's for gaming on a budget the extra cost is always better to put into the gpu.

wotzgoingon wrote: »

I'd wait till drivers mature with the 5700XT before writing it off as bad.

These cards are the best GPU's AMD have made since first gen GCN. The 5700xt is roughly on par with the 2070S. Loses some, wins some, ties some games but I have no doubt it will go convincingly ahead with a better cooler and drivers.

yoshiktk · 11-07-2019 4:59pm

To be honest the more I read, the more I'm convinced about staying with 2600 for now. It looks and feels kinda rushed, mobo bios problems, random silicon lottery,etc.
Whether it is Amd or 3rd party problem I would wait and see how things would evolve.
I still think it is a great piece of hardware but after few problems with previous cpus You would think that Amd had it all sorted.

Skerries · 11-07-2019 5:48pm

some interesting results here

Ryzen 3000 (Zen 2) Meta Review: ~1540 Application Benchmarks & ~420 Gaming Benchmarks compiled

Samuel T. Cogley · 11-07-2019 7:00pm

On my 'backup' computer a Celeron G450 (Sandy Bridge). OMG it's slow!

Subcomandante Marcos · 11-07-2019 8:41pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I ordered mine (3600) from OCUK on Wed with a 5700XT and set to be delivered tomorrow.

Rare that it takes longer than 2 days with OCUK. They offer a pretty great service.

Surprised you went for a reference 5700xt and didn't wait for better 3rd party versions.

Canis Lupus · 11-07-2019 10:18pm

I ordered mine Monday. Posted from a shop in Brisbane to an address in Brisbane. The package is currently approx 1600km away in Melbourne and due for delivery next Wednesday. Thanks Australia post. You've done a fine job.

z0oT · 12-07-2019 6:56am

Has anyone here bought an X570 motherboard? Or is it all X470/B450/X370 that people have here?

Curious about hearing any impressions on the chipset fan.

djivide_ · 12-07-2019 7:44am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

On my 'backup' computer a Celeron G450 (Sandy Bridge). OMG it's slow!

That's because its a cut down celeron, I am still running a Sandy Bridge either 2600k or 2700k cant remember which, great little cpu and owes me nothing at this stage.

I have been on the fence for a while about upgrading my system, was waiting for the 3000 series chips to come out to decided. I have to admit I am kinda disappointed with amd's single threaded performance with the latest chips, don't get me wrong the multi threaded performance is a huge leap but would have liked to see some higher single core boost clock speeds.

The fact that the highest boost clock speeds are on the most expensive chips smells of amd trying to push people into higher priced / more cores than is really needed for most people so they can make more money. Now I know they are binning the chips and keeping the best for the higher chips I just think they purposely did not release a 6C/12T chip with a high single core max boost as it would cut into their profits.

Samuel T. Cogley · 12-07-2019 8:25am

Think the 6C part lower boost is just down to silicon quality.

TerrorFirmer · 12-07-2019 3:24pm

Got my new build from OCUK and they forgot to include the ****ing RAM. Ugh. :mad:

Probably the first time ever I don't have any spare either.

GHOST MGG · 12-07-2019 4:53pm

Thats a real bummer terrorfirmer...
few days for replacements to ship?

12-07-2019 7:54pm

Bummer alright. Look on the bright side. You'll get loads of extra bags of Haribo to make up for the inconvenience.:pac:

.G. · 12-07-2019 8:01pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Got my new build from OCUK and they forgot to include the ****ing RAM. Ugh. :mad:

Probably the first time ever I don't have any spare either.

Murphys law cos you praised them on the last page:D

What board did you go for?

TerrorFirmer · 12-07-2019 9:34pm

B450M Mortar. Got some spare RAM sorted and the board has a flashback function so updating bios was pretty painless.

Ryzen is behaving oddly though. High idle voltages, cores reving for no real reason, temps quite poor. Inclined to think the beta bios is at fault.

Also experiencing regular sharp FPS drops in games (from 120 to 30), though I don't have time right now to look into it properly.

Polar101 · 12-07-2019 9:41pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

B450M Mortar. Got some spare RAM sorted and the board has a flashback function so updating bios was pretty painless.

Got same board but my CPU hasn't arrived yet, so I haven't done the flash yet. Which BIOS version did you use? They seem to have v18 out today.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B450M-MORTAR

TerrorFirmer · 12-07-2019 9:44pm

I just updated to that, but I still have the same problem. The CPU seems to be constantly running at high voltage (1.41) even when idling or doing very little, which means temps are bad. I'm idling at 40c on a Wraith Prism.

Quite a lot of people with same voltage issue on different boards too.

smacl · 12-07-2019 10:19pm

Got the latest visual studio compiler update today which includes a significant ryzen specific performance big fix. I reckon a portion of intels current performance strength is down to years of compiler optimisation targeting Intel and that amd is likely to benefit far more from chip specific software optimisation going forward as it gains market share.

Serephucus · 13-07-2019 12:18am

Terror, Reddit post earlier suggested moving off Ryzen power plan to the regular Windows balanced one. Might be worth a look. Same guy also seemed to think Corsair's iCUE was at fault as well.

EoinHef · 13-07-2019 1:17am

Wouldnt surprise me,that iCue software is buggy as fook.

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-07-2019 7:57am

Was watching a Buildzoid video where he was undervolting and introducing Vdroop to actually allow higher boosts and lower idle voltagte. Rhis was on a 2700.

TerrorFirmer · 13-07-2019 9:28am

Serephucus wrote: »

Terror, Reddit post earlier suggested moving off Ryzen power plan to the regular Windows balanced one. Might be worth a look. Same guy also seemed to think Corsair's iCUE was at fault as well.

Yeah, I've tried both, doesn't really matter what I do to be honest.

I see AMD are blaming the 'observer effect' saying it's monitoring software instructing cores to wake-up/boost, but that's BS in my opinion.

Before I open any monitoring app I can tell something is off as the Wraith Prism (not the quietest cooler going) starts ramping up periodically even idling on Windows desktop.

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-07-2019 10:00am

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbls9g/the_final_word_on_idle_voltages_for_3rd_gen_ryzen/

Might be of some assistance

Ah see you're calling BS, well at least people can see what you're calling BS on :pac:

shootermacg · 13-07-2019 10:11am

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Yeah, I've tried both, doesn't really matter what I do to be honest.

I see AMD are blaming the 'observer effect' saying it's monitoring software instructing cores to wake-up/boost, but that's BS in my opinion.

Before I open any monitoring app I can tell something is off as the Wraith Prism (not the quietest cooler going) starts ramping up periodically even idling on Windows desktop.

This sounds awfully like a poor contact with the heat sink to me.

TerrorFirmer · 13-07-2019 10:15am

He says that CPU-Z shows the true voltages, which for me are a constant 1.41 on desktop doing nothing, and clocks rarely, if ever even, go below 3.6Ghz.

I have the latest chipset drivers, bios, have tried Ryzen/windows balanced modes, but nothing changes it.

shootermacg wrote: »

This sounds awfully like a poor contact with the heat sink to me.

It's definitely not. I've remounted it just to make sure, it's installed correctly. It's the fact that it's for some reason locked at high voltage and core speed all the time is causing the issue.

.G. · 13-07-2019 10:29am

Select MSI x570 mobos come with a free Coolermaster watercooler on Scan

https://www.scan.co.uk/shops/msi/i-love-you-3000-ryzen

K.O.Kiki · 13-07-2019 11:10am

shootermacg · 13-07-2019 11:18am

.G. wrote: »

Select MSI x570 mobos come with a free Coolermaster watercooler on Scan

https://www.scan.co.uk/shops/msi/i-love-you-3000-ryzen

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/msi-drops-functions-from-bios-of-amds-300-and-400-series-motherboards-to-support-ryzen-3000.html
Did I hear that MSI fcuked up with their x570 boards? They used 16MB eprom instead of a 32MB. Mightn't mean much though if you're going with the new AMDs.

.G. · 13-07-2019 12:15pm

Yeah read that but its the older boards that don't have big enough eprom to maintain compatibility with all the ryzen CPUs so if you go x570 you'll be good. Not just MSI either. First gen compatibility gets removed on the older boards to allow the new cpus to work.

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-07-2019 12:41pm

It's only Bristol Ridge being removed on some so even at that 1st gen support is still there.

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-07-2019 12:55pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

B450M Mortar. Got some spare RAM sorted and the board has a flashback function so updating bios was pretty painless.

Ryzen is behaving oddly though. High idle voltages, cores reving for no real reason, temps quite poor. Inclined to think the beta bios is at fault.

Also experiencing regular sharp FPS drops in games (from 120 to 30), though I don't have time right now to look into it properly.

Did you update with the CPU in situ on on a 'naked' board? What size USB stick did you use. Just trying to prempt some of my own issues of you don't mind me asking.

TerrorFirmer · 13-07-2019 1:09pm

I had the CPU already installed and system fully built, just used a 16GB usb3 stick. Had to rename the bios file to 'msi.rom' but other than that it genuinely was a painless procedure to be fair and only took a few minutes.

2Mad2BeMad · 13-07-2019 2:45pm

Quick question lads.
What's with the flash bios ?
I've got a b450 tomahawk and ryzen 3600 on the way
Will I have to do this bios flash too?

shootermacg · 13-07-2019 3:09pm

Saw this and I'm conflicted:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Components4All-Motherboard-3000MHz-Corsair-Pre-Built/dp/B07P14CFVC/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=i9+barebones&qid=1563030537&s=gateway&sr=8-2

AMD Zen Discussion Thread

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