Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

martingriff · 20-06-2019 07:27AM

pjohnson wrote: »

But the authorities will do nothing.

So leave it to an uncontrolled mob then? What if some "concerned" person decides to act on one of these and attack innocents. Who would you blame then

20-06-2019 07:28AM

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Wasn't Robert Houlihan's killer given a new identity and moved to the UK when he was released?
Same as James Bolger's killers.
I wonder could this be a possibility for these 2 animals when they leave detention.

As another poster pointed out he was not given a new identity, he just moved to the UK

Interesting how you don't use his name (Wayne O'Donoghue) though.

Is it because after 14 or 15 years it's not a name that is quick to recall even though back in 2006 you would have had it instantly ?

That's where I don't see the value in naming theses guys, in 15 years time will their names will not be as quick to be remembered as if they were available today.

As for the James Bolger killer Thompson.
He has not come to the police attention since his release.
He could be that 30 something year old English guy living at the end of your road.

AudreyHepburn · 20-06-2019 07:29AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Absolutely the two boys are responsible for killing Ana . But to learn from this we must explore if the relentless bullying of Ana contributed in any way to her being the target . She was demeaned and isolated and set apart . The boys saw her as an object to dispose of .

The school were pre warned by the mother that Ana was vulnerable . A staff member had told her she was worried about Anas transition to Secondary school , the mother told the school this
So what measures were in place to protect this young girl ?
Of course the connection is there and of course it needs looking at and exploring

Of course it does but that’s not what’s happening here. People still seem to be intent on blaming everyone but A&B as if they are two innocent little boys who were let down by their families, the school and the state.

pjohnson · 20-06-2019 07:30AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No excuse for lawless vigilante action and acting like an unruly mob - anger and revenge fantasies won’t help anyone.

martingriff wrote: »

So leave it to an uncontrolled mob then? What if some "concerned" person decides to act on one of these and attack innocents. Who would you blame then

The would be no innocents targeted if "justice" wasnt so concerned about protecting them. Only the murderers would face consequences then. Keeping it secret just leads to chinese whispers and false innocent people caught up in it.

martingriff · 20-06-2019 07:30AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Absolutely the two boys are responsible for killing Ana . But to learn from this we must explore if the relentless bullying of Ana contributed in any way to her being the target . She was demeaned and isolated and set apart . The boys saw her as an object to dispose of .

The school were pre warned by the mother that Ana was vulnerable . A staff member had told her she was worried about Anas transition to Secondary school , the mother told the school this
So what measures were in place to protect this young girl ?
Of course the connection is there and of course it needs looking at and exploring

What you described here is bullying and this has to be tackled in its whole and not just in the small scope of this killing

pjohnson · 20-06-2019 07:32AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course it does but that’s not what’s happening here. People still seem to be intent on blaming everyone but A&B as if they are two innocent little boys who were let down by their families, the school and the state.

I havent seen anyone (outside those wanting to protect the murderers ID) try to downplay what they did. People are just attributing additional blame onto others who did nothing to help Ana. You seem very concerned about excusing everyone else.

TheAsYLuMkeY · 20-06-2019 07:33AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I agree with 1 and 3 but 2 is completely unfair.

Why this need to blame everyone but two little thugs who are actually responsible?

My first line says jail the two of them for life, how is that not blaming them for this?

martingriff wrote: »

1) 100% agree

2) what will this achieve

3) very hard to do with VPNs etc would love it

Point two: wake parents up around the rest of the country that their inaction to safeguard their children from this exposure has consequences for them and their children.

Point three: If you dont actually have a physical device that can actually connect to the internet, VPN's mean nothing.
(In other words dont give them a laptop or 'Smartphone')

martingriff · 20-06-2019 07:38AM

pjohnson wrote: »

The would be no innocents targeted if "justice" wasnt so concerned about protecting them. Only the murderers would face consequences then. Keeping it secret just leads to chinese whispers and false innocent people caught up in it.

They are facing the consequences they were found guilty if you have forgotten. They will be going to jail for a long time (not long enough). What will knowing there name mean. The only person who should be known and remembered is Ana

gozunda · 20-06-2019 07:40AM

CityRoad wrote: »

I have been following this thread for a few days and although I have not read every post, I want to make a couple of points as I know some of the details of the background. I will not put the case at risk, I do not know the names or have any information on the boys or the family and I take my cue from the local community who have done a sterling job in waiting for the case to be tried and not risking it in anyway. I am torn about the confidentiality aspect, because I believe it follows the rehabilitation model of justice and I am not sure that some can be rehabilitated.

I mention the information as some think there may be non national element to it (there wasn't, they were good Irish boys!), that there is mental illness, that there is coercion by one on the other or any nonsense that the jury got this wrong. They did not.

1. Boy A & B were bullies at the local school, I know this as they bullied a child of a friend of mine constantly before the murder, so it could have been someone I know and love in the grave, instead of poor Ana. These boys worked as a bullying team, one is not more innocent than the other.

2. There are no learning issues, the school did not consider them to be problems in anyway whatsoever. There is no mental illness, there are no special ed needs, this is who they are.

3. Anyone that was their target was isolated by the others, including the child I know. It is not pleasant but it seems it was the only viable solution for the other kids.

My worry now is my friend's child and the long term effects, like survivors guilt.

In regards to the principal and counsellor at the local school they should be sacked, there is alot of negligence there, I would love to see some litigation or an inquiry on that.

If they are both mentally ill it's a folie a deux, if not it is joint enterprise, you cannot deliver someone to their death and claim innocence.

The Gardai did an amazing job in talking to the kids and handling the case.

The only mystery is the unknown DNA on Ana's body, but don't worry he'll strike again.

By that do you mean that other children in the school were isolating the bullied children to protect themselves from the attentions of these bullies?

pjohnson · 20-06-2019 07:41AM

martingriff wrote: »

They are facing the consequences they were found guilty if you have forgotten. They will be going to jail for a long time (not long enough). What will knowing there name mean. The only person who should be known and remembered is Ana

Well thats acceptable then I guess they can just live happily ever after then get on with their lives as if they never did anything.

20-06-2019 07:41AM

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

My first line says jail the two of them for life, how is that not blaming them for this?

Point two: wake parents up around the rest of the country that their inaction to safeguard their children from this exposure has consequences for them and their children.

Point three: If you dont actually have a physical device that can actually connect to the internet, VPN's mean nothing.
(In other words dont give them a laptop or 'Smartphone')

Such BULL****. Put resources into rooting out bullying and children who have psychopathic tendencies FIRST. As the dad of 2 daughters who were bullied or at least it was attempted, this is what we need to tackle.

You can filter porn, horror films and romance novels but none of that will make a blind bit of difference.

I often wonder is this a cover for people who mercilessly bullied people themselves or see their kids doing it but say "ah sure it was the porn, I'm a good person."

martingriff · 20-06-2019 07:42AM

pjohnson wrote: »

The would be no innocents targeted if "justice" wasnt so concerned about protecting them. Only the murderers would face consequences then. Keeping it secret just leads to chinese whispers and false innocent people caught up in it.

Wait a second did you just say it's okay if innocent are targeted and it's not the mobs fault?!!! Unbelievable if anyone is hurt due to false info given by some concerned person then the person who did it and the concerned person should be held responsible

Dyr · 20-06-2019 07:43AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Absolutely the two boys are responsible for killing Ana . But to learn from this we must explore if the relentless bullying of Ana contributed in any way to her being the target . She was demeaned and isolated and set apart . The boys saw her as an object to dispose of .

Two psychos looking for a victim chose the most vulnerable, good looking girl that they knew. Lesson learned, unless you're like Ruth Coppinger and want to drag some poxy agenda into everything regardless.

20-06-2019 07:44AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The school were pre warned by the mother that Ana was vulnerable . A staff member had told her she was worried about Anas transition to Secondary school , the mother told the school this
So what measures were in place to protect this young girl ?
Of course the connection is there and of course it needs looking at and exploring

Has the principal of her school faced any questions from authorities or the media? Did they try to deal with the bullying.

brendanwalsh · 20-06-2019 07:45AM

CityRoad wrote: »

I have been following this thread for a few days and although I have not read

The only mystery is the unknown DNA on Ana's body, but don't worry he'll strike again.

Is this correct ? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere that there was unknown dna on ana ?
Are you suggesting a 3rd party was involvd?

Did boys A parents try to get him out of the country??

pjohnson · 20-06-2019 07:48AM

martingriff wrote: »

Wait a second did you just say it's okay if innocent are targeted and it's not the mobs fault?!!! Unbelievable if anyone is hurt due to false info given by some concerned person then the person who did it and the concerned person should be held responsible

Your comprehension is not working. I meant its inevitable there will be mistaken identity when they bend over backwards to protect the murderers. If they weren't trying to hide their ID and just made it public officially then no innocent could possibly be attacked by a mob.

Its misinformation that causes those attacks. Misinformation is caused by the gardai tryna hide the actual information.

martingriff · 20-06-2019 07:48AM

pjohnson wrote: »

Well thats acceptable then I guess they can just live happily ever after then get on with their lives as if they never did anything.

Who says they should I think they should be throw in jail and the keys lost. Pray tell what will having there pic out there, there name, there parents will do.The only person deserves my thought is Ana and not those 2 things

Yurt2 · 20-06-2019 07:49AM

If their names were general public knowledge, guaranteed someone else would be harmed - probably a family member of the two convicted via vigilante mob. Not that they did a particularly good job raising their children, but they deserve to have their anonymity preserved. They're genuinely in a dangerous situation one would feel such is the heightened levels of public anger, anxiety and confusion about the case.

I was young at the time, so I only vaguely remember the James Bulger case; but I do recall seeing the crowds outside the courthouse baying for blood. Liverpool was ready to explode around then, and the media had an awful lot to do with stoking public anger.

martingriff · 20-06-2019 07:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Has the principal of her school faced any questions from authorities or the media? Did they try to deal with the bullying.

Probably called in the kids and parents had a talk. Parents go not ours surely. Kids put on a good display. Principle kept an eye out but other then that not much they can do

martingriff · 20-06-2019 07:57AM

pjohnson wrote: »

Your comprehension is not working. I meant its inevitable there will be mistaken identity when they bend over backwards to protect the murderers. If they weren't trying to hide their ID and just made it public officially then no innocent could possibly be attacked by a mob.

Its misinformation that causes those attacks. Misinformation is caused by the gardai tryna hide the actual information.

No misinformation is the responsibility of those who spread it and no one.The gardai are doing there job as the law says let's not blame this for that

weldoninhio · 20-06-2019 07:57AM

tuxy wrote: »

His DNA(semen) was on her dead body. They would have found and convicted boy A under almost every circumstance I can think of.

Really? By all accounts Boy A was also tall and strong being male I don't see why he wouldn't have been able to overpower her, especially when he had planned it out.

This isn't CSI Ireland. We don't have a vast semen database. They wouldn't have gotten a match if they didn't know who to test.

donkeykong5 · 20-06-2019 08:00AM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

TBH I personally will give this a week from now, and then it will all move on.

We will all forget it soon enough, but the parents of Ana will never be able to forget.

I never forgot about James bulger. And I will never forget about poor innocent Ana either.

Shanotheslayer · 20-06-2019 08:01AM

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

In what regard?

We survived perfectly well before the advent of 'Smartphones', how about the below,

No minors legally allowed to own one, have unsupervised access to internet.

Let’s not be distracted from the point of what I am saying.

Children can be perfectly happy without Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter and all that other bo**ox etc.

Control of access to these platforms should be the same as it always was with Films etc. that were 18+, damn difficult to obtain and not permitted by parents until, you are over 16 or even 18.

The internet is a rabbit hole of the worst of humanity if you want to go looking for it, children should not be allowed to 'Surf it' (Another cool term applied to make it sound cool and not threatening)

The good far out weighs the bad. There's teenage tech millionaires that created apps etc.

mcgovern · 20-06-2019 08:02AM

Yurt! wrote: »

If their names were general public knowledge, guaranteed someone else would be harmed - probably a family member of the two convicted via vigilante mob. Not that they did a particularly good job raising their children, but they deserve to have their anonymity preserved. They're genuinely in a dangerous situation one would feel such is the heightened levels of public anger, anxiety and confusion about the case.

I was young at the time, so I only vaguely remember the James Bulger case; but I do recall seeing the crowds outside the courthouse baying for blood. Liverpool was ready to explode around then, and the media had an awful lot to do with stoking public anger.

I doubt a mob is going to come up from the other side of the country. Their names are well known in the area. They had been still been living here - at least up until the trial started - and largely have been left alone.

TheAsYLuMkeY · 20-06-2019 08:05AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Such BULL****. Put resources into rooting out bullying and children who have psychopathic tendencies FIRST. ."

Children dont naturally have psychopathic tendencies, they develop them in certain ways, one of those being exposure to inappropriate content.

Let me ask you, how do you think these boys turned into such twisted f**king monsters?

Overexposure to Tom & Jerry with loving home and upbringing?

I would hazard a guess, uncontrolled access to all manner of disturbing imagery, possibly f**ked up online video games and parents that didnt give two f**ks.

Remove all of the above and what do you think could possibly have changed?

gozunda · 20-06-2019 08:07AM

Yurt! wrote: »

If their names were general public knowledge, guaranteed someone else would be harmed - probably a family member of the two convicted via vigilante mob. Not that they did a particularly good job raising their children, but they deserve to have their anonymity preserved. They're genuinely in a dangerous situation one would feel such is the heightened levels of public anger, anxiety and confusion about the case.

I was young at the time, so I only vaguely remember the James Bulger case; but I do recall seeing the crowds outside the courthouse baying for blood. Liverpool was ready to explode around then, and the media had an awful lot to do with stoking public anger.

Seriously? That's rubbish. We are not in Liverpool.

Yurt2 · 20-06-2019 08:08AM

mcgovern wrote: »

I doubt a mob is going to come up from the other side of the country. Their names are well known in the area. They had been still been living here - at least up until the trial started - and largely have been left alone.

I still hold that naming them would prompt a free-for-all. Perhaps the people of Lucan don't want to see pitchforks in their own community, but there is a definite element that would seek to harness public anger and cause scenes if the names were more widely known.

iamwhoiam · 20-06-2019 08:08AM

Bambi wrote: »

Two psychos looking for a victim chose the most vulnerable, good looking girl that they knew. Lesson learned, unless you're like Ruth Coppinger and want to drag some poxy agenda into everything regardless.

get a grip . I have no agenda except to explore reasons and hope we all learn lessons . Yes she was vulnerable and she was also isolated by a group and had no friends .Of course it is to be looked at if it was a factor .

Yurt2 · 20-06-2019 08:08AM

gozunda wrote: »

Seriously?

Yes seriously. Vegans in aisle 5, repeat, vegans in aisle 5.

Penn · 20-06-2019 08:09AM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Is this correct ? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere that there was unknown dna on ana ?
Are you suggesting a 3rd party was involvd?

From what someone earlier in the thread said, it seems the unknown DNA didn't belong to Boy A, but it was also too small of a sample to test against others including Boy B. So it may be Boy B but couldn't be fully tested or used as evidence.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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