Brian Cowen unwell

Baggly · 09-07-2019 04:43PM

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

I am "over myself" - whatever that nonsensical piece of gibberish may mean.

I'm dying too - and so are you - and so is everyone on this planet. Biffo may be a bit nearer the terminus than you or I are - or think we are - but my comments on his cozy deal for Rody Molloy aren't really going to affect things very much.

Mod

Dont post in this thread again. Thanks.

RHJ · 09-07-2019 04:46PM

Hey Mod I thought personal attacks were against the rules or do those rules only apply to some? Are you going to take action on those who falsely accused me of bullying?

Baggly · 09-07-2019 04:48PM

RHJ wrote: »

Hey Mod I thought personal attacks were against the rules or do those rules only apply to some? Are you going to take action on those who falsely accused me of bullying?

Mod

If you have an issue, report the post. Dont drag this thread off topic again.

Working class heroes · 09-07-2019 04:55PM

Is there any actual news on how the man is doing?

spurshero · 09-07-2019 05:08PM

Working class heroes wrote: »

Is there any actual news on how the man is doing?

Supposedly on life support and if lives will
Be left vegetable like

ChikiChiki · 09-07-2019 05:10PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Laois_Man wrote: »

Lets put this straight - Ahern didn't do a runner because he saw the **** was going to hit the fan - he'd still be Taoiseach today if he could have managed to ride out the storm. He did a runner because coalition partners John Gormley and Mary Harney were looking like they were going to pull the plug on his government in the wake of his performance at the Mahon tribunal and Enda would have become Taoiseach three-years earlier if they had. He only went because he had no choice.

While I won't get into any personal criticism of Cowen - Lets not be over revisionistic. Because the Anglo Irish collapse was the largest individual bank collapse in the history of the world relative to the size of a country's economy. Yes most countries had banking issues, not least the UK with Northern Rock, Lloyds, HBOS etc - but a collapse of the enormous magnitude of Anglo wasn't simply inevitable!

Sense, glorious sense.

I really don't know whether to brace myself for the bitter jibes or the fawning revisionism in the coming weeks, should the talk of Cowen's health be accurate. Both are equally insufferable, and tend to drown-out the fair and sensible appraisals of Cowen's time as Minister for Finance and as Taoiseach.

Yes he was partly a victim of circumstance, he was also the architect of his own political downfall unlike any other political leader in the history of the State. He created the unique circumstances which led to him being crowned, by the Irish independent, the worst Taoiseach in history.

This observation is not intended to be personal. He was also an unlucky man, politically. In his personal life, he seems to have been blessed with a lovely family and I think their pain and suffering is an entirely different matter. Nobody really doubts the virtues of Cowen the private man.

Most sensible post of the thread.

AudreyHepburn · 09-07-2019 05:11PM

spurshero wrote: »

Supposedly on life support and if lives will
Be left vegetable like

Horrific - you’d have to be made of stone to think he deserves that or take this as an opportunity to tear into him.

I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy.

AudreyHepburn · 09-07-2019 05:17PM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Garret Fitzgerald was awful but he did deliver the Anglo Irish agreement with the most stubborn British PM of the twentieth century

Cowen achieved nothing bar making his party a quarter the size it was in the 2011 election

I never said he was perfect or that he didn’t make mistakes. But people are trying to turn him into some kind of despot who went out of his way to destroy the country which couldn’t be further than the truth.

He was handed a poisoned chalice which even the best politicians on the planet would have struggled with.

Cyclical Apocalypse · 09-07-2019 05:23PM

Unfortunately, it appears that the best his family can wish for now is for him to have a swift and painless death. Sometimes it's better that than to linger on in suffering.

09-07-2019 05:24PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

He was handed a poisoned chalice which even the best politicians on the planet would have struggled with.

Can you elaborate on the poisoned chalice?

Cowen was the Minister who created the biggest, pro-cyclical giveaway budgets in our history, and probably in contemporary European history.

It will be, quite appropriately, recorded that Cowen's budgets were fairly popular at the time. Most people tend not to refuse free money. But Cowen wasn't one of the crowd. He was given a position of leadership unlike any other.

I don't like talking his career down at this hour of his life. But if you do insist on offering such eyebrow-raising excuses then this is the inevitable result.

murpho999 · 09-07-2019 05:26PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Can you elaborate on the poisoned chalice?

Cowen was the Minister who created the biggest, pro-cyclical giveaway budgets in our history, and probably in contemporary European history.

I don't like talking his career down at this hour of his life. But if you do insist on offering such eyebrow-raising excuses then this is the inevitable result.

What has any of the above to do with his ill health?

His budgets were done at the time the economy was booming and it did not cause a global crisis.

People spending was also not his fault.

Governments and ministers are not always to blame.

AudreyHepburn · 09-07-2019 05:27PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Can you elaborate on the poisoned chalice?

Cowen was the Minister who created the biggest, pro-cyclical giveaway budgets in our history, and probably in contemporary European history.

I don't like talking his career down at this hour of his life. But if you do insist on offering such eyebrow-raising excuses then this is the inevitable result.

He certainly made mistakes but the economy here and globally was already on a downward spiral when he came to power. I don’t believe it could have been stopped nor that fixing it was ever going to be as simple as everything seems to think.

But as you say this is not the time to tear him apart or spout such bile as has been posted in the last few days.

09-07-2019 05:30PM

murpho999 wrote: »

What has any of the above to do with his ill health?

His budgets were done at the time the economy was booming and it did not cause a global crisis.

Im not referring to his ill health. I wish him the best, sincerely.

I'm referring to a claim that Cowen inherited a poisoned chalice. Forgive the metaphor, but as Minister for Finance (probably the most notorious minister ever to occupy that office) he was the one who filled his own chalice.

Yer Da sells Avon · 09-07-2019 05:33PM

spurshero wrote: »

Supposedly on life support and if lives will
Be left vegetable like

I remember hearing similar rumours about Alex Ferguson when he suffered a brain haemorrhage last year.

09-07-2019 05:42PM

I feel really sad for him and his family

I can't imagine.

ToddyDoody · 09-07-2019 05:43PM

He did try and take responsibility for all that had gone down.

From wikipedia:

'Approval ratings

Although Cowen's satisfaction rating had sunk to 18% in Ireland, by August 2010, he was listed as one of the top ten leaders in the world by Newsweek magazine, which praised his handling of the Irish economy. While The Wall Street Journal stated that "Cowen has presided over the worst economic crisis in modern times",[130] Newsweek ranked him fifth in the world after David Cameron, Mohamed Nasheed, Nicolas Sarkozy, and Wen Jiabao.'

Face it, we were irresponsible... all of us.

Sending thoughts and prayers at this time.

davycc · 09-07-2019 05:52PM

Hope he pulls through fine

09-07-2019 05:56PM

ToddyDoody wrote: »

Face it, we were irresponsible... all of us.

Sending thoughts and prayers at this time.

If there wasn't such an ill man at the centre of this, I reckon I'd blow a fuse here.

We were not all responsible. I wasn't long out of college when the economy collapsed. Those of is who made our own financial mistakes did so on a once-off basis. It was the banks and the Government who made a wholesale mistake, millions of times over, with some of the best economic advice money can buy.

I keep saying this, but it's true, nobody wants to pile on the attack of Cowen's political career right now

But for Jaysis sake would people give-over with the frankly, stupid excuses and counter-narratives.

PukkaStukka · 09-07-2019 06:00PM

ToddyDoody wrote: »

Face it, we were irresponsible... all of us.

I'd like to know your basis for that assumption because neither I nor anyone I know borrowed to the extent that the few did who pulled those banks down and the rest of us with it. A ridiculous statement

PukkaStukka · 09-07-2019 06:03PM

PS I've no axe to grind with Mr Cowen because he inherited the mess of his predecessors. I hope he pulls through

theguzman · 09-07-2019 06:10PM

PukkaStukka wrote: »

PS I've no axe to grind with Mr Cowen because he inherited the mess of his predecessors. I hope he pulls through

Exactly Bertie Ahern was the real tramp in everything, Biff was a drunken blubbering fool, there was far worse than him within the FF party many of whom still exist. He is someones loved one, not a fan of his politics or his legacy but I do empathise from a human standpoint.

Edgware · 09-07-2019 06:17PM

Cyclical Apocalypse wrote: »

Unfortunately, it appears that the best his family can wish for now is for him to have a swift and painless death. Sometimes it's better that than to linger on in suffering.

Thank for that expert opinion. Its great to have someone available with such precise knowledge. Was it Yale you went to? They make very good keys

Baggly · 09-07-2019 06:20PM

Mod

There are a few people who aren't getting the message regarding the tone of this thread. It's closed while I get a second mod opinion.

Baggly · 09-07-2019 10:49PM

Mod

Cards have been handed out for uncivil posting and ignoring mod instruction. Stop it on both counts.

This is AH. If you want a serious chat about Brian Cowan legacy go to CA. Show some respect for an ill man here. If you cant do that, please don't post.

Thanks.

Sleeper12 · 09-07-2019 11:32PM

I'm genuinely surprised at the amount of people who weren't taught basic manners and respect growing up.

My thoughts are with Brian's family and friends. Forgetting about politics, he always came across as a nice man to me.

LillySV · 09-07-2019 11:50PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Sense, glorious sense.

I really don't know whether to brace myself for the bitter jibes or the fawning revisionism in the coming weeks, should the talk of Cowen's health be accurate. Both are equally insufferable, and tend to drown-out the fair and sensible appraisals of Cowen's time as Minister for Finance and as Taoiseach.

Yes he was partly a victim of circumstance, he was also the architect of his own political downfall unlike any other political leader in the history of the State. He created the unique circumstances which led to him being crowned, by the Irish independent, the worst Taoiseach in history.

This observation is not intended to be personal. He was also an unlucky man, politically. In his personal life, he seems to have been blessed with a lovely family and I think their pain and suffering is an entirely different matter. Nobody really doubts the virtues of Cowen the private man.

Your quoting the indo for crowning him worst Taoiseach!!! Are ya serious !? Denis o Briens number 1 propaganda tool! And a pure Fianna Gail paper!!! The worst party for the middle man ever... Ireland is getting destroyed at moment.... housing fuct, no one can afford one../.hse falling apart ... all the towns and villages outside of Dublin left to fall apart.... current govt doesn’t care as long as Dublin ok .... countries ruined and can’t blame all the young people leaving to go to other countries

Tokyo · 10-07-2019 01:14AM

Moved from AH > CA.

Eric Cartman · 10-07-2019 01:18AM

Can i ask the people who are berating the man over the financial crisis, How did Brian influence that it also occured in the UK, US and most of the western world, was the man from offally who liked a few drinks the financial mastermind of the western world.

My thoughts to his family, FG following his plan has restored ireland to one of the richest countries in the world

Gael23 · 10-07-2019 08:15AM

Brian Cowen was instructed many times to do something in order to stop people buying houses. Of course he didn’t do this because it was in Fianna Fails interests not to.

Sleeper12 · 10-07-2019 08:25AM

Gael23 wrote: »

Brian Cowen was instructed many times to do something in order to stop people buying houses. Of course he didn’t do this because it was in Fianna Fails interests not to.

This is not true.

I'm unfollowing this thread now because I'm finding it difficult not to challenge the nonsense posted about Brian on many posts. He played a roll in the leadup to the world banking crash We left ourselves wide open. I find it amazing that Brian has grown into a bigger monster year on year in some peoples minds over the last 10 years or so. People should forget about what they think they remember & go back & read up on the whole saga.

Brian Cowen unwell

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