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The Offseason 2019

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Hitch2222 wrote: »
    Nate sees the signal better than most, looking forward to throwing that at people preceded by a "Well actually" :pac:

    Well actually...no, no huge issues from me (bet you’re shocked?! :pac:) on that. I still won’t rule out the “eye test” completely as a touchpoint in itself though. The Kyrie example given in the article is a good reference point for this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Hitch2222 wrote: »
    I wouldn't be betting on it because outside of little interest even if I did have a strong rationale you'd be allowed bet 50e but The Field is evens vs Zion for ROY.

    That seems fantastic value to me, 50% chance on 50 odd rookies beating 1 albeit an unbelievable prospect.

    That’s great value. Zion looked even heavier than usual the other night and his shooting touch was off, he got blocked, and looked small at times v the Knicks B team. When he plays bigger, tougher teams he could struggle.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Angliru


    Funny how these SLs are working out. Some lower picks in the draft doing very well whereas some of the big names are playing poorly. RJ Barrett has looked atrocious. Zion looks overweight and his shot is completely broken. I thought Barrett would be a good shout for ROY as he's on a terrible team and is the instant biggest name there but he's really struggled so far.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    Well actually...no, no huge issues from me (bet you’re shocked?! :pac:) on that. I still won’t rule out the “eye test” completely as a touchpoint in itself though. The Kyrie example given in the article is a good reference point for this.

    Interesting that Kemba came out better than usual advanced metrics.

    Still no substitute for eye Embiid, Klay, Gobert etc all look even better


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Arielle Yummy Juggler


    Angliru wrote: »
    Funny how these SLs are working out. Some lower picks in the draft doing very well whereas some of the big names are playing poorly. RJ Barrett has looked atrocious. Zion looks overweight and his shot is completely broken. I thought Barrett would be a good shout for ROY as he's on a terrible team and is the instant biggest name there but he's really struggled so far.

    I think once we start getting guys out of high school we will see huge amounts of this


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    I'm keeping my ROY tip close to the chest because 20e will probably collapse the price, not like I expect anyone to follow me but I was so high on this guy earlier in the year

    I think he can have a fantastic year tbh, I'll update when I back him


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Hitch2222 wrote: »
    I'm keeping my ROY tip close to the chest because 20e will probably collapse the price, not like I expect anyone to follow me but I was so high on this guy earlier in the year

    I think he can have a fantastic year tbh, I'll update when I back him

    Ah go on, tell us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Angliru wrote: »
    Funny how these SLs are working out. Some lower picks in the draft doing very well whereas some of the big names are playing poorly. RJ Barrett has looked atrocious. Zion looks overweight and his shot is completely broken. I thought Barrett would be a good shout for ROY as he's on a terrible team and is the instant biggest name there but he's really struggled so far.

    Uh, it's the Knicks. Can't have good things.

    Tbf Barrett appears to have played a bit better in his most recent game, but the rest of the team bar the 2d round pick are doing poorly. Kevin Knox has largely been invisible, kind of like most of last season.

    Interesting that the high picks pretty much goof off between the draft and the start of summer camp, but their futures are made and most of them aren't worried about classes anymore (not like they ever exactly worried, but some of them might've been interested in graduating.)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    Ah go on, tell us.

    He didn't play last night, I imagine you can probably guess from that


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Hitch2222 wrote: »
    He didn't play last night, I imagine you can probably guess from that

    Honestly haven’t a clue as apart from 9mins of Zion and a very brief looks at the Chinese National Team and Tacko Fall I have zero interest in this year’s Summer League.

    Porter Jr.?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    Honestly haven’t a clue as apart from 9mins of Zion and a very brief looks at the Chinese National Team and Tacko Fall I have zero interest in this year’s Summer League.

    Porter Jr.?

    Done now.

    Coby White, I was very impressed with him at UNC, he's a good start to the Summer League

    25-4-3
    15-6-5
    17-3-3

    I don't think it would take much to get the start over Dunn either. 33/1 to bink ROY feels generous


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,037 ✭✭✭✭Osmosis Jones


    Summer League is mostly terrible, it's not pre-season it's just a couple rookies paired up with a bunch of guys you've never heard of playing iso ball every possession because they're trying to earn an NBA contract. I'll still watch it just to see how Portland's young lads look, Nassir Little looks extremely raw, hasn't had a good game yet but did throw down this massive dunk last night. Rookie drafted from IMG last year Anfernee Simons looks great, had 35 last night.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,422 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Yeah summer league is dreadful.

    I was surprised how out of shape Zion looked mind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Hitch2222 wrote: »
    Done now.

    Coby White, I was very impressed with him at UNC, he's a good start to the Summer League

    25-4-3
    15-6-5
    17-3-3

    I don't think it would take much to get the start over Dunn either. 33/1 to bink ROY feels generous

    I genuinely thought it might be him. PGs are always a good bet for ROY as they get the ball so much. PGs on bad teams? Even better.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Angliru


    What sportsbook are ye getting odds for ROY from lads? I can barely find odds offered for MVP never mind ROY.

    Yeah guessed it was him Hitch, remember you said you were fond of him at the time of the draft. Seems a really good kid, he did an AMA on Reddit the other day, came across well.

    That Bulls team is really exciting although I have some doubts about White. I'm a huuuuuge fan of LaVine, and likewise Lauri though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Angliru


    Also, Zion looking like he's eating gumbo with every meal

    D_A1AvwUcAAJd92.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Angliru wrote: »
    Also, Zion looking like he's eating gumbo with every meal

    D_A1AvwUcAAJd92.jpg

    He keeps eating like that and those knees will give way.....

    There was a pic on Twitter last weekend of Dwight Howard that I meant to post on here. He looked like he’d lost serious weight and bulk, to the point where he was barely recognisable. I’ll have a look for it tonight. The contrast between him and Zion though....:eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    I genuinely thought it might be him. PGs are always a good bet for ROY as they get the ball so much. PGs on bad teams? Even better.

    The most difficult position to master but the best opportunity to look great.

    ROY is all about volume, scoring among others and PGs have an immediate that they'll always have the ball more than every other player.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,037 ✭✭✭✭Osmosis Jones


    Yeah ROY is almost always a guard/primary ball-handler, the only instances I can think of in the past decade or so that go against that are huge talents like Blake and KAT.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    Yeah ROY is almost always a guard/primary ball-handler, the only instances I can think of in the past decade or so that go against that are huge talents like Blake and KAT.

    Embiid on a technicality would have won too, worth pointing out 2/3 of those were red shirted too which is a massive edge.
    Main reason why Porter Jr was my initial pick.

    One of the primary factors is simply mins, Bagley would have been a lot closer albeit fall short had he been given the same mins as Trae & Luka

    Bagley 21.2-10.8-1.4

    Luka 23.7-8.7-6.7

    Trae 22.3-4.3-9.4

    Bagley highest w/s per 48 but Luka substantially higher VORP and BPM than both

    All close to plus players in most categories though who h indicates a strong group


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,320 ✭✭✭v3ttel


    Summer League is mostly terrible, it's not pre-season it's just a couple rookies paired up with a bunch of guys you've never heard of playing iso ball every possession because they're trying to earn an NBA contract. I'll still watch it just to see how Portland's young lads look, Nassir Little looks extremely raw, hasn't had a good game yet but did throw down this massive dunk last night. Rookie drafted from IMG last year Anfernee Simons looks great, had 35 last night.

    Haven't even watched the highlights of anyone other than the Blazers but Simons looked like he had a couple of big games. Shame about the ankle injury but it doesn't look too serious. Interesting to see how many minutes he gets - I imagine they'll bring in a vet PG for depth, but Simons looks like he's ready to contribute now and I hope he's given enough minutes to develop.

    Trent Jr has looked pretty decent too, averaging just under 18 per game.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Latest Woj Pod (David Griffin) is very interesting. Worth listening to for as much as what he says as what he doesn’t - and he goes a lot further than I ever expected him to go publically at least on some subjects. Would urge you to listen to it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    Latest Woj Pod (David Griffin) is very interesting. Worth listening to for as much as what he says as what he doesn’t - and he goes a lot further than I ever expected him to go publically at least on some subjects. Would urge you to listen to it.

    Flat out asked Vince Carter to consider Pelicans on The Jump during Summer League, we'll keep you a roster spot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Morrison J




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,037 ✭✭✭✭Osmosis Jones


    I know they've literally played on the same team before but I have no idea how Westbrook and Harden will work together]

    Also we're about to see unprecedented levels of mental gymnastics from Rockets fans who have been complaining about Westbrook for over half a decade.

    Chris Paul must be seething, dumped onto a team in total rebuild mode destined to play tank commander for the remainder of his career.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭simongurnick


    Okc have draft picks out the ying yang now


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    I don’t even know what to make of this trade, gearing up to be one hell of a season.
    One positive for sure, Chris Paul being put out to pasture !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    Although iam sure Chris Paul will try and engineer a move to the Lakers. I would be surprised if he stays there but hopefully he does


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,037 ✭✭✭✭Osmosis Jones


    Although iam sure Chris Paul will try and engineer a move to the Lakers. I would be surprised if he stays there but hopefully he does

    There's no way he gets moved, his contract is way too big for a buyout and OKC can't trade him without giving up assets and there's no reason for them to do that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    There's no way he gets moved, his contract is way too big for a buyout and OKC can't trade him without giving up assets and there's no reason for them to do that.

    I agree but the Thunder have a ton of picks now, they could try and off load paul for some of those picks and maybe get some young talent in.
    I don’t know, it’s been a crazy few weeks anything could happen


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Weird trade, I don’t see how it answers either side’s concerns tbh. Obviously it legitimises the rumours CP3 and Harden hated each other so that’s not Houston’s problem anymore, but I still don’t see them as any more of a contender than before and they gave up a lot there so it’s a win-now move. Meanwhile OKC have taken on one monster contract to get rid of another. Feels like both wanted to offload the player but couldn’t find any suitable trades so just went with the one that was available.

    It’s sad that the original era of the Thunder is officially over, though. I remember watching Durant, Russ and Harden after their finals loss to the Heat and everyone was like “Oh they’ll be back.” And that was actually as good as it would get.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    In all though Westbrook's a better player at this stage of his career than CP3 currently, who's getting on a bit. People were skeptical of CP3 and Harden initially, and despite the relationship, the Rockets were a game away from taking down a fully fit Warriors side and going on to win the championship.

    As a Rockets fan I'm cautiously optimistic. People were making similar claims also about Wade and Lebron being high usage players too, I'm not expecting a Championship but I think we can go deep into the playoffs. We should take advantage of GSW's injury woes and get a top 3 seed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Interesting to see how Harden and Westbrook are going to share the ball.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    LeBron is sitting with Palinka and a calculator as we speak.....

    A swap with Houston for Chris Paul and assets?

    My post from the day the PG trade broke......it made the most sense from a salary perspective.

    I’d imagine the Chris Paul P|ssed Off Index is at an all time high though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    There's no way he gets moved, his contract is way too big for a buyout and OKC can't trade him without giving up assets and there's no reason for them to do that.

    There’s always the Knicks!

    Joking aside, wouldn’t rule anything out...

    Only benefit to OKC is his deal is a year shorter than Westbroooks’. I wouldn’t exactly class him as a great veteran leader/locker room guy. I’d rather give SGA the minutes and let him develop - it’s not like they’re going to the play offs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Would be a terrible move by the Lakers to go after Paul.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    kmart6 wrote: »
    Interesting to see how Harden and Westbrook are going to share the ball.

    30u62vd.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,422 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    kmart6 wrote: »
    Would be a terrible move by the Lakers to go after Paul.

    They won’t, in good shape at this point


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    I don't see where the CP3 trade happens for the Lakers, zero assets, no space.

    I don't even think a 3rd team could get involved, they have no way to consume it unless they wait till closer to the deadline and give up a few of their 5-8m guys expecting that the roster can be rounded out further with buyouts like the Cavs completely overhauled the year of IT.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,422 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Adams / Gallo / Roberson / SGA / Paul not a bad core, probably makes the playoffs.

    If OKC really want to tank they should trade Paul to the Wizards for Wall and picks and hold the worst contract in the league while they do it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    The Heat can take him and he reportedly wants to go there.

    Re. The Lakers, they can’t do anything now, but they can post Dec. 15th. Now it’ll take a lot of moves before they even get to that point but I wouldn’t rule it out.

    Chris Paul does not want to be in OKC, he’ll be moved, and considering how young they have gotten I don’t think they’d want a plssed off Chris Paul around. I’d bet almost anything on this.

    Looking at it coldly, Russ is better and younger than Paul at this stage of their careers. It’s in theory a good move for Houston, but it depends on how they gel of course.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,422 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    It’s a good move for Hou, maximises their window. Harden can take plays off as a spot up shooter and let Westbrook gun away. Westbrook’s contract one year shorter too.

    Strictly speaking, Hou paid too much. But you can pay too much during your window to keep hopes of a championship alive, that’s okay.

    I really don’t see the Lakers doing anything to get Paul. LeBron will run the point in crunch time and Vogel will get a lot out of their ability to put good defensive lineups on the floor out of what they’ve got. I think they’re a good team, better than people who are fixated on them not getting Kawhi think. They’ll start well and won’t be looking for another major piece.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    It’s a good move for Hou, maximises their window. Harden can take plays off as a spot up shooter and let Westbrook gun away. Westbrook’s contract one year shorter too.

    Strictly speaking, Hou paid too much. But you can pay too much during your window to keep hopes of a championship alive, that’s okay.

    I really don’t see the Lakers doing anything to get Paul. LeBron will run the point in crunch time and Vogel will get a lot out of their ability to put good defensive lineups on the floor out of what they’ve got. I think they’re a good team, better than people who are fixated on them not getting Kawhi think. They’ll start well and won’t be looking for another major piece.

    They'll pick up some buy outs closer to the deadline though, some team that's envisaged to make the playoffs with a couple of decent Vets will bomb, buy out their large vet contracts and both LA teams will be vying for their services.

    I like the CP3 for Wall idea for OKC but Wizards probably don't do it, they're holding out hope he reclaims some of that ability because tbf he's a pass first PG so a little bit of reinvention and he could still be very useful albeit not 40m+ worth of use


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Think it's a necessary roll of the dice by Houston but just not one that's going to work out. Just don't think Westbrook's style of play allows for a championship winning team. He's too wasteful.

    Also would worry about them defensively. Harden's D was good last year but off the ball he's not the best, neither is Westbrook.

    Also just don't see Westbrook as a good fit for D'Antoni. He's enough of a creative type that the offense prefers.

    Be very interesting to see how it plays out but I think chances are it's not going to end well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,037 ✭✭✭✭Osmosis Jones


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    It’s a good move for Hou, maximises their window. Harden can take plays off as a spot up shooter and let Westbrook gun away.

    The bigger problem is what happens with Westbrook when Harden handles the ball, Harden and Paul could both be spot up shooters when the other handled, Westbrook can't shoot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,422 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    The bigger problem is what happens with Westbrook when Harden handles the ball, Harden and Paul could both be spot up shooters when the other handled, Westbrook can't shoot.

    It’s far from a perfect fit, that’s for sure. Paul is also a better defender, even now. But you’ve now got two guys in the back court who can win games by themselves. It’s on D’antoini to make it work. Unfortunately he may end up being a fall guy if it doesn’t work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,037 ✭✭✭✭Osmosis Jones


    I think the biggest shock in all of this is that Billy Donovan has somehow outlasted Russell Westbrook at OKC


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Nate Duncan (rightly) going hard on the criticism for Klutch/Morris after their handling of the move to the Spurs in his latest pod. Worth listening to.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    I think the biggest shock in all of this is that Billy Donovan has somehow outlasted Russell Westbrook at OKC

    Hadn’t actually thought about that, but yes it’s surprising.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    Nate Duncan (rightly) going hard on the criticism for Klutch/Morris after their handling of the move to the Spurs in his latest pod. Worth listening to.

    I see it from both sides. Reneging looks poor but I think its less to do with the extra 5m this year than a strategic move where his value increases proportionately next year when fewer high quality free agents are available.

    He mentioned hes been disappointed with the interest in him this year but with less big fish next year he may be more prized.

    Also @anyone has a market for most improved been released for next year.
    I can't seem to get sportsbet.au which is usually first to market outside of the US and they run PP & BF American sports now so usually it indicates what will appear here.


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