Garda Apology

Yurt! wrote: »

Come off of it, what possible agency did this woman enjoy when we know the forces that were pitted against her on the threat of losing her job?

I'd have some sympathy for your point of view if we were having this discussion in 1984, then we could at least admit you were a man of your time. But you're trying to peddle this line in 2019, knowing what we know.

As far as I can discern, you're trying to say this woman shouldn't have had sex in the circumstances she was in, and the rules and culture of the time were just that; so she should have known better. Well, gold medal for you Captain Hindsight.

And what's more, you're slyly suggesting the Garda hierarchy at the time had no agency at the time themselves, they simply had to apply the opaque rules of 'discrediting the force' the way they did.

Newflash from 1985, this was a matter of controversy and debate back then too...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/intolerable-intrusion-the-1985-coverage-of-majella-moynihan-s-story-1.3928248

easy there now ted

lets conservatively (ironic lol) say that its two dozen times on this thread that someone has - correctly- made the distinction between agreeing with the times that were in it and acknowledging that they were nevertheless the times that were in it.

I'll thank you for the simple courtesy of not suggesting again that i (or the majority of people you're scolding in this thread) are stating that this was a sequence of events we would agree with now or are looking back on approvingly. to continue to do so is simply no more than soapboxing from you and im so not here for it.

the agency is set out numerous times. you have set it out, in the bare facts yourself, above. if we take it all as simply and as presented, it was job or child and she chose job. im sick enough saying its not an easy decision and ill stop making these sops to subtlety now seeing as you are still addressing me as if im commissioner x from 1980. my posts in the thread are clear without consistently needing to be saved from your bald misrepresentation.

you havent once acknowledged that these were known terms and conditions of employment. of society, in a broader sense.

"as far as you can discern" - you can take a long walk if this is your level. i take no position on sex, extramarital sex, unprotected extramarital sex in the society thats in it and if you could see your way to withdrawing your snide remark id appreciate it and be pleasantly surprised.

if i were to take a position on unprotected extramarital sex in her circumstances at the time id say it was ****ing risky and risks arent called risks because all the outcomes are mighty craic. youll ignore that point we can be sure.

the only reference i can be said to have made to the agency of anyone representing the force in 1984 is a post earlier in the thread where i believe i doubted the capacity of many to again use a bit of subtlety of thought to make a distinction between personal morals and a role acting in a non-discretionary manner.

do i wish they had done differently, yep surely i do (and sick enough having to say it as a performance for you and the other one), do i suspect they could have done differently, yep probably i do (with a probable cost to themselves, perhaps, at whatever level of the chain they were at), do i think it likely, in 1984, in the circumstances we have already set out ad nauseum that anyone with an ounce of cop-on would expect them to do so nine times out of ten? I don't.

the performatively outraged handwringing will chap your skin. if you must do it, dont wail at me while doing it please.

Mrsmum wrote: »

Could we cope with the horror of what would come out !

I see where you're coming from but I still think we'd be a much better society for having the courage to examine our history like that. Much better. I am always impressed at the honesty which the Germans have had about WWII and their museums are thoroughly admirable in their courage about this past. It's not as if the poor in other European societies did not endure local variants of what the Irish poor endured - although there is certainly a much greater emphasis on social history in France, for instance, than there is in Ireland, where our very conservative historians infamously merely aped the English historical research culture which focuses on the history of the political elite and their wars. Historical research in Ireland is still suffering from this emphasis.

And you can be sure that after 10 or 20 years of research into the social histories of these homes etc, we will also have more balance, hearing stories of good things which were done by good people in those years and have a better understanding of how Ireland compared internationally. It all beats some eejit with an affected accent musing about some esoteric letter written by some waffler in 1932/1832/1732 that has already been examiner by other like-minded people - and being paid by the state to do so. Then again, that's a lovely, safe history for the state to spend its research funding on.

Judging by this article, she’ll have the children’s home and the maternity hospital in her sights next! https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ex-garda-they-no-longer-have-a-hold-over-me-today-im-free-931293.html