If the Green Party got into government are they mad

Macha

cutelad wrote: »

We have airports outside Dublin btw. I leave Kerry or Cork and can be in facility by 11 am.
You guys want us all live in cities. How about getting big companies relocate to the west with big tax breaks. Take all traffic out of major urban areas.
Read my replies some solutions given, only difference is taxing the poor is not my solution like the Dublin Green hippies

Would that be the same Cork airport that is in serious debt and the same Kerry airport that receives huge amounts of taxpayers money to stay open?

The Dublin hippies are subsiding your air travel.

Mancomb Seepgood

cutelad wrote: »

We have airports outside Dublin btw. I leave Kerry or Cork and can be in facility by 11 am.
You guys want us all live in cities. How about getting big companies relocate to the west with big tax breaks. Take all traffic out of major urban areas.
Read my replies some solutions given, only difference is taxing the poor is not my solution like the Dublin Green hippies

The poor fly from Kerry to London regularly for work?

Every choice a person makes in life comes with consequences.A person living in Kerry will have higher transport costs but a lower cost of living in other respects, particularly housing.A "Dublin green hippy" will have lower transport costs (although public transport is far from free) but is paying through the nose for rent/mortgage etc.

A sense of perspective is needed,rather than a sense of entitlement.

Macha

cutelad wrote: »

Regional airports are vital to local economies. Tourism and connectivity

Sure, tourism and connectivity . Does it have to be by airplane? No.

Ireland's train network is SMALLER than it was in the 1930s.

Shefwedfan

cutelad wrote: »

We have airports outside Dublin btw. I leave Kerry or Cork and can be in facility by 11 am.
You guys want us all live in cities. How about getting big companies relocate to the west with big tax breaks. Take all traffic out of major urban areas.
Read my replies some solutions given, only difference is taxing the poor is not my solution like the Dublin Green hippies

I have posted this I dont know how many times....


Companies would move out tomorrow but unfortuneatly people prefer to sit in cars and drive into city centre's than work outside. You had threads on this forum complaining they had to commute into Dublin but when asked why theywouldn't work local, answer was they "wanted Dublin wages".....


Dunnes Stores for example built an office in Blanchardstown, hardly in middle of nowhere and the staff would not move out and they had to renovate office in city centre


The government have tried numerous times to move staff out of city centre and they strike.....


This has nothing to do with FF/FG/Greens etc this is the Irish workers decisions.....

abcabc123123

Macha wrote: »

Yup. You don't even pay VAT on your airline ticket but you do on train tickets, bus tickets etc.

That's the power of the airline lobby. Utter madness.

Their time will come. The tourism industry has been seen as a golden goose for too long but that's changing now, in Europe anyway.

GreeBo

cutelad wrote: »

We have airports outside Dublin btw. I leave Kerry or Cork and can be in facility by 11 am.
You guys want us all live in cities. How about getting big companies relocate to the west with big tax breaks. Take all traffic out of major urban areas.
Read my replies some solutions given, only difference is taxing the poor is not my solution like the Dublin Green hippies

I know there are airports outside of Dublin....you were the one who brought up Dublin.

"Us guys" want people who need to be in cities to live near cities.
Mad.

I'm confused as to how big companies relocating in the west will help you flying to London. At a minimum, London is east.

As for taxing the poor...not may poor people fly 20 times a year.
They will be taxing the large polluters, the people who pollute by taking 20 flights a year.

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Companies love spending millions flying people around the World for a "jolly":P

I keep mentioning it but the amount of "pub talk" comments on here is unbelieveable. Do people actually believe this stuff? we have wipers which can't be used because people are running out of fuel....the convertion of combustion to electric compared to the horse & cart.

Now we have companies, who fire people at the drop of a hat to savea few quid, sending people around the World just so they can go on the beer :p

I work in a big company, we are international and yes we have to fly. It could take me 2 months to get approval and it goes around every department before approved. We are given every online tool so we don't have to fly. It was in the early 2000's since I seen any sort of jolly in our industry. Unless you count going for a few beers in Basingstock as a jolly :-)

You clearly don't know sales people so. In many not all companies sales people expense everything and justify it by saying well sure I had to close an x million deal

Ken Tucky

Macha wrote: »

We've run out of time for slow, gradual change. UN climate scientists say we have 10 years left to prevent the worst of climate breakdown but it's already inevitable that our children will live on an irreversibly altered planet.

If you're not panicking about the climate crisis, you're not paying attention.

President Trump isn't panicking, the countries in Asia are not panicking, China are talking about becoming interested and the Russians are, well interested in something else.

No point of the ordinary people here panicking. Yes lets get electric cars, insulate our houses, get rid of all the cows and walk to work. It wont be us that saves the world!! Eamonn Ryan might though;)

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You clearly don't know sales people so. In many not all companies sales people expense everything and justify it by saying well sure I had to close an x million deal

I work in sales.....probably in one of those companies you are thinking about :P:P:P

Yes we can fly, but as above the sign off process is long and checked at every level


You are watching Wolf of Wall Street too much

GreeBo

Ken Tucky wrote: »

President Trump isn't panicking, the countries in Asia are not panicking, China are talking about becoming interested and the Russians are, well interested in something else.

No point of the ordinary people here panicking. Yes lets get electric cars, insulate our houses, get rid of all the cows and walk to work. It wont be us that saves the world!! Eamonn Ryan might though;)

Forget about saving the world, do it because it will save you money in the long term.

Shefwedfan

Ken Tucky wrote: »

President Trump isn't panicking, the countries in Asia are not panicking, China are talking about becoming interested and the Russians are, well interested in something else.

No point of the ordinary people here panicking. Yes lets get electric cars, insulate our houses, get rid of all the cows and walk to work. It wont be us that saves the world!! Eamonn Ryan might though;)

From my own point of view


Green Party, FF, FG, Labour whoever has been in power I always invest in my house car.


So last house I stripped to the bare walls and done up, insulated and new electric and heating system etc. I reduced my heating bill and electricity by over half


Sold house and bought new one, same job, at the moment I can flick on heating and the house is heated very quickly, next investment is Solar PV and then heat pump as I have oil currently.....as the plan is to keep house long term I want to reduce my heating bill by at least 50%

I moved to electric car because I had 2 diesels and it cost over 3k per year to keep on road. One electric and I went from 1600 per year in A6 to just over 300 in electric per year. Nice saving plus then service and tax was reduced.


If I could I would swap both cars to electric now but a large SUV type thing not available yet.....

Seanachai

I think they're rollover merchants, they posture about being about the big issues, but they'll settle for cycle lanes and pedestrianised streets. I could see the next gov being FG\Greens, I think it's about 7\1 with PP at the moment.

Shefwedfan

Seanachai wrote: »

I think they're rollover merchants, they posture about being about the big issues, but they'll settle for cycle lanes and pedestrianised streets. I could see the next gov being FG\Greens, I think it's about 7\1 with PP at the moment.

FG are useless....they have done nothing.


I hope they get kicked to touch. Greens and FF, some people will cringe at that but what else is around?

SF are useless, they want everyone on the dole and giving them money for nothing
FG have spent how many year going from one disaster to another and not resolving any of them
Labour....useless

People before Profit?? really....they wanted to build a housing estate in the only green part of D15 and when asked about roads/sweage/school etc they had no idea.....

Ken Tucky

GreeBo wrote: »

Forget about saving the world, do it because it will save you money in the long term.

I dont have the money to do it...the same as most people. But i will have to pay for it regardless. I am not really complaining but what we do as people will be futile in global terms. That is not a reason not to do anything, but slaughtering people financially is unfair.
Most of us do their bit but life has to be lived also.

GreeBo

Ken Tucky wrote: »

I dont have the money to do it...the same as most people. But i will have to pay for it regardless. I am not really complaining but what we do as people will be futile in global terms. That is not a reason not to do anything, but slaughtering people financially is unfair.
Most of us do their bit but life has to be lived also.

You don't have the money to save money?
Invest in your own future.


How is saving the planet "unfair"?

And saying that our efforts are futile is exactly what leads to no one doing anything.

blanch152

cutelad wrote: »

We have airports outside Dublin btw. I leave Kerry or Cork and can be in facility by 11 am.
You guys want us all live in cities. How about getting big companies relocate to the west with big tax breaks. Take all traffic out of major urban areas.
Read my replies some solutions given, only difference is taxing the poor is not my solution like the Dublin Green hippies

Yes, living in cities is what is needed.

It isn't just about jobs, it is about the costs of service delivery, whether that is postal services, health services, educational services, or just the cost of delivering oil to remote areas. They all cost a lot more financially and environmentally when delivered to rural areas.

There is an imbalance in development in Ireland - we have one major city that is balanced by one-off housing. The solution isn't to provide more one-off housing, neither is it further development in Dublin. Rather, it is the development of Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford and perhaps Sligo that is the answer.

So no more Fruit of the Loom in Gweedore, or factories on Achill Island, not even development in Killorglin or Clifden. Instead, our focus must be on banning one-off housing, managing the growth of Dublin upwards rather than outwards and concentrating on the other cities as the future engines for growth. The opportunity is there to develop places like Limerick in an environmentally sustainable way e.g. build out along the existing rail lines.

Shefwedfan

Ken Tucky wrote: »

I dont have the money to do it...the same as most people. But i will have to pay for it regardless. I am not really complaining but what we do as people will be futile in global terms. That is not a reason not to do anything, but slaughtering people financially is unfair.
Most of us do their bit but life has to be lived also.

A couple of rolls of insulation for the attic would cost less than a night out on beer


Loads of cheap bit you can do around a house without spending a fortune to save money. Google and youtube. Even with gas/oil boilers you can stick in device to remove the sludge going around the system which will reduce the amount of fuel required to heat the water....100 quid or the device and a plumber will install for a few quid, easy job....


If you want to go bigger they have home improvement loans at cheaper rates, the savings should pay that off while incresing the value of house


You can spend thousands but you can also do loads of little jobs and they have a cumulative build up to reduce cost....blaming a potitical party is not the answer.....

blanch152

Ken Tucky wrote: »

I dont have the money to do it...the same as most people. But i will have to pay for it regardless. I am not really complaining but what we do as people will be futile in global terms. That is not a reason not to do anything, but slaughtering people financially is unfair.
Most of us do their bit but life has to be lived also.

We have taxes for the greater good of providing a social safety net to the poor.

A carbon tax for the greater good of making sure there is a planet to live on is a no-brainer by comparison.

Shefwedfan

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, living in cities is what is needed.

It isn't just about jobs, it is about the costs of service delivery, whether that is postal services, health services, educational services, or just the cost of delivering oil to remote areas. They all cost a lot more financially and environmentally when delivered to rural areas.

There is an imbalance in development in Ireland - we have one major city that is balanced by one-off housing. The solution isn't to provide more one-off housing, neither is it further development in Dublin. Rather, it is the development of Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford and perhaps Sligo that is the answer.

So no more Fruit of the Loom in Gweedore, or factories on Achill Island, not even development in Killorglin or Clifden. Instead, our focus must be on banning one-off housing, managing the growth of Dublin upwards rather than outwards and concentrating on the other cities as the future engines for growth. The opportunity is there to develop places like Limerick in an environmentally sustainable way e.g. build out along the existing rail lines.

Limerick and Sligo are gone....no point wasting time on them


Plenty other options....


In reality Sligo is too far in the middle of nowhere. It has no real links to major trasnport out of Ireland, even the road is full of sign of poor dead people because it is a disaster....


Limerick is a good option but will people really move from Dublin to Limerick? I doubt it.



Waterford/Wexford etc are all good viable options.

The Specialist

GreeBo wrote: »

You don't have the money to save money?
Invest in your own future.


How is saving the planet "unfair"?

And saying that our efforts are futile is exactly what leads to no one doing anything.

It is extremely futile and if you can't see that you'd want to take your eco friendly glasses off. The worlds top polluters will continue without a care in the world - we are insignificant on a global scale and it does not matter what we do here or how high the carbon taxes and all this other nonsense goes. It is not going to make any impact on a global level.

Can you honestly say with a straight face that the likes of India, US, China are going to look at us whipping ourselves with ridiculous carbon taxes, driving around in dinky cars powered by batteries and say "you know what guys, we need to change as well!"? It's a fever dream for the environmentalists - the reality is a much different story.

Ken Tucky

GreeBo wrote: »

You don't have the money to save money?
Invest in your own future.


How is saving the planet "unfair"?

And saying that our efforts are futile is exactly what leads to no one doing anything.

My mother just got her house insulated and other works done. Total cost €75.000. My remaining mortgage is over twice that amount.
No i dont have money to save money like that. It would be great if i did.

I never said saving the planet is unfair. Read my post again.

I also said we all do a bit, but no matter what we do will not make any difference in global terms. Not a reason to do nothing, i agree.

Just as well there is no carbon footprint replying to you:D

Im out...

Shefwedfan

Ken Tucky wrote: »

My mother just got her house insulated and other works done. Total cost €75.000. My remaining mortgage is over twice that amount.
No i dont have money to save money like that. It would be great if i did.

I never said saving the planet is unfair. Read my post again.

I also said we all do a bit, but no matter what we do will not make any difference in global terms. Not a reason to do nothing, i agree.

Just as well there is no carbon footprint replying to you:D

Im out...

What did she get done for 75k?

GreeBo

The Specialist wrote: »

It is extremely futile and if you can't see that you'd want to take your eco friendly glasses off. The worlds top polluters will continue without a care in the world - we are insignificant on a global scale and it does not matter what we do here or how high the carbon taxes and all this other nonsense goes. It is not going to make any impact on a global level.

Can you honestly say with a straight face that the likes of India, US, China are going to look at us whipping ourselves with ridiculous carbon taxes, driving around in dinky cars powered by batteries and say "you know what guys, we need to change as well!"? It's a fever dream for the environmentalists - the reality is a much different story.

If we could burn some of the strawmen raised on this thread we could fuel the planet for decades.

Who said anything about other countries looking at us? They will do it because they live on the same planet that we do.
Have you been to China lately? The old air is a little chewy for my tastes.

"dinky cars" tells me all I need to know about the basis for your arguments.

Ken Tucky wrote: »

My mother just got her house insulated and other works done. Total cost €75.000. My remaining mortgage is over twice that amount.
No i dont have money to save money like that. It would be great if i did.

I never said saving the planet is unfair. Read my post again.

I also said we all do a bit, but no matter what we do will not make any difference in global terms. Not a reason to do nothing, i agree.

Just as well there is no carbon footprint replying to you:D

Im out...

Its not do nothing or spend 75K. There are a wealth of options in between.

BarryD2

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, living in cities is what is needed.

It isn't just about jobs, it is about the costs of service delivery, whether that is postal services, health services, educational services, or just the cost of delivering oil to remote areas. They all cost a lot more financially and environmentally when delivered to rural areas.

So what's your vision then for rural Ireland? If you don't have people living and working in these areas, then there'll be no services or infrastructure when the people in the cities want to take a break from the urban grind. Nature takes over very quickly when land isn't managed and to manage land requires people. People need services and a means to live. How do you propose to feed the multitudes living in the cities?

Ken Tucky

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What did she get done for 75k?

Last answer, im just going to lurk after this one.

She got the whole house wrapped including extension.
New windows in the back of the house.
New boiler and attic totally redone.

Amazing job, its on the disability grant?!! Will make such a difference to her during winter.

I got the figure from my brother who is in the trade. I want it done but cant afford it!

The Specialist

GreeBo wrote: »

If we could burn some of the strawmen raised on this thread we could fuel the planet for decades.

Who said anything about other countries looking at us? They will do it because they live on the same planet that we do.
Have you been to China lately? The old air is a little chewy for my tastes.

"dinky cars" tells me all I need to know about the basis for your arguments.

You are definitely smoking something if you think those countries are going to do a 180 and start caring about the planet - climate hysteria is probably lower on their list of "to do" than human rights in some cases. You are delusional if you think anybody can force those countries in to climate action - they don't care.

BarryD2

GreeBo wrote: »

Its not do nothing or spend 75K. There are a wealth of options in between.

There's a cost/ benefit graph. I'd venture that the amount of housing stock now with no basic insulation at all is very small.

Take our house, all the basics covered: attic insulation, cylinder insulation, cavity & floor insulation in extension, double glazed windows through, stoves not open fireplaces. We currently spend about €1000 annually for space heating (mostly smokeless coal and anthracite) plus I bend my back to cut firewood.

I could probably reduce our fuel use a little by having the whole house clad in external insulation and triple or quadruple glazing windows and so on. But the costs of doing so would far outweigh the small gains we'd make as we've already done the basic steps that have the most effect - you're just chasing diminishing returns after a certain point.

Slapping hefty carbon taxes onto coal is not going to make us burn less coal, it'll just make us pay more. And that more will probably go to build more industrial wind farms that'll be imposed on the landscape around us.

hots

Ken Tucky wrote: »

Last answer, im just going to lurk after this one.

She got the whole house wrapped including extension.
New windows in the back of the house.
New boiler and attic totally redone.

Amazing job, its on the disability grant?!! Will make such a difference to her during winter.

I got the figure from my brother who is in the trade. I want it done but cant afford it!

She must live in a palace, that's a phenomenal amount!

GreeBo

BarryD2 wrote: »

So what's your vision then for rural Ireland? If you don't have people living and working in these areas, then there'll be no services or infrastructure when the people in the cities want to take a break from the urban grind. Nature takes over very quickly when land isn't managed and to manage land requires people. People need services and a means to live. How do you propose to feed the multitudes living in the cities?

You can have people living in rural areas, but they will be living a rural lifestyle.
Not commuting 40miles to work every day.

You have the required services locally, just like we did for most of human existence.

GreeBo

BarryD2 wrote: »

Slapping hefty carbon taxes onto coal is not going to make us burn less coal, it'll just make us pay more. And that more will probably go to build more industrial wind farms that'll be imposed on the landscape around us.

I'd take more wind/solar farms over more pollution in a heartbeat...wouldn't you?

Whats your alternative?