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AMD Zen Discussion Thread

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    #1202
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    .G. wrote: »
    Possible Euro prices for Ryzen 3000

    https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/ryzen-3000-processors-are-getting-listed-ryzen-9-3900x-for-%E2%82%AC-550.html

    Jaysus.
    I wonder if I could take a holiday to NYC & buy a 3700X then (~€300 with 4% tax)...


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    #1203
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    Hmmm, maybe I wasn't paying enough attention but not hugely wowed by those prices. That would make the 3600X €90 more expensive than the 2600X. I had planned swapping from 9600K/Z390 to 3700X but I think I'll wait it out for a 2nd hand 8700K or 9700K instead.

    Review here of 3600 on an X470.


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    #1204
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    sugarman wrote: »
    That's a bit disappointing, I've been holding off the last 6 months for a 3600 but if prices are accurate there's not much value to be had over a 2600 that's going €100 cheaper at the moment.

    These prices aren't verified. Wait until they are before the doom and gloom.


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    #1205
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    sugarman wrote: »
    That's a bit disappointing, I've been holding off the last 6 months for a 3600 but if prices are accurate there's not much value to be had over a 2600 that's going €100 cheaper at the moment.

    ~20% IPC improvements at the same clock speeds from my reading of the review making for a faster chip.


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    #1206
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    But while that's obviously to be expected, the big price hike though isn't. We'll just have to wait and see what actual retail prices are in the EU on launch, but if those prices are accurate they're not great value compared to Ryzen 2x00 series CPUs.


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    #1207
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    On the other hand I'm really interested to see what the 3400G Pro can offer. Would love to build a tiny mini ITX build that packs a bit of power, mostly an Overwatch player so it'd be perfect for LANs and whatnot.

    The Asrock DeskMini A300 is amazing, though the chipset won't support the Ryzen 2 APU's, so hopefully they release an updated version.

    Asrock-DeskMini-A300-04_cr.jpg


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    #1208
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,983 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    TerrorFirmer wrote: »
    On the other hand I'm really interested to see what the 3400G Pro can offer. Would love to build a tiny mini ITX build that packs a bit of power, mostly an Overwatch player so it'd be perfect for LANs and whatnot.

    The Asrock DeskMini A300 is amazing, though the chipset won't support the Ryzen 2 APU's, so hopefully they release an updated version.

    Are they not just Zen+ Variants on the current APU's? Meaning 5-10% performance improvements.


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    #1209
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,940 ✭✭✭circadian


    First 3600 review is out, in Spanish so you'll need to translate. Look at those benches on early drivers.

    https://elchapuzasinformatico.com/2019/06/amd-ryzen-5-3600-x470-review/#equipo-de-pruebas


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    #1210
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    circadian wrote: »
    First 3600 review is out, in Spanish so you'll need to translate. Look at those benches on early drivers.

    https://elchapuzasinformatico.com/2019/06/amd-ryzen-5-3600-x470-review/#equipo-de-pruebas

    I don't think drivers are a thing for cpu's. As long as windows knows how to make use of them properly which I'm pretty sure it does these days.

    Still amazing benchmarks for a €200 cpu. The new budget king.


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    #1211
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    BloodBath wrote: »
    I don't think drivers are a thing for cpu's. As long as windows knows how to make use of them properly which I'm pretty sure it does these days.

    Still amazing benchmarks for a €200 cpu. The new budget king.

    Be more cpu specific compiler optimizations and the odd bit of hand cranked vectorization code for more established chips giving them an edge against newcomers.


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    #1212
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    Wonder would using an x470 board as opposed to an x570 have held it back any, either way, super impressive stuff and I can't wait to see the higher end stuff


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    #1213
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    AFAIK the X570 have a higher RAM overclock ceiling - but you don't want to go over 3600/3733 MHz or so anyway.

    cx92rd6zpy531.png


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    #1214
    GHOST MGG
    Registered Users Posts: 940 ✭✭✭GHOST MGG


    amazon uk have the msi godlike x570 up for 777.77 pounds...jesus they are taking this pricing a bit far


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    #1215
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users Posts: 27,932 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    GHOST MGG wrote: »
    amazon uk have the msi godlike x570 up for 777.77 pounds...jesus they are taking this pricing a bit far

    Sounds like a placeholder price.


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    #1216
    Shiminay
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    There seem to be a few articles around suggesting that the prices will be hefty, maybe not 777.77 hefty (seems to be an attempt to join in on the 7/7 release day marketing).

    I'm thinking I'm gonna stick with the x470 for my upcoming build, I'm on a budget! :)


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    #1217
    wotzgoingon
    Registered Users Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon


    I seen websites saying god like will be close to 800 dollars. No body needs those really high end boards unless they are extreme overclocking with LN2.


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    #1218
    deceit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭deceit


    I'm tempted to upgrade one of my setups with the 3950x.
    I haven't been following news carefully. Would I require a specific board for this or can I just use my x370 board?
    If I can get away with my current board I would upgrade my 1800x to it, if it requires a new board I might get rid of my 1950x and board then get one.


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    #1219
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    deceit wrote: »
    I'm tempted to upgrade one of my setups with the 3950x.
    I haven't been following news carefully. Would I require a specific board for this or can I just use my x370 board?
    If I can get away with my current board I would upgrade my 1800x to it, if it requires a new board I might get rid of my 1950x and board then get one.

    There's no guarantee that X370 motherboards will get BIOS update for Zen 2 - but I'd upgrade the motherboard anyway, as *most* X370 boards didn't have the build/VRM-quality for a 16-core CPU.


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    #1220
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    Talk of the devil, Cr1318 released his newest VRM tier list.


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    #1221
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,983 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    K.O.Kiki wrote: »
    There's no guarantee that X370 motherboards will get BIOS update for Zen 2 - but I'd upgrade the motherboard anyway, as *most* X370 boards didn't have the build/VRM-quality for a 16-core CPU.

    Unless your planning for a huge all core overclock, I don't see why older boards would struggle. And the chips should do quite well at OC'ing themselves for single core tasks.


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    #1222
    deceit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭deceit


    Mine is the ROG Crosshair VI Hero or extreme (Not sure which as its in Ireland / I live in Germany) and I haven't overclocked my cpu's in ages so overclocking wouldn't be a concern.
    I'm not pushed on the x570 boards as none I've seen so far look nice and they have that silly chipset fan. I'm happy enough to deal without pcie 4 to get rid of the fan.
    Edit:
    Nevermind, found this which I think would get me to upgrade as looks nice and especially with 10gb onboard also, I hate the 2.5gb and 5gb that the other systems have, makes them seem half assed and a 10gb port on a switch would feel wasted with them.
    https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-XTREME-rev-10#kf


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    #1223
    .G.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,415 ✭✭✭.G.


    Really eager to see the pricing and performance of all this. Will be upgrading my sons PC for sure but may well upgrade from my own 6700k too.


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    #1224
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    Unless your planning for a huge all core overclock, I don't see why older boards would struggle. And the chips should do quite well at OC'ing themselves for single core tasks.

    A large number of vendors didn't have big confidence in AMD & didn't over-engineer their boards for anything further than 8 cores.


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    #1225
    wotzgoingon
    Registered Users Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon


    Did this guy just leak that the Zen 2 will overclock up to 4.75GHz out of the box. Just plug and play if you have a decent motherboard.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prAaADB9Kck


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    #1226
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    K.O.Kiki wrote: »
    A large number of vendors didn't have big confidence in AMD & didn't over-engineer their boards for anything further than 8 cores.

    Realistically, how many people are aiming for high OC on any Ryzen beyond 8 cores on a consumer level.

    I have Intel because I've a 144hz monitor where it does make a difference, but from a consumer gaming POV, for 95% of people it makes no sense to not get a cheap Ryzen and spend the rest on the GPU.

    Way too many people are invested in high framerates, OC'ing potential, and on-paper performance when it doesn't make a damn difference to their setup.

    Amount of times I get questions like "can this run fortnite at 300fps" or whatever.


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    #1227
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    Being able to run games at high frame rates (e.g. competitive shooters) is actually a reasonable request, and completely CPU bottlenecked - think back to the days of 640x480 CS 1.6 & Q3.


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    #1228
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    It is, but not when the majority of people demanding 300fps are running bog standard 60hz modern monitors.

    I get kids asking if a machine can run Fortnite at 300fps. Why? What benefit do you get from running Fortnite at 300fps on an €80 monitor? Different story back in the day of CRT with up to 120hz.

    Realistically, these requests are not from pro-players.

    Same story with the ongoing Intel v AMD debate. Still get people saying "I want Intel because they're better for gaming" when that fact does not matter a jot in 2019 unless you're seeking maximum frames on a >60hz monitor.

    Again, I have 9600K@4.8 because I've a 144hz monitor and its yards ahead of any current Ryzen CPU.

    My 2nd machine is a 2600X purely because it's a 60hz monitor and it's way better value, rathered to spend the cash on a GPU.


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    #1229
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,983 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    deceit wrote: »
    Nevermind, found this which I think would get me to upgrade as looks nice and especially with 10gb onboard also, I hate the 2.5gb and 5gb that the other systems have, makes them seem half assed and a 10gb port on a switch would feel wasted with them.
    https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-XTREME-rev-10#kf

    In general, networking is dropping the 1 gig to 10 gig copper jump, its been around for a while and its uptake has been pretty limited. Its hasn't gotten widespread adoption in the consumer market, the distances are too short for the quality and type of the cable installations that you would normally see in most houses so it creates a lot of support problems. Plus the cost of the cards and switches are just too high for the perceived benefit(for most people, there is none).

    You are going to see far more 2.5/5 devices coming in for switching in the next few years, in terms of switches, *wireless and network cards. It makes far more sense, they check the line, determine the best speed based on the quality and distance and then use it at a speed that works.

    *Wifi6 AP's can use it to scale past 1gig, with POE and a single cable.
    K.O.Kiki wrote: »
    A large number of vendors didn't have big confidence in AMD & didn't over-engineer their boards for anything further than 8 cores.

    Vendors built their boards to the AM4 specification. All new ryzen processors meet that specification, 7nm and the IO die brought a significant power and thermal drop meaning 16 cores could go into the socket at stock speeds.

    The PC building community for the last few years has been hung up on VRM's, building tier lists and pushing people to buy the most phases, to not pick other boards based on what VRM they have. Its no longer the case where you can pick up a processor and give it a 25-30% overclock out of the box with ease(eg:2500k). VRM's are important then because your slamming the power and thermal envelope for the socket and board. In the meantime, the processors and platforms have been oc'ing themselves, especially on 1 or 2 cores, which for the vast majority of workloads is exactly what you want.

    And most of those people will never touch the bios, never overclock. And even those that do, the vast majority of them will never need the VRM's of these mid to top end boards. Those things are set up for open loop water coolers or dry ICE extreme OC'ing.


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    #1230
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    My current plan is a 3600x on a decent b450 board. I reckon that'll give me all the OC room I need for 6c12t. I'll throw my current gtx 1070 into it with a decent PSU, anew AIO and some new ram and I reckon I'll be sorted for several years for very little money. Maybe upgrade the GPU towards the end of this year if I feel its needed, but I don't think I will need to.

    Far more pressing concerns for me right now are upgrading to 144hz from 60hz for eSports titles.


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    #1231
    z0oT
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭z0oT


    A 3700X and an ITX board will be my next setup I think. At 65W it should be a much better CPU for an ITX system than my current 6700k. X570, B550 or X470 is the only thing I'm wondering about.

    I would ideally like the PCIe 4.0 speeds on the lanes connected to the CPU at least. My system will be a single M.2 and a single SATA SSD so the lanes on the chipset wouldn't worry me as long as I've got a single SATA 3 port which all boards have.

    There's been murmers of PCIe 4.0 on the older X470 boards, I wonder how that'll pan out.
    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    And most of those people will never touch the bios, never overclock. And even those that do, the vast majority of them will never need the VRM's of these mid to top end boards. Those things are set up for open loop water coolers or dry ICE extreme OC'ing.
    I used to overclock quite a bit. I had a Q9450 which I ran at 4GHz, a Phenom II X4 955 again at 4GHz, and an FX-8350 at 5GHz, managed 5.3GHz out of it at one stage too.

    Nowadays I can't be bothered anymore, I'm more interested in stability. My 3 year old 6700k has sat at stock with most of the settings at "Auto" ever since I bought it as a result.

    To be honest, the performance of modern day stuff (Intel or AMD) at stock is just so good. Those really high turbo speeds (5GHz on the 9900k for example) just totally remove the need to overclock at all IMO.


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